The Chinese Communist party are campaigners

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Seeds

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But the US does exist. Luckily for us its also in America's interest to have us in this region of the world so our alliance has a long way to run. If the US didn't exist or decided we weren't worth protecting we would get invaded in a matter of weeks and there's no force on the face of the earth that would stop it even if it could. Your stark raving mad if you think the UN or Nato would step in.
Funny since the un made taking land illegal the amount of involuntary border change due to invasion has dramatically collapsed. Do you just think that is a coincident? The un may not stop an invasion but it greatly reduces the motivation to invade thus China would not want to invade.


plus the current UN isnt the end point of globalism anyway. Its only the start.
 
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Rob R

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Funny since the un made taking land illegal the amount of involuntary border change due to invasion has dramatically collapsed. Do you just think that is a coincident? The un may not stop an invasion but it greatly reduces the motivation to invade thus China would not want to invade.


plus the current UN isnt the end point of globalism anyway. Its only the start.
China has only taken tibet as , violently supressed Xinjang, as well as taken land from India and tried to take land from Vietnam and Russia. Plus of course taking thr islands in the SCS and turning them into military fortresses despite the International court ruling in favour of the Philippines. UN doesn't seem to have stopped them only the threat of force or sanctions. Hopefully the world will take appropriate actions and implement sanctions if the CCP escalates its barbaric behaviour in Hong Kong or continues to threaten Taiwan and expands its illegal annexation of islands in the SCS.

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Seeds

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China has only taken tibet as , violently supressed Xinjang, as well as taken land from India and tried to take land from Vietnam and Russia. Plus of course taking thr islands in the SCS and turning them into military fortresses despite the International court ruling in favour of the Philippines. UN doesn't seem to have stopped them only the threat of force or sanctions. Hopefully the world will take appropriate actions and implement sanctions if the CCP escalates its barbaric behaviour in Hong Kong or continues to threaten Taiwan and expands its illegal annexation of islands in the SCS.

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China was a basket case when it did all that with little involvement in the world. UN incentives dont really work when your largely seperated from the world. Thats not the case now.
 

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Gethelred

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But the US does exist. Luckily for us its also in America's interest to have us in this region of the world so our alliance has a long way to run. If the US didn't exist or decided we weren't worth protecting we would get invaded in a matter of weeks and there's no force on the face of the earth that would stop it even if it could. Your stark raving mad if you think the UN or Nato would step in.
...

Tell me, are you aware of what a logistical nightmare running a war on foreign soil is?

Say, Indonesia decided to do precisely that. Most of the population's on the East Coast. Say, they decided to take Western Australia; makes sense, it's where the natural resources are, right? Except there's natural resources ******* everywhere in Australia, and WA alone is ******* huge. They don't have the troops to cover it all, and that's provided their invasion is successful to begin with. They've got to get the troops here, keep them fed and supplied. And that's without taking for granted the fact that the population would get their backs right up, and the fact that while we don't have many people in our military what we do have are pretty ******* good at what they do.

It is not worth the problem of invading Australia for our resources, not when you can just buy them off us. We'll give you a decent deal for trade, and we assure a decent product. The only reason to invade Australia is if we wronged them for some reason or you wanted to expand, and most of the countries that might want to do that are a long way off.

You're spinning moonbeams if you think someone wants to invade Australia. It'd be more trouble than it'd be worth.
 

madmadworld

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The UN is..... just better than nothing.

What if
the UK gave Hong Kong to China under some conditions. how many times has China already broken those conditions ?
So the UK should just cancel the Handover. what are the commies going to do ? push back is coming
 

madmadworld

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Tell me, are you aware of what a logistical nightmare running a war on foreign soil is?
Not that hard when have all the food resources you all have. they would not care a bit you pale faces starve to death.

Say, Indonesia decided to do precisely that. Most of the population's on the East Coast. Say, they decided to take Western Australia; makes sense, it's where the natural resources are, right? Except there's natural resources ******* everywhere in Australia, and WA alone is ******* huge. They don't have the troops to cover it all, and that's provided their invasion is successful to begin with. They've got to get the troops here, keep them fed and supplied. And that's without taking for granted the fact that the population would get their backs right up, and the fact that while we don't have many people in our military what we do have are pretty ******* good at what they do.
Indonesia ..........who's talking about Indonesia ?
Change that to China with their military different ball game there.

