Roast The Chronicles of Alan Richardson

Who will be head coach in 2019?

  • Alan Richardson

    Votes: 24 20.2%
  • Mark Williams

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Brett Ratten

    Votes: 65 54.6%
  • Robert Harvey

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Mark Thompson

    Votes: 14 11.8%

  • Total voters
    119
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mightymalaka

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Mate I'm nothing. I just call it like I see it... Just as everyone does.
You got the first part right....;)

No problems about speaking your mind brother!
would rather you did tbh...
words like petulance, squealing and a certain poster are just dancing!

Innocent angels like me get confused....:innocent:
as to who the feck your talking about!
 

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Saint Watto

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The only way that Chief Cho survives is if we can't find a suitable replacement.
Agree with you VDS66......that is my absolute firm belief.

It's a case of who would the club get in as the head coach.

If there's no ideal candidate who is available and more importantly wants the position...….that will be the case.
 

NarklesHelmet

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I hear a lot in the media that we are following the Richmond/Collingwood model with coaches.

Can anyone logically explain to me (outside of the payout/re-contracting issue) why we are seemingly ignoring the Bulldogs example from not too long before that?

We as a club are WAY more similar to the Dogs than we are to Richmond and Collingwood... even down to the type of coach the Dogs had in charge of a young team. McCartney was seen as tactically inflexible/limited but a good "teacher" of young players, like Richo is. But he was growing stale with a young group.

What was interesting after the Dogs premiership, when you watch the documentaries where they interview key figures in the club about their famous win, almost everyone of them to a man/woman credits Bevo with turning things around. It's pretty much unanimous.

To me, the similarities to our and the Dogs situations are plentiful... to Richmond and Collingwood? Not so much.

So why are we following their model instead of the Bulldog's one?
 
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gringo2011

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Nah not really.

Stupid is stupid IMO.

Truth is truth.

Not about moral superiority. Just pointing out the obvious.

If you see that as pointing out moral superiority then that's up to you. Don't care really.

Would be interested to hear your views if stuff like this was being pointed to one of your kids.

Joffa made a post and I replied to him.

Some of the comments have been ott. Not sensible discussion.

Funny that you would have a go at me about it, yet it's OK to make personal abuse towards an individual.

Probably because you do it yourself with your nastiness towards Trout.

Probably says more about your moral compass.

But thanks for looking out for me. Let's move on because I'm not here to argue.

Cheers

You'd make a terrible debater, anyway it comes with the territory. Coaches are more likely to be ripped to shreds than made heroes of and all of them get the arse eventually. They must have a masochistic streak to even do the job in the first place. He's been around the industry long enough to know you go from hero to villain in the bat of an eye.

Trout isn't human, he doesn't count.
 

gringo2011

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I hear a lot in the media that we are following the Richmond/Collingwood model with coaches.

Can anyone logically explain to me (outside of the payout/re-contracting issue) why we are seemingly ignoring the Bulldogs example from not too long before that?

We as a club are WAY more similar to the Dogs than we are to Richmond and Collingwood... even down to the type of coach the Dogs had in charge of a young tream. McCartney was seen as tactically inflexible/limited but a good "teacher" of young players, like Richo is. But he was growing stale with a young group.

What was interesting after the Dogs premiership, when you watch the documentaries where they interview key figures in the club about their famous win, almost everyone of them to a man/woman credits Bevo with turning things around. It's pretty much unanimous.

To me, the similarities to our and the Dogs situations are plentiful... to Richmond and Collingwood? Not so much.

So why are we following their model instead of the Bulldog's one?

The Dogs looked like a better list to start with though. The AFL really only has about a 12 month attention span. Who ever won the last premiership has the perfect model.
 
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Been a major failure of the club for 15 years actually.
That’s why the Cats & Swans have maintained being competitive they bring in a young player surround them
with experience , guide them thru the pressure of the game.
Heard Corey Enright talk about it one day , said when new player goes out on the ground , the senior players
go out of their way to make sure that player is given the ball very early in the game.
When they do a tackle or a block they are quickly acknowledged by the senior players verbally encouraged.
Now that is how you develop young players! Forgive me, but I am going to be one of those pain in the ass posters that makes a very minor correction to an otherwise fantastic post. Sorry but I don't think its been 15 years, its 12!

