Opinion The case for Harves

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 4, 2011
19,581
49,603
AFL Club
St Kilda
Oh it was that sort of turtle. The result of a shart?
Sharts are like a liquid jack-in-the-box.

Once the lid pops, it's all over (the place).

Turtles poke their head out then suck it back in.

Mind you, the gents was upstairs so you could say i took my s**t to a whole new level.

Classy conversation. Who started it?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,006
11,185
AFL Club
St Kilda
It is an critical part of coaching. Being able to engage with and galvansie young men. Harvey reminds me of Allan Border. An icon but a man of action not words. Just don't think he has it in him tbh.
not from my experiance ... Harves is the type of guy players listen too .. he doesnt comand the attention as guys like Roo did where the instant he enters the room the guys naturally sat up and paid attention Harves strength from what i have seen is more in the small chats he has, he is not the guy standing infront of the white board spraying spit as he dictates what he wants he is the guy who pulls a bloke aside and tells them what is required ...
thats the modern way with this new generation the days of the coach spray are pretty much gone its now about keeping the message clear and precise its about having the player think about the message and relating it to themselves that it sinks in. i got this issue with work where the way i give instruction to apprentices is not the way thhey would have 10 years ago, i have copped questions on my ability because my personallity is out side of the norm of the people who have done my role before but the results speak for themselves my approach works and works well where guys with the older approach have been hitting brick walls with this generation ... its about adapting and i reckon Harves is really good at that
 

saintscott

Team Captain
Jun 2, 2015
547
921
AFL Club
St Kilda
Harves is my all time favourite player. The romantic in me would love to see him take over and lead us to the second premiership.

With that said i would be shattered if it didn't work out. We don't have a great record with departing coaches, i would hate for that relationship to sour.

We are not a club with a massive membership base and strong financial position. While other positions at the club can pick that up, at this stage of our journey i feel like we need someone who is a strong media performer and a bit of a salesman.

Harves probably lacks in that area. If he was walking into 50k members, debt free and strong sponsorship i would be more bouyant about his prospects. Also a list that was capable of finals or top 4. Who knows, as a favourite son i might be underselling his worth, but trying to see it objectively as i idolise the guy. He doesn't exude charisma.

Maybe if he were coupled with someone like roos (even though i think he is a total flog) or someone similar with lots of presence, it could work.

For where we are at now, i still think Ratts is the man to take us go that next step and have us playing finals. History will show what he did with Carlton was actually very good. Our list is average. I think he can get the most out of average. Hopefully with a game plan that is better to watch than currently, as excitement brings in crowds and helps with some of the prime timeslots, increasing exposure.

We don't need to bottom out again to secure the talent required for the next step. A lot of our early picks are coming up to that stage where they should start to peak and be consistent. Plus pick 1 or 2 doesn't guarantee you a star. Concussion or not, mccartin is an example of this (even without it i don't think paddy was ever going to be a top 5 forward in the game). Many of the top draftees of the past 10 years have come from mid range picks. O think we would all be pretty happy with rozee, duursma, butter for instance. Or oli florent.

In any case it is a lottery. I would prefer we do a hawthorn and trade for players like burgoyne, mitchell etc, we have the salary cap. But to be attractive we need to be playing finals or thereabouts and have larger crowds. Part of that is winning more, part of it is increasing the membership base.

I think the hanneberry trade was genius in terms of profile. He was bloody good last week too. If we can't get our number one targets this year, i am up for similar activity to boost our profile and appear more attractive.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,006
11,185
AFL Club
St Kilda
Harves is my all time favourite player. The romantic in me would love to see him take over and lead us to the second premiership.

With that said i would be shattered if it didn't work out. We don't have a great record with departing coaches, i would hate for that relationship to sour.

We are not a club with a massive membership base and strong financial position. While other positions at the club can pick that up, at this stage of our journey i feel like we need someone who is a strong media performer and a bit of a salesman.

Harves probably lacks in that area. If he was walking into 50k members, debt free and strong sponsorship i would be more bouyant about his prospects. Also a list that was capable of finals or top 4. Who knows, as a favourite son i might be underselling his worth, but trying to see it objectively as i idolise the guy. He doesn't exude charisma.

