- May 1, 2016
- 28,403
- 55,366
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Moderator
- #1
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Give me some SoapyV glass half full optimism please. We all need some right now.
Give me some SoapyV glass half full optimism please. We all need some right now.
I get the picture that the media'd love for us - the fans - to undermine the club into change. They're hitting us, in a weekend in which St Kilda (a supposed prospect for top 4) got monstered by the Tigers by 86 points, Essendon got done by 57 points, and Hawthorn got done by 50 points by Melbourne. There were worse losses this round, and there were bigger stories; Collingwood 1-4, for example.Anyone get the picture that we've undermined our own rebuild?
Just asking.
I get the picture that the media'd love for us - the fans - to undermine the club into change. They're hitting us, in a weekend in which St Kilda (a supposed prospect for top 4) got monstered by the Tigers by 86 points, Essendon got done by 57 points, and Hawthorn got done by 50 points by Melbourne. There were worse losses this round, and there were bigger stories; Collingwood 1-4, for example.
We are now famous for blinking, for acceding to media pressure. We'll move, just you watch us: we'll announce our expectations to the world at large, and if you put enough pressure on us we'll move. Don't worry about whatever we say, just keep the pressure on. Eventually, Carlton will play Essendon (in two weeks, for those counting) and if we ramp up the pressure enough and we lose, we could see the club fragment into constituent parts. And won't that be fun for the AFL establishment, the fans of other clubs, the media who need something to report!
I see our rebuild as a process, because that's what list management is. Good clubs manage to turn a poor draft hand into ones players, and can continue to renew a list going forward. Adelaide and WC don't really bottom out, because their development and talent ID is decent to very good; they don't have the advantages Sydney or Geelong do, but they more than get by. We only needed to rebuild because the entire club including the list was f’ed; we're now coming out of it, but with our reputation for undermining ourselves based on media pressure damn ******* straight they're aiming for us.
It's the narrative, not the reality. The reality is, we're in a vastly better situation than we've been in since 2012, on and off the field. We have further to travel, and we need to keep the process of turning over the list and actively managing it appropriately, and we need most desperately to not listen to the enclaves of whispers external to the club and the media reports smashing us because we're an easy target likely to react.
We need to show some organizational strength for once.
Silly stuff. We are far and away the great fail and the media has every right to come for us. Believe it or not, game commentators don't really give a s**t about poor little Carlton supporters and their feeble little sensitivities. Nor should they.I get the picture that the media'd love for us - the fans - to undermine the club into change. They're hitting us, in a weekend in which St Kilda (a supposed prospect for top 4) got monstered by the Tigers by 86 points, Essendon got done by 57 points, and Hawthorn got done by 50 points by Melbourne. There were worse losses this round, and there were bigger stories; Collingwood 1-4, for example.
We are now famous for blinking, for acceding to media pressure. We'll move, just you watch us: we'll announce our expectations to the world at large, and if you put enough pressure on us we'll move. Don't worry about whatever we say, just keep the pressure on. Eventually, Carlton will play Essendon (in two weeks, for those counting) and if we ramp up the pressure enough and we lose, we could see the club fragment into constituent parts. And won't that be fun for the AFL establishment, the fans of other clubs, the media who need something to report!
I see our rebuild as a process, because that's what list management is. Good clubs manage to turn a poor draft hand into ones players, and can continue to renew a list going forward. Adelaide and WC don't really bottom out, because their development and talent ID is decent to very good; they don't have the advantages Sydney or Geelong do, but they more than get by. We only needed to rebuild because the entire club including the list was f’ed; we're now coming out of it, but with our reputation for undermining ourselves based on media pressure damn ******* straight they're aiming for us.
It's the narrative, not the reality. The reality is, we're in a vastly better situation than we've been in since 2012, on and off the field. We have further to travel, and we need to keep the process of turning over the list and actively managing it appropriately, and we need most desperately to not listen to the enclaves of whispers external to the club and the media reports smashing us because we're an easy target likely to react.
We need to show some organizational strength for once.
I get the picture that the media'd love for us - the fans - to undermine the club into change. They're hitting us, in a weekend in which St Kilda (a supposed prospect for top 4) got monstered by the Tigers by 86 points, Essendon got done by 57 points, and Hawthorn got done by 50 points by Melbourne. There were worse losses this round, and there were bigger stories; Collingwood 1-4, for example.
We are now famous for blinking, for acceding to media pressure. We'll move, just you watch us: we'll announce our expectations to the world at large, and if you put enough pressure on us we'll move. Don't worry about whatever we say, just keep the pressure on. Eventually, Carlton will play Essendon (in two weeks, for those counting) and if we ramp up the pressure enough and we lose, we could see the club fragment into constituent parts. And won't that be fun for the AFL establishment, the fans of other clubs, the media who need something to report!