2001/2 - 2005/6 we were fantastic at it. I would go almost as far as saying we were industry leading at player development (sadly not injury management or gameday coaching but that is a different bottle of whisky).

However, when Hamill and Powell finished up, and the Butters / Thommo relationship fell apart, the leadership model very much transitioned. It became a boys club of senior players with the 'do as I do' attitude. The Harvey, Roo, Goddard model took back over the club (same as what it was in the 90s) and the young players bought into the club no longer mattered.

I know I will get flamed on here for saying it (anyone who ever criticises Roo does), but our leadership through those years was an issue. Had more of the Kozy, Lenny personality types been at the forefront, then I have no doubt that our 07-10 drafts wouldn't look so bad. But hey there is nothing we can do about that now, and the Roo, Goddard model got us very very close (just sadly at the expense of our future).

This is part of why I was so big on getting Sloane in this year, to play that Hamill role. Not sure Hanners is the type (although I rate the system he comes out of and maybe he could grow into it). Really believe we actually need a culture change more than we need tactical gamedaynous! (Could say that starts at the board, but all that gets is the "the club is run better then ever" crowd going. Funnily enough, I think I have heard that every year since Alves was appointed! Anyway I digress).

Speaking of Enright though, we could offer him a promotion and payrise to come over! However, the one I would really really want out of that system is James Rahilly! Quadruple the value of Mitchell at half the price. Sadly we aren't that proactive!
 

VDS66

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You'd make a terrible debater, anyway it comes with the territory. Coaches are more likely to be ripped to shreds than made heroes of and all of them get the arse eventually. They must have a masochistic streak to even do the job in the first place. He's been around the industry long enough to know you go from hero to villain in the bat of an eye.

Trout isn't human, he doesn't count.
Not here to debate, so not sure what your point is.

Sorry my moral superiority annoys you do much that you constantly need to pointbit out to me.
 

VDS66

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Now that is how you develop young players! Forgive me, but I am going to be one of those pain in the ass posters that makes a very minor correction to an otherwise fantastic post. Its not 15 years, its 12!

2002 - 2005 we were fantastic at it. I would go almost as far as saying we were industry leading at player development (sadly not injury management or gameday coaching but that is a different bottle of whisky).

However, when Hamill and Powell finished up, and the Butters / Thommo relationship fell apart, the leadership model very much transitioned. It became a boys club of senior players with the 'do as I do' attitude. The Harvey, Roo, Goddard model took back over the club (same as what it was in the 90s) and the young players bought into the club no longer mattered.

I know I will get flamed on here for saying it (anyone who ever criticises Roo does), but our leadership through those years was an issue. Had more of the Kozy, Lenny personality types been at the forefront, then I have no doubt that our 07-10 drafts wouldn't look so bad. But hey there is nothing we can do about that now, and the Roo, Goddard model got us very very close (just sadly at the expense of our future).

This is part of why I was so big on getting Sloane in this year, to play that Hamill role. Not sure Hanners is the type (although I rate the system he comes out of and maybe he could grow into it). Really believe we actually need a culture change more than we need tactical gamedaynous! (Could say that starts at the board, but all that gets is the "the club is run better then ever" crowd going. Funnily enough, I think I have heard that every year since Alves was appointed! Anyway I digress).

Speaking of Enright though, we could offer him a promotion and payrise to come over! However, the one I would really really want out of that system is James Rahilly! Quadruple the value of Mitchell at half the price. Sadly we aren't that proactive!
That is actually a very good post.

I'll add the following please...

The ageing of our list has meant that we no longer have those wise heads around the lads. Probably pointed out already, but I'm getting old.

Under Lyon and Roo, I believe you are spot on. There was the trusted 25 and everyone else was invisible.

A close friends son played basketball with an ex-rookie. Neither said 2 words to him when he was there.

In 2011 we started poorly. Lyon started playing a few kids but once we were in with a sniff, he reverted to his trusted group.

Like Geelong, we should have continued to blood those kids IMO.