Maybe if he were coupled with someone like roos (even though i think he is a total flog) or someone similar with lots of presence, it could work.

For where we are at now, i still think Ratts is the man to take us go that next step and have us playing finals. History will show what he did with Carlton was actually very good. Our list is average. I think he can get the most out of average. Hopefully with a game plan that is better to watch than currently, as excitement brings in crowds and helps with some of the prime timeslots, increasing exposure.

We don't need to bottom out again to secure the talent required for the next step. A lot of our early picks are coming up to that stage where they should start to peak and be consistent. Plus pick 1 or 2 doesn't guarantee you a star. Concussion or not, mccartin is an example of this (even without it i don't think paddy was ever going to be a top 5 forward in the game). Many of the top draftees of the past 10 years have come from mid range picks. O think we would all be pretty happy with rozee, duursma, butter for instance. Or oli florent.

In any case it is a lottery. I would prefer we do a hawthorn and trade for players like burgoyne, mitchell etc, we have the salary cap. But to be attractive we need to be playing finals or thereabouts and have larger crowds. Part of that is winning more, part of it is increasing the membership base.

I think the hanneberry trade was genius in terms of profile. He was bloody good last week too. If we can't get our number one targets this year, i am up for similar activity to boost our profile and appear more attractive.
all good points but i will point out the EVERY afl coach inevidably ends up sacked its not just a St Kilda thing (although historically we pull the trigger earlier than most clubs ) so the idea that we dont take Harves because we might have to eventually sack him i think is not really an issue because thats just a fact of life..

as for selling the club .. i do agree we need to grow our membership the thing is i think St Kilda people are sick to death with the snake oil salesman approach, we have had Pelchen selling us a dream , we had Blight selling us on his successs, we had Watson selling us on his media profile, Watters was our little cudddly coach who was going to make us loveable again after lyon locked everyone out of his bubble... the "get rich quick" scams i dont think will float with us anymore, no one is going to fall for it the club can hype it up as much as they like but the sour taste of the road to 2020 plan is still fresh in thousands of our fans im not sure there is a salesman out there who could turn that around ... the thing with Harvey is he hits our fans on an emotional level its not salesmanship its not selling a dream its a guy we all idolised a guy who for a period of darkness was our one shining light coming back to our club, there is no promise of success its a favorite son coming back to where he belongs, we never got the chance for Barks to do that and i think especially our fans from the 70's and 80s thats something of sadness that we never got that, Harves returning and leading our team i think would inspire many lapsed fans to come back as members it would secure members teetering on the edge of leaving to come back and i think that is the way we need to sell our club... marketing campagins, media spokesmen, glitz and glamour has never worked for us so there is no reason it would work this time either but nostalgia and targeting the emotional connections we have for this club i think is the key to us becoming bigger and better ..

Ratts does bring a lot of strong points but are we really sure his influence has made an impact ? yes we have improved since he came on but how much of that is from him? it could be the influence of Slater (who has left a mark within the club) , it could be the other assistants , it could even be Richo?? we dont really know for sure the thing with Ratts is his experiance as an assistant isnt that much better than that of Harves but without the emotional connection .. perfect world stuff we get harves and keep Ratts so we have the best of both worlds
 

stfan

Premiership Player
Mar 12, 2008
3,032
3,133
Melb
AFL Club
St Kilda
The next best for us isn’t someone who has done the rounds before.

Statistics suggest if they’ve coached before, they’re further from a flag than a first timer.

I’d be looking closely at the Beveridge type left field options,
Why was Beveridge a left field option?


Prior to becoming the Dog's coach he was involved in 3 Premierships in off=field positions, 2 as as an assistant coach.

Beveridge had two years as a player development manager at Collingwood from 2009–10. 2010 Premiership.

After having a year off, Beveridge joined Hawthorn in 2012 as an assistant coach specialising in working with the club's defence. Beveridge left Hawthorn after the 2014 season . 2 Premierships

That would not seem to be left field to me.
 

jwikked

Club Legend
Sep 20, 2009
2,087
5,029
NSW
AFL Club
St Kilda
Why was Beveridge a left field option?