It is not worth the problem of invading Australia for our resources, not when you can just buy them off us.
The never pay for what you can steal rule applies here.

if you think someone wants to invade Australia. It'd be more trouble than it'd be worth.
Love your Country... it's worth it.
 

Gethelred

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Not that hard when have all the food resources you all have. they would not care a bit you pale faces starve to death.
You're barking.

To get to our food stores, they'd have to invade through either Sydney, Adelaide or Melbourne; ie, the most populous parts of Australia, on the far side of the continent to them. Logistics, remember; it would take 150 years for them to pay for the war effort, and that's provided they are assured of victory.

How are they feeding their own troops if this goes poorly? How are they exposing the entirety of their supply train all the way back to China/SE Asia to America without retaliation? It would be a cheap, simple solution for America to be involved whilst committing minimum effort.
Indonesia ..........who's talking about Indonesia ?
Change that to China with their military different ball game there.
No, it really isn't. It costs more the further you are away, and again, Australia would tie down enough resources to make them vulnerable on size alone.

We are geographically massive. This is my point. You need to a) successfully invade, then b) need to hold onto the country long enough to pacify it. I'm not even talking allies, I'm talking about doing it purely themselves.

The never pay for what you can steal rule applies here.
Um, what I'm talking about is how it would cost 100-200 years worth of trade before you would begin to recoup the costs such a war with us would entail, and that is provided they won it. 'Stealing' would imply they have easy access; my whole argument is that such access does not exist, beyond paying for it.
Love your Country... it's worth it.
I do love my country, but I don't overstate its significance on the world stage. To a lot of nations, there's small value in owning a big piece of rock in the middle of bloody nowhere, that controls the bits of ocean no-one wants. We are inconveniently large, we are pugalistic and we are convenient to trade with.

A lot of this board is full of bitching about living here, and you think other countries are that keen for a piece they could not keep or hold? You're absolutely unequivocally wrong.
 

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SaintsSeptember

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I appreciate the sentiment around getting manufacturing back on our shores, but we have little competitive advantage for producing our own products. As long as people are aware we're likely to pay 2-3 times more for products if they are made here, because workers have basic rights and safety.
Not everything is Labour intensive.
 

Bestbird

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I wonder how we'd react if India claimed the ocean, including islands a few hundred Km off the W.A. Coastline.
Mind you Timor did have an issue regarding maritime borders with Australia that was only recently resolved


In the aftermath of the Australia–East Timor spying scandal in 2013, East Timor launched a case at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to pull out of the gas treaty it had signed with Australia accusing the latter of having its intelligence agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), bug the East Timorese cabinet room in Dili in 2004.[14]

On 3 March 2014, in response to an East Timorese request for an indication of provisional measures, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Australia not to interfere with communications between East Timor and its legal advisors in the arbitral proceedings and related matters.[15]

New negotiations about the maritime boundary began in 2014.[16] Both parties signed a revised agreement in March 2018, ending the long-running dispute. In addition to demarcating maritime borders, the agreement guarantees 70-80% of revenue to East Timor and 20-30% of revenue to Australia depending on where gas is piped
 

madmadworld

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You're barking.

To get to our food stores, they'd have to invade through either Sydney, Adelaide or Melbourne; ie, the most populous parts of Australia, on the far side of the continent to them. Logistics, remember; it would take 150 years for them to pay for the war effort, and that's provided they are assured of victory.

How are they feeding their own troops if this goes poorly? How are they exposing the entirety of their supply train all the way back to China/SE Asia to America without retaliation? It would be a cheap, simple solution for America to be involved whilst committing minimum effort.

No, it really isn't. It costs more the further you are away, and again, Australia would tie down enough resources to make them vulnerable on size alone.

We are geographically massive. This is my point. You need to a) successfully invade, then b) need to hold onto the country long enough to pacify it. I'm not even talking allies, I'm talking about doing it purely themselves.


Um, what I'm talking about is how it would cost 100-200 years worth of trade before you would begin to recoup the costs such a war with us would entail, and that is provided they won it. 'Stealing' would imply they have easy access; my whole argument is that such access does not exist, beyond paying for it.

I do love my country, but I don't overstate its significance on the world stage. To a lot of nations, there's small value in owning a big piece of rock in the middle of bloody nowhere, that controls the bits of ocean no-one wants. We are inconveniently large, we are pugalistic and we are convenient to trade with.