Then he retired a few of them off. The end of an era he called it...

That in turn led to the massive gap in our list.
 

gringo2011

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Not here to debate, so not sure what your point is.

Sorry my moral superiority annoys you do much that you constantly need to pointbit out to me.

Do I? Sorry bro, I thought I was helping you come across as more measured so you could bring others around to your way of thinking. I think you are right but you come across as patronising the way you post sometimes. I find Plugger gets people off side with the way he posts and even when he has a good point people ignore him because he comes across as abrasive. I admire your resolute fortitude, perhaps I'm jealous.
 

VDS66

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Do I? Sorry bro, I thought I was helping you come across as more measured so you could bring others around to your way of thinking. I think you are right but you come across as patronising the way you post sometimes. I find Plugger gets people off side with the way he posts and even when he has a good point people ignore him because he comes across as abrasive. I admire your resolute fortitude, perhaps I'm jealous.
Without sounding arrogant:

Nothing I nor anyone posts will bring posters around to my way of thinking on certain topics.

Not here to win popularity contests.

The reasonable discussions I have on here are pretty much with posters who know how to reasonably discuss things.

In terms of patronising, I've gone down the passive route only to cop shit about being a Cho defender etc. So yeah, it goes both ways. Not complaining.

My fault for not having the mental fortitude to avoid this thread when I should know better...

Peace.
 
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Saint Watto

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** not renewing memberships is a very dangerous action to take. If you want us to stay in Melbourne then don’t pack it in. Write emails, speak to Finnis & co at games & tell them how you feel. But support the club or you might not have one**
My thoughts exactly Winmar………..that side of things is a massive concern......it's a dangerous thing at this point of time......but I do respect everyone's choices.

I feel everyone's pain and anger......Saturday nights loss hit me harder than any of the losses this year.....and I told that(and a few other things re our performance) to a club employee who I corresponded with Monday morning.

Believe me...they know.

I was sitting in my seat Sat night late in the game in absolute despair...….an ordinary crowd again...….a tough sell of memberships for 2019.....etc etc.

Right now is the worst possible time for things to have gone pear shaped given our financial situation.

Think of the club......not who's currently inside it...…...as I said above,I respect everyone's choices in what they want to do.

As Winmar stated......the absolute worse case is that we end up not having a club.

PS....the club would have normally have had a members forum night by now...….they have the last 2 seasons......conspiracy theory anyone???????
 
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That is actually a very good post.

I'll add the following please...

The ageing of our list has meant that we no longer have those wise heads around the lads. Probably pointed out already, but I'm getting old.

Under Lyon and Roo, I believe you are spot on. There was the trusted 25 and everyone else was invisible.

A close friends son played basketball with an ex-rookie. Neither said 2 words to him when he was there.

In 2011 we started poorly. Lyon started playing a few kids but once we were in with a sniff, he reverted to his trusted group.

Like Geelong, we should have continued to blood those kids IMO.

Then he retired a few of them off. The end of an era he called it...

That in turn led to the massive gap in our list.
Thanks mate. The point I guess I am trying to make is that our on-field leadership is a reflection of our off-field situation and vice versa. You actually cant sensibly talk about one without also discussing the other, as one is the extension of the other.

People wanting Roo back, or a superstar player to emerge from our group are completely missing the point about what good leadership is. Its about making those around you better! The last thing we need is Roo or Goddard back, or to trade in a Lynch type figure.

Okay we have missed out on Sloane (who I wanted to play a similar role to what Hamill did in the early 00s). That sucks, and unless we can pull a rabbit out of the hat, I don't see the on-field leadership situation changing anytime soon (happy to debate the merits of a GT style rotation to fast-track this process, this but that is another discussion). At the moment we will just plod along with a 4 man leadership team (Robbo has bigger issues to worry about) of which 2 wouldn't get a game at any top 8 club and another who never wanted to be there in the first place.

But this on-field situation only makes the off-field appointments more important (hence almost 300 pages in a sack Richo thread). It is no coincidence that most people aim both barrels at either Richo, Finnis (off-field) or Paddy, Billings, Geary (on-field). The subtext is that we are searching (from the President down) for leadership … and we have none.