Prior to becoming the Dog's coach he was involved in 3 Premierships in off=field positions, 2 as as an assistant coach.

Beveridge had two years as a player development manager at Collingwood from 2009–10. 2010 Premiership.

After having a year off, Beveridge joined Hawthorn in 2012 as an assistant coach specialising in working with the club's defence. Beveridge left Hawthorn after the 2014 season . 2 Premierships

That would not seem to be left field to me.
And to think we had him involved until the Bulldogs job came up.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

austinnn

Veteran GOP
Nov 7, 2012
4,737
13,828
France
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Bristol City FC
Hypothetical question: do you think he would have got a premiership out of us if we'd binned Richo and installed him at the time he went to the Dogs?
 

stfan

Premiership Player
Mar 12, 2008
3,032
3,133
Melb
AFL Club
St Kilda
Hypothetical question: do you think he would have got a premiership out of us if we'd binned Richo and installed him at the time he went to the Dogs?

I think that we will have been better. How much better we will never ever know.

He would have needed to have turned some of players into elite players.

Would Acres have bloomed, would Billings have stepped up more? How much better we will never ever know.
 
Last edited:

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,478
16,795
Road to Nowhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester United
If Goddard suddenly starts playing like a gun , or even like Darragh Joyce, i'll accept that Richo was crap at development.
Or if Richmond turn Weller around.
Still hanging on to the dream that Richo can develop players i see!

Good luck with that!
 

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,478
16,795
Road to Nowhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester United
Isn't the assistant coaches and development coaches that r really involved in the development of the players?
All the coaches are meant to play a part!

What gets me though is how Richo has somehow gained a reputation of being a great developer of young talent
In the last 15 years. Which i have not seen one iota of evidence to suggest this!
 

sammm

Premium Gold
Nov 15, 2000
6,757
4,439
heidelberg
AFL Club
St Kilda
All the coaches are meant to play a part!

What gets me though is how Richo has somehow gained a reputation of being a great developer of young talent
In the last 15 years. Which i have not seen one iota of evidence to suggest this!
maybe he was better at as an assistant coach coach. you spend alot of time with each of the palyers as an asisstnat, and probably not as much being head head coach.
 

Saints43

Senior List
Mar 18, 2010
155
479
Kensington
AFL Club
St Kilda
Hypothetical question: do you think he would have got a premiership out of us if we'd binned Richo and installed him at the time he went to the Dogs?
Threre seems to be 50 game bulldog players retiring every other week. Life member, premiership players.
I still can't name half their flag team.
What is the Cho equivalent of Picken to the forward line? Absolute plodder looked like a world beater.
Whereas we've managed to turn Gresham into an ok player. I'm absolutely certain that he would be a superstar at about 14 other clubs.


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
36,900
22,876
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
Still hanging on to the dream that Richo can develop players i see!

Good luck with that!
Nothing to do with a dream.
I'm saying that logic would suggest, that other clubs would take our poorly developed players and turn them round if you were right.
I'm trying to use logic in my perception rather than your idiotic Richo is the devil hysteria.
 

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,478
16,795
Road to Nowhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester United
Nothing to do with a dream.
I'm saying that logic would suggest, that other clubs would take our poorly developed players and turn them round if you were right.
I'm trying to use logic in my perception rather than your idiotic Richo is the devil hysteria.
lol 🤣
Richo is the devil hysteria! Makes a good album title! :japanesegoblin:

Hardly! Thankfully i'm sure the man himself is made of sterner stuff than some of the
Don't ruin my day apologists that seem to get their knickers in a knot whenever anyone
Has the nerve to state the obvious! 😒

I suggest you go back to your little stat book and comfort yourself with those reassuring numbers! 🤓
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
36,900
22,876
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
lol 🤣
Richo is the devil hysteria! Makes a good album title! :japanesegoblin:

Hardly! Thankfully i'm sure the man himself is made of sterner stuff than some of the
Don't ruin my day apologists that seem to get their knickers in a knot whenever anyone
Has the nerve to state the obvious! 😒

I suggest you go back to your little stat book and comfort yourself with those reassuring numbers! 🤓
Lol could you be more of an asshole if you tried?

Oh ...i need an imogee thingy..... :p
 
Top Bottom