A lot of this board is full of bitching about living here, and you think other countries are that keen for a piece they could not keep or hold? You're absolutely unequivocally wrong.
I'm somewhat pulling your chain.

But if they did come at you I doubt we together could stop them with conventional weapons.. they would have to show their hand well in advance. allowing us to build up. that's not likely. add in our forces are tired after 20 years and depleted. their build up the past 20 years has been robust to say the least. the question is why ? speculate what you will. we do know no one has been pressing them. you are looking at the Chinese from their cost view. If they did invade they would figure out how to make a profit doing so. they would have learned from our mistakes the past 20 years. plus they have no interest in nation building, they want total control.

Bottom line their forces are far too much for you all. a few days of bombing then ground invasion, surrender. you guys need nukes. lol
 

Rob R

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Mind you Timor did have an issue regarding maritime borders with Australia that was only recently resolved


In the aftermath of the Australia–East Timor spying scandal in 2013, East Timor launched a case at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to pull out of the gas treaty it had signed with Australia accusing the latter of having its intelligence agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), bug the East Timorese cabinet room in Dili in 2004.[14]

On 3 March 2014, in response to an East Timorese request for an indication of provisional measures, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Australia not to interfere with communications between East Timor and its legal advisors in the arbitral proceedings and related matters.[15]

New negotiations about the maritime boundary began in 2014.[16] Both parties signed a revised agreement in March 2018, ending the long-running dispute. In addition to demarcating maritime borders, the agreement guarantees 70-80% of revenue to East Timor and 20-30% of revenue to Australia depending on where gas is piped
That is so similar (not) to landing troops, building military fortifications and telling the international maritime court to get f***d which is what China did.

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SaintsSeptember

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Mind you Timor did have an issue regarding maritime borders with Australia that was only recently resolved


In the aftermath of the Australia–East Timor spying scandal in 2013, East Timor launched a case at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to pull out of the gas treaty it had signed with Australia accusing the latter of having its intelligence agency, the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), bug the East Timorese cabinet room in Dili in 2004.[14]

On 3 March 2014, in response to an East Timorese request for an indication of provisional measures, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Australia not to interfere with communications between East Timor and its legal advisors in the arbitral proceedings and related matters.[15]

New negotiations about the maritime boundary began in 2014.[16] Both parties signed a revised agreement in March 2018, ending the long-running dispute. In addition to demarcating maritime borders, the agreement guarantees 70-80% of revenue to East Timor and 20-30% of revenue to Australia depending on where gas is piped
Fair comment , the Timor issure was pretty complicated though, and at least you can say the gas fields they are fighting over are "between" Australia and East Timor.

Some of the area's the Chinese are trying to stake some kind of claim over are closer to 5 other countries than China.
 

Gethelred

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I'm somewhat pulling your chain.

But if they did come at you I doubt we together could stop them with conventional weapons.. they would have to show their hand well in advance. allowing us to build up. that's not likely. add in our forces are tired after 20 years and depleted. their build up the past 20 years has been robust to say the least. the question is why ? speculate what you will. we do know no one has been pressing them. you are looking at the Chinese from their cost view. If they did invade they would figure out how to make a profit doing so. they would have learned from our mistakes the past 20 years. plus they have no interest in nation building, they want total control.

Bottom line their forces are far too much for you all. a few days of bombing then ground invasion, surrender. you guys need nukes. lol
You're thinking of it like a video game, or if you were approaching it in terms of ability to invade and win. Nations do not move easily or suddenly, and it would take rather a lot to change in the relationship between China and Australia for it to become more cost effective to invade and conquer than it would merely to trade.

And you might be pulling my chain, but there are Australians who fully believe that China could invade Australia, that it is something that could happen.
 

QuietB

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Japan probably had intentions of taking Australia once. The small problem is they had to take everything in between first. And China would have to do the same.

Beijing is over 9,000km away and China have not had a war with anyone yet.

It is fanciful.

But conservatives always need an enemy. Real or imagined doesn’t really matter.
 

hamohawk1

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Japan probably had intentions of taking Australia once. The small problem is they had to take everything in between first. And China would have to do the same.

Beijing is over 9,000km away and China have not had a war with anyone yet.

It is fanciful.

But conservatives always need an enemy. Real or imagined doesn’t really matter.
Only contrary to that is China could be seen to be buying its way in, through acquisitions of agricultural land, ports, property etc.
 

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