Now, if we are going to keep the holy trinity that "run the club better than ever" (Summers, Richo & Geary) then we are just going to have to find some semblance of leadership from somewhere else. So lets start from the ground up and find the best assistants and development coaches.

Now everyone is going to want the Carracella, Tudor, Burns, Ratton, Mitchell types, but realistically we cant compete with the big boys for their services because we don't have the $$, positions available or proximity to a flag. Maybe we get one, but that is just another version of the messiah complex. They will need help.

So here is where we need to be proactive and hunt the underappreciated development coaches from good systems who (most importantly) are also good leaders of young men! The Rahilly, Enright, Stevie J, McVeigh, Hickmont, Glass, Kinneally types. And let Lenny know the door is always open (with a $1m bonus if he can talk Kelly into following). Then they can get to work Monday to Friday teaching and leading these kids.

Oh and if anyone wants an education on what a professionally run off-field team looks like, go to the Hawthorn staff page and tell me how many of those positions related to culture, psychological wellbeing and development even actually exist at St.Kilda.

Finally, a few pages back someone asked what happened to Schnieds development role … Lenny poached him to GWS and the two of them are in charge of the best group of young mids in the game (who just keep getting better)! Meanwhile we have Gilbee who is so thick he moved his furniture into the wrong house. But hey, what happened this year is a complete surprise!
 
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VDS66

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Thanks mate. The point I guess I am trying to make is that our on-field leadership is a reflection of our off-field situation and vice versa. You actually cant sensibly talk about one without also discussing the other, as one is the extension of the other.

People wanting Roo back, or a superstar player to emerge from our group are completely missing the point about what good leadership is. Its about making those around you better! The last thing we need is Roo or Goddard back, or to trade in a Lynch type figure.

Okay we have missed out on Sloane (who I wanted to play a similar role to what Hamill did). That sucks, and unless we can pull a rabbit out of the hat, I don't see the on-field leadership situation changing anytime soon (happy to debate the merits of a GT style rotation to fast-track, this but that is another discussion).

But this on-field situation only makes the off-field appointments more important (hence almost 300 pages in a sack Richo thread). It is no coincidence that most people aim both barrels at either Richo, Finnis, Paddy, Billings or Geary. The subtext is that we are searching (from the President down) for leadership … and we have none.

Now, if we are going to keep the holy trinity that "run the club better than ever" (Summers, Richo & Geary) then we are just going to have to find some semblance of leadership from somewhere else. So lets start from the ground up and find the best assistants and development coaches.

Now everyone is going to want the Carracella, Tudor, Burns, Ratton, Mitchell types, but realistically we cant compete with the big boys for their services because we don't have the $$, positions available or proximity to a flag. Maybe we get one, but that is just another version of the messiah complex.

So here is where we need to be proactive and hunt the underappreciated development coaches from good systems who (most importantly) are also good leaders of young men! The Rahilly, Enright, Stevie J, McVeigh, Hickmont, Glass, Kinneally types. And let Lenny know the door is always open (with a $1m bonus if he can talk Kelly into following).

Oh and a few pages back, someone asked what happened to Schnieds development role … Lenny poached him to GWS and the two of them are in charge of the best group of young mids in the game (who just keep getting better)! Meanwhile we have Gilbee who is so thick he moved his furniture into the wrong house. But hey, what happened this year is a complete surprise!
I really hope we land Ratten. D######r tells me he is highly rate and the players love him.
 

Saint Watto

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I want to ask the older supporters about the times during the Watson/blight years as I was too young to really remember. Is this period worse than then? Do you guys feel more angry and lost at what the club is doing?
Sainter93...….I like many on here have been thru the really bad periods spanning 45 years.....they are usually always different.

The Watson tenure started ok in 1999....but went pear shaped very quickly with a spoon in 2000.

When Timmy fessed up and said he couldn't coach...I thought.."no s*** Shirley".

Blight didn't last long.....the club was sucked in by that shonkster.

Those years of late 1999 thru early/mid 2003 were pretty bad.