I see our rebuild as a process, because that's what list management is. Good clubs manage to turn a poor draft hand into ones players, and can continue to renew a list going forward. Adelaide and WC don't really bottom out, because their development and talent ID is decent to very good; they don't have the advantages Sydney or Geelong do, but they more than get by. We only needed to rebuild because the entire club including the list was f’ed; we're now coming out of it, but with our reputation for undermining ourselves based on media pressure damn ******* straight they're aiming for us.
It's the narrative, not the reality. The reality is, we're in a vastly better situation than we've been in since 2012, on and off the field. We have further to travel, and we need to keep the process of turning over the list and actively managing it appropriately, and we need most desperately to not listen to the enclaves of whispers external to the club and the media reports smashing us because we're an easy target likely to react.
We need to show some organizational strength for once.
How have we improved since the end of 2019?
What evidence is there that we're heading in the right direction?
This was not a 'they've got it in for us' rant. This is because, when they've brought pressure to bear in the past - with Ratts, with Malthouse, with Bolton - we've blinked. This is them doing it because they're in the interest of putting the fox in the henhouse, and seeing what happens next.Silly stuff. We are far and away the great fail and the media has every right to come for us. Believe it or not, game commentators don't really give a sh*t about poor little Carlton supporters and their feeble little sensitivities. Nor should they.
to both your messages here..This was not a 'they've got it in for us' rant. This is because, when they've brought pressure to bear in the past - with Ratts, with Malthouse, with Bolton - we've blinked. This is them doing it because they're in the interest of putting the fox in the henhouse, and seeing what happens next.
The perception is, negative press about Carlton sells, and sells much better than the self-same about Essendon or St Kilda.
Look at this board, and tell me that the majority of the posters having a good hard tantrum since the last game don't immediately respond to this stuff. Tell me that those who disagree - coming at it from the other side - don't also overreact, by publicly deriding the media and the pundits.
And I don't trust the club, precisely because they've blinked. If they were more capable of keeping the external criticism out and making what they think is the right choice - sans backroom pressure from the Mathisons et al - then I'd have more faith.
... I mean, I made a list for Moody last week.How have we improved since the end of 2019?
What evidence is there that we're heading in the right direction?
Base it on a so called full year, 2019 to 2020
This year has only just started
... I mean, I made a list for Moody last week.
We've added nigh constantly to the football department, and to recruiting. We've added a Carlton reserves side, and we're more open with what the development group is trying to do with those players. We have the players we had in 19, plus the players we've taken in the two years since: Philp and Ramsay, Durdin and Parks and Caroll, and all have put some pretty decent footy out there. We've added Martin, Williams and Fogarty, and all are contributors.
SPS's form has been patchy, but for all the criticism he's building. Dow has been misused, but is on the edge of something. LOB led the team for tackles against Richmond, and is putting together a healthy case for promotion in the twos.
We have a dedicated list management department now, not nepotism and personality based recruiting. We have a development structure with people in it that are well credentialed externally. We have broken our own membership records across three successive years. Princes Park is undergoing redevelopment, and is the home of AFLW.
Do we want to continue kicking ourselves for everything short of the Kennedy assassination? Are we done yet?
Stamos, you asked me what was genuinely different between now and then. LOB is not and was not known for his tackling predraft; it's a clear and distinct way he can put his name ahead of Newnes who is not a bit tackler. You asked for progress, I gave you progress. There's also the fact that we - you know - brought in Newnes, Martin, Williams; all players who have an argument to play wing before him, and due to their inclusion we've shifted Williamson, Setterfield and even Ed to the wing ahead of him.None of that is showing as genuine improvement on field yet though.
And LOB for example was best 22 when we went 6-5 in 2019. Leading tackles in a single loss before being dropped doesn't really demonstrate improvement.
Well Teague 2020 was not an improvement on Teague 2019 (compare apples with apples, the Bolton 11 games doesn't count). And 5 games into this year, can't see improvement either.
sells what?This was not a 'they've got it in for us' rant. This is because, when they've brought pressure to bear in the past - with Ratts, with Malthouse, with Bolton - we've blinked. This is them doing it because they're in the interest of putting the fox in the henhouse, and seeing what happens next.
The perception is, negative press about Carlton sells, and sells much better than the self-same about Essendon or St Kilda.
Look at this board, and tell me that the majority of the posters having a good hard tantrum since the last game don't immediately respond to this stuff. Tell me that those who disagree - coming at it from the other side - don't also overreact, by publicly deriding the media and the pundits.
And I don't trust the club, precisely because they've blinked. If they were more capable of keeping the external criticism out and making what they think is the right choice - sans backroom pressure from the Mathisons et al - then I'd have more faith.
Newspapers, ad revenue on TV, internet and radio. It creates and perpetuates careers.sells what?
How long should we have to wait to see improvement with the right perspective?You are basing it off a half season in 2019, a full season in 2020, and 5 games this year, maybe some perspective is needed
I have a question.How long should we have to wait to see improvement with the right perspective?
No. We at best stagnated. Went from 6-5 to 7-10.I have a question.
Can you see improvement from 2019 to 2020?