Opinion The case for Harves

Jughead77

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Sep 25, 2017
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In the last 20 yrs we've had,

- the tv personality (Watson)
- the dual premiership coach (Blight)
- the left field appointment (Thomas)
- 3 highly rated untried coaches (Lyon, Watters, Richo)

None of them have brought us to the promised land. So why not a favourite son like Harvs, or even Lenny? Look at how their current teams are going, see their influence there. I'm all for it. Let's not die wondering.
 

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Saintbloke

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Apr 26, 2015
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Harvs may have a bit of Jeans about him IMO. Just a pity a few of our big names wouldn't put their egos aside and get behind Watters and push to the finals again, as we could have got back into the eight if they had pulled their fingers out and played for the club. Now as a result we have had over 6 years of stagnation.
 

Cornish

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Harvs may have a bit of Jeans about him IMO. Just a pity a few of our big names wouldn't put their egos aside and get behind Watters and push to the finals again, as we could have got back into the eight if they had pulled their fingers out and played for the club. Now as a result we have had over 6 years of stagnation.
Watters wanted to run the whole football department, they told him Pelican was in charge, so he cracked the sads and went on a delusional rampage. Watters laid on his own sword, thought he was bigger than the club, the players couldn't stand him or his ego, most were glad to see the butt end of him.
 

Saintbloke

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Watters wanted to run the whole football department, they told him Pelican was in charge, so he cracked the sads and went on a delusional rampage. Watters laid on his own sword, thought he was bigger than the club, the players couldn't stand him or his ego, most were glad to see the butt end of him.
I think though that in true St Kilda fashion- some of our bigger names played for themselves and not the club over that period, and that's one of the reasons we have had little success. Compare to Jeans, who really had the players in the palm of his hands when he got us the premiership, and they played for him and the club, not busy backstabbing and cracking the sads to whoever would listen.

I would like to see Harvs get the gig as Saints coach, and I feel he may be a successful coach.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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Sep 14, 2008
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Harvs may have a bit of Jeans about him IMO. Just a pity a few of our big names wouldn't put their egos aside and get behind Watters and push to the finals again, as we could have got back into the eight if they had pulled their fingers out and played for the club. Now as a result we have had over 6 years of stagnation.
Watters was a disaster that had nothing to do with how the senior players acted. It's pretty poor form IMO to throw the blame at them.

If it was simply the players and St Kilda being St Kilda then why hasn't Watters even got a look in since?
 

Cornish

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I think though that in true St Kilda fashion- some of our bigger names played for themselves and not the club over that period, and that's one of the reasons we have had little success. Compare to Jeans, who really had the players in the palm of his hands when he got us the premiership, and they played for him and the club, not busy backstabbing and cracking the sads to whoever would listen.

I would like to see Harvs get the gig as Saints coach, and I feel he may be a successful coach.
There wasn't too many of the old school left and he treated the senior players with contempt, at one stage telling them they had no talent, he got rid of BJ and Dal, from what i was told had Roo Chips and Monty on the table, with Kosi i think Blake and Tip Rat told to retire. The players had very little voice in his sacking, it was all down to him not doing what the club wanted but what he wanted to do.
 

The Punter

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Voss and Hird were both hired with minimal experience, Buckley had limited experience (assistant at one club which was the club he ended up coaching). Harvey doesn't really qualify under any of those (11 years in the system, three clubs, coached all areas of the ground).

You also have to look at what Collingwood have and what they are achieving with it. Yes, they have De Goey, Stephenson and Grundy on the list, all drafted by Collingwood under the current regime and stars. But their list is otherwise very unconventional and motley: of their Grand Final team last year, Crisp, Varcoe, Howe, Hoskin-Elliott, Mayne & Greenwood were all essentially give aways from other clubs, Mihocek, Langdon and Cox were mature age recruits, Josh Thomas had been out of the game for two years suspended, Aish was much unloved, and Goldsack and Maynard aren't stars at all.

Now does that sound familar? Yes, they have a deep midfield group, but we don't lack for depth (all fit we have Steven, Gresham, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Steele, Hannebury, Clark, Newnes, Billings, Phillips, Paton & Sinclair). The defences are pretty comparable in terms of personnel - while Darcy Moore may be a better intercept mark than any of our players, we'd have the next best three of those between the two teams (Carlisle, Battle and Wilkie).