Funnily enough....I don't feel angry or lost at the moment...disappointed....yes,extremely......I don't feel this period is any worse than then.

It maybe just me but things will sort themselves out...…..they always do.

I feel we have the nucleas of a good side.....that's everyone excepting most of the senior leaders.

We all just have to stick fat and see what happens at seasons end.....for us supporters...it's all we can do.
 

NarklesHelmet

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The Dogs looked like a better list to start with though. The AFL really only has about a 12 month attention span. Who ever won the last premiership has the perfect model.
While that's the way it looks now, the talk at the time though from the fans was eerily similar to ours.

"He's ruining our kids' development, he's tactically weak " etc etc, it's pretty much word for word. Some were sticking with him preaching "stability" and you had the ITK's talking about how players weren't happy.

Then came the off-season from hell it seemed where their captain walked out and they sacked the coach very late in the piece.

The lesson from this is, we should do what's best for us, like the Bulldogs did, not follow Richmond. Roos was spot-on when he talked about how ridiculous it was for Lethlean to compare us to Richmond On the Couch last night. It's just a really poor comparison and for some unknown reason keeps on cropping up.

The Bulldogs are the only team in recent history that I see a strong resemblance to where we are at right now.
 
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MUFKilda

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Sainter93...….I like many on here have been thru the really bad periods spanning 45 years.....they are usually always different.

The Watson tenure started ok in 1999....but went pear shaped very quickly with a spoon in 2000.

When Timmy fessed up and said he couldn't coach...I thought.."no s*** Shirley".

Blight didn't last long.....the club was sucked in by that shonkster.

Those years of late 1999 thru early/mid 2003 were pretty bad.

Funnily enough....I don't feel angry or lost at the moment...disappointed....yes,extremely......I don't feel this period is any worse than then.

It maybe just me but things will sort themselves out...…..they always do.

I feel we have the nucleas of a good side.....that's everyone excepting most of the senior leaders.

We all just have to stick fat and see what happens at seasons end.....for us supporters...it's all we can do.
Watto, tell him about the eighties, if you can bear to. :eek:

I've read some recollections posted by some of the Saints stalwarts, and they were X-rated stuff; totally horrendous. If the club can get through those times, it can get through anything.
 

Grav

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Penrith are and always have been a joke.

And when do we take the lead from that friggen sport?

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Well in all seriousness, lately St Kilda have become a bit of a joke & my point on the sacking wasn’t necessarily about the NRL.
It was because a team who will be playing finals (unlike the Saints who won’t be) had the balls to sack their coach (who in their eyes was a shit coach) which indirectly admits they got it wrong in signing him.

P.S. Maybe we haven’t got a shit coach, maybe he is the Messiah, maybe after he being at the helm for five years I’ve got it wrong.
 

Quixote

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Thanks mate. The point I guess I am trying to make is that our on-field leadership is a reflection of our off-field situation and vice versa. You actually cant sensibly talk about one without also discussing the other, as one is the extension of the other.

People wanting Roo back, or a superstar player to emerge from our group are completely missing the point about what good leadership is. Its about making those around you better! The last thing we need is Roo or Goddard back, or to trade in a Lynch type figure.

Okay we have missed out on Sloane (who I wanted to play a similar role to what Hamill did in the early 00s). That sucks, and unless we can pull a rabbit out of the hat, I don't see the on-field leadership situation changing anytime soon (happy to debate the merits of a GT style rotation to fast-track this process, this but that is another discussion). At the moment we will just plod along with a 4 man leadership team (Robbo has bigger issues to worry about) of which 2 wouldn't get a game at any top 8 club and another who never wanted to be there in the first place.

But this on-field situation only makes the off-field appointments more important (hence almost 300 pages in a sack Richo thread). It is no coincidence that most people aim both barrels at either Richo, Finnis (off-field) or Paddy, Billings, Geary (on-field). The subtext is that we are searching (from the President down) for leadership … and we have none.

Now, if we are going to keep the holy trinity that "run the club better than ever" (Summers, Richo & Geary) then we are just going to have to find some semblance of leadership from somewhere else. So lets start from the ground up and find the best assistants and development coaches.