The glaring deficiency comparing us to Collingwood is medium-sized match-winning forwards. There just aren't too many of them running around and Collingwood have two of them.

I don't see an obvious reason to those not ITK why we would put a line through Harvey as a potential candidate for senior coach.
 

StCicatriz

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Watters was a disaster that had nothing to do with how the senior players acted. It's pretty poor form IMO to throw the blame at them.

If it was simply the players and St Kilda being St Kilda then why hasn't Watters even got a look in since?
you don't get a look in if you don't apply

has been approached, but not interested in coaching anymore. has a media gig instead.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Voss and Hird were both hired with minimal experience, Buckley had limited experience (assistant at one club which was the club he ended up coaching). Harvey doesn't really qualify under any of those (11 years in the system, three clubs, coached all areas of the ground).

You also have to look at what Collingwood have and what they are achieving with it. Yes, they have De Goey, Stephenson and Grundy on the list, all drafted by Collingwood under the current regime and stars. But their list is otherwise very unconventional and motley: of their Grand Final team last year, Crisp, Varcoe, Howe, Hoskin-Elliott, Mayne & Greenwood were all essentially give aways from other clubs, Mihocek, Langdon and Cox were mature age recruits, Josh Thomas had been out of the game for two years suspended, Aish was much unloved, and Goldsack and Maynard aren't stars at all.

Now does that sound familar? Yes, they have a deep midfield group, but we don't lack for depth (all fit we have Steven, Gresham, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Steele, Hannebury, Clark, Newnes, Billings, Phillips, Paton & Sinclair). The defences are pretty comparable in terms of personnel - while Darcy Moore may be a better intercept mark than any of our players, we'd have the next best three of those between the two teams (Carlisle, Battle and Wilkie).

The glaring deficiency comparing us to Collingwood is medium-sized match-winning forwards. There just aren't too many of them running around and Collingwood have two of them.

I don't see an obvious reason to those not ITK why we would put a line through Harvey as a potential candidate for senior coach.
I wouldn't put a line through him, he'd come under the same consideration as every other assistant coach.
Which is different from targeting him. WOuld be quite the co-incidence if he happened to be best available.
 

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The Punter

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I wouldn't put a line through him, he'd come under the same consideration as every other assistant coach.
Which is different from targeting him. WOuld be quite the co-incidence if he happened to be best available.
He's as likely as anyone else, so I think it would be as much of a coincidence as anyone else.
 

CaptainRisky

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Best available after an exhaustive search, adhering to a valid and credible process. Nothing less. No "GT" process or random appointment of a so called Messiah, eg. Mad Malcolm or Timid. If Harves blitzes the process, why not?
Voss and Hird were both hired with minimal experience, Buckley had limited experience (assistant at one club which was the club he ended up coaching). Harvey doesn't really qualify under any of those (11 years in the system, three clubs, coached all areas of the ground).

You also have to look at what Collingwood have and what they are achieving with it. Yes, they have De Goey, Stephenson and Grundy on the list, all drafted by Collingwood under the current regime and stars. But their list is otherwise very unconventional and motley: of their Grand Final team last year, Crisp, Varcoe, Howe, Hoskin-Elliott, Mayne & Greenwood were all essentially give aways from other clubs, Mihocek, Langdon and Cox were mature age recruits, Josh Thomas had been out of the game for two years suspended, Aish was much unloved, and Goldsack and Maynard aren't stars at all.

Now does that sound familar? Yes, they have a deep midfield group, but we don't lack for depth (all fit we have Steven, Gresham, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Steele, Hannebury, Clark, Newnes, Billings, Phillips, Paton & Sinclair). The defences are pretty comparable in terms of personnel - while Darcy Moore may be a better intercept mark than any of our players, we'd have the next best three of those between the two teams (Carlisle, Battle and Wilkie).

The glaring deficiency comparing us to Collingwood is medium-sized match-winning forwards. There just aren't too many of them running around and Collingwood have two of them.

I don't see an obvious reason to those not ITK why we would put a line through Harvey as a potential candidate for senior coach.
Pretty fair write up but not sure Hoskin-Elliott was a give away and you would think Howe would be the equal of any of our backs if not better
 

The Punter

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Pretty fair write up but not sure Hoskin-Elliott was a give away and you would think Howe would be the equal of any of our backs if not better
I obviously completely forgot Howe in my defensive write-up for some reason.

On the other hand, Hoskin-Elliott was traded for a future second. We give those out like butter menthols in flu season.
 

borderbarry

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Sep 10, 2006
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Alan Jeans is our longest serving coach. Apart from our only premiership he took us to grand finals in 1965 and 1971. Ross lyon is our next most successful coach taking us to grand finals in 2009 and 2010. Richardson is in his sixth year, about to become our second longest serving coach after Jeans, and has taken us nowhere. There should be a Royal Commission into why he is still there! Ridiculous!
 

VDS66

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I would hate to see us speak about Harves the way we’ve spoken about Richo these last 18 months. And that would be inevitable - when we’re in the back half of 2021 season and looking at a finish between 10th and 14th, we’ll be calling for blood again. I reckon our new coach is destined for failure with our list.
Sadly, it will happen and a club legend will be dissed judging from the comments made in this place.
 

VDS66

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Voss and Hird were both hired with minimal experience, Buckley had limited experience (assistant at one club which was the club he ended up coaching). Harvey doesn't really qualify under any of those (11 years in the system, three clubs, coached all areas of the ground).

You also have to look at what Collingwood have and what they are achieving with it. Yes, they have De Goey, Stephenson and Grundy on the list, all drafted by Collingwood under the current regime and stars. But their list is otherwise very unconventional and motley: of their Grand Final team last year, Crisp, Varcoe, Howe, Hoskin-Elliott, Mayne & Greenwood were all essentially give aways from other clubs, Mihocek, Langdon and Cox were mature age recruits, Josh Thomas had been out of the game for two years suspended, Aish was much unloved, and Goldsack and Maynard aren't stars at all.

Now does that sound familar? Yes, they have a deep midfield group, but we don't lack for depth (all fit we have Steven, Gresham, Ross, Dunstan, Acres, Steele, Hannebury, Clark, Newnes, Billings, Phillips, Paton & Sinclair). The defences are pretty comparable in terms of personnel - while Darcy Moore may be a better intercept mark than any of our players, we'd have the next best three of those between the two teams (Carlisle, Battle and Wilkie).

The glaring deficiency comparing us to Collingwood is medium-sized match-winning forwards. There just aren't too many of them running around and Collingwood have two of them.

I don't see an obvious reason to those not ITK why we would put a line through Harvey as a potential candidate for senior coach.
I wouldn't, but if want to see a really good director of coaching or a senior, senior assistant working with him for the first few years.

Whoever we get, the club needs to give them a green light to do what has to be done. No caveats, no restrictions.
 

The Filth

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Please leave Harvey alone.
Doing a great job at Collingwood.
Hate to see the Saints chew up and spit out another good assistant as senior coach like has happened with Watters, Richardson etc...
Take a tried and true experienced coach please. Get your list, development and skills sorted out.
Would gladly take Richardson back as an Assistant/development coach at the Pies once you've finished with him..
 
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mightymalaka

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Wow the coach with DalSanto, Riewoldt, Goddard , Montagna , Maguire, Harvey, Hayes, Koschitski , Fisher...is ahead??
and when GT tried to play a defensive flood it was laughable and unsuccessful.
Not sure a couple of narrow preliminary final losses qualify as laughable and unsuccessful!
That description has to be reserved for what the current coach has 6 years to sort out! And not one bloody leader developed in all that time
Outside of Geary who i dare say learnt most of his strong ethic in his early years under Lyon!

Say what you will about GT but laughable and unsuccessful are def not it!
Did more developing of leaders for this club than anyone else in all my time!
All this with a prez at the time who openly admits was out of control and actively trying to stab him in the back
As opposed to the full backing Richo has had for his whole tenure...Yeah stability really works when your mired in
Underachieving bland sh!tness!

And Collingwood can gladly have their plant back at the club if they rate him so highly and i would like to add
That they should leave our Harvey alone. Instead of indoctrinating him with their filthy prison bar system!
The absolute gall of it all! Fancy being lectured to by that mob about one of our legends!
 

VDS66

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Please leave Harvey alone.
Doing a great job at Collingwood.
Hate to see the Saints chew up and spit out another good assistant as senior coach like has happened with Watters, Richardson etc...
Take a tried and true experienced coach please. Get your list, development and skills sorted out.
Would gladly take Richardson back as an Assistant/development coach at the Pies once you've finished with him..
Just like Watters?

When did you take him back?

Just like you spat out Malthouse straight after a flag?
 
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