Now everyone is going to want the Carracella, Tudor, Burns, Ratton, Mitchell types, but realistically we cant compete with the big boys for their services because we don't have the $$, positions available or proximity to a flag. Maybe we get one, but that is just another version of the messiah complex. They will need help.

So here is where we need to be proactive and hunt the underappreciated development coaches from good systems who (most importantly) are also good leaders of young men! The Rahilly, Enright, Stevie J, McVeigh, Hickmont, Glass, Kinneally types. And let Lenny know the door is always open (with a $1m bonus if he can talk Kelly into following). Then they can get to work Monday to Friday teaching and leading these kids.

Oh and if anyone wants an education on what a professionally run off-field team looks like, go to the Hawthorn staff page and tell me how many of those positions related to culture, psychological wellbeing and development even actually exist at St.Kilda.

Finally, a few pages back someone asked what happened to Schnieds development role … Lenny poached him to GWS and the two of them are in charge of the best group of young mids in the game (who just keep getting better)! Meanwhile we have Gilbee who is so thick he moved his furniture into the wrong house. But hey, what happened this year is a complete surprise!
Good post.

Gilbee, Lol, FFS.
 

Mowman

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Considering most of what these Kent's wrote was unmitigated Bullshit.

They gave a right to want him gone, SO DO I, but the personal abuse and lies being posted is frankly disgusting.

None of them would have the balls to say these things to him face to face.

Pretty cowardly tonight.

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No more cowardly then this post
 

pebblesofsand

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I hear a lot in the media that we are following the Richmond/Collingwood model with coaches.

Can anyone logically explain to me (outside of the payout/re-contracting issue) why we are seemingly ignoring the Bulldogs example from not too long before that?

We as a club are WAY more similar to the Dogs than we are to Richmond and Collingwood... even down to the type of coach the Dogs had in charge of a young tream. McCartney was seen as tactically inflexible/limited but a good "teacher" of young players, like Richo is. But he was growing stale with a young group.

What was interesting after the Dogs premiership, when you watch the documentaries where they interview key figures in the club about their famous win, almost everyone of them to a man/woman credits Bevo with turning things around. It's pretty much unanimous.

To me, the similarities to our and the Dogs situations are plentiful... to Richmond and Collingwood? Not so much.

So why are we following their model instead of the Bulldog's one?
I gather its because Richo hasn't lost the players just yet and the Captain hasn't jumped ship like Griffen did to the Dogs leaving the club in turmoil.

The comparison to Richmond and Collingwood is more valid because both Hardwick and Buckley had a number of years of steady improvement and then had a bad year.

Both Richmond and Collingwood were under pressure to sack both but decided that the year was an aberration and choose to review the structures/assistant coaching instead. In both cases if Buckley and Hardwick had not turned it around the following year they would have been gone.

Same applies to Richo.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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St Kilda
Every supporter of our club appreciates what you and others do to help our club Trav but I’ve spoken to a lot of rusted on supporters and I’ve read a hell of a lot of passionate posts on social media and I have no doubt that this season will have a huge negative impact on membership. We don’t have to like it or agree with it but after a 5 year rebuild to be playing as bad as 2014 in a lot of ways has upset our supporters a lot.
I think right now supporters and members are feeling fed up and they’re not able to see themselves going through another rebuild. It takes a big commitment emotionally and financially to be a member of a footy club, and right now I see a huge number ready to throw the towel in.
I honestly don’t believe the board have any idea what effect this season will have on our bottom line.
i get the anger ... i too am angry that we are playing shit... i even get some people feeling that its enough for them and they want to leave.. but i know that the club and our supporters like the names i mentioned in the other membership thread are doing their all to turn this around .. like all things preople have opinions on how things should be done to turn things around and they may not agree with the actions the club do to turn it around but to say the club is doing nothing and that the club dont know how the members are feeling and that the club think 2018 has been acceptable ... this is all wrong statements.. turning things around isnt going to be a one week exercise , its not a one position change fix there is a heap of work to be done , the club admit that so i get if members are not prepared to be part of it while there is so much work to be done but jeepers how bout you dont drag others out the door with you
 
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