Roast The Chronicles of Alan Richardson

Who will be head coach in 2019?

  • Alan Richardson

    Votes: 24 20.2%
  • Mark Williams

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Brett Ratten

    Votes: 65 54.6%
  • Robert Harvey

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • Mark Thompson

    Votes: 14 11.8%

  • Total voters
    119
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StCicatriz

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i do understand why ... seriously im as gutted and as angry as you with the results and we have made some howling mistakes but at the heart of it all this is still my club , theres a reason i do work for this club and its not cause their history of success ... i dont begrudge anyone wanting out , me personally im too emotionally financially and spiritually invested in this club to let it push me out the door but i get not everyone is the same as me but if you are walking out the door please for the sake of our club lets not try and drag others with you
see i dont think you do trav. i think you are a very loyal type. the club could finish last every year for the next 10 and you'll still be there. you'll still volunteer and be as involved with the club as you can. that's not a knock, its a compliment. you are very loyal and i think you are more accepting of it and will defend it more than others on here. we need more like you.

but others on here and by extension the supporting public do not feel the same way. they dont have the tolerance or faith you do. that is i suspect why you have so many people who are not members and never have been. george had a wonderful post about the research done that shows we have a comparable supporter base to richmond. yet we've never had the same membership numbers.

in all honesty and dont take it the wrong way but from my part and the role i do and my counterparts do we would rather you did just go quietly .. by all means let the club know why you are leaving but advertising on an internet forum you are leaving cause you think we are a rabble is more about you then it is about caring for the club .. i dunno perhaps you are looking for justification by agreeance of others to help you make that decision to leave i dont know
i'd rather you leave and go quietly, just dont say anything bad about the club. that's a big issue right there. its essentially censorship on any criticism. there's a whole host of reasons why that should never happen in any shape or form in society.
 

Txiki

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Tony74 - an ITK on SS who has been reliable in the past has had a few things to say over the last few days. Maybe not what you want to hear but potentially a helpful perspective:

In relation to hearing that Richo is only entitled to a 3 month pay out, Tony stated: "that's correct".
But Jaxons on SS contradicted that and gave a $500k payout figure and said that it was fact.
 
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Replicability.

Were the dogs the best team in the competition that year? Have they achieved sustained success? What are the chances of finding a senior coach who is as good a motivator as Bevo?

If i was going to copy a model i'm not sure that the best one would be a team that made the finals twice, finished 6th then finished 7th, had probably one of the greatest finals campaigns to win a premiership but hasn't been back in the finals since.

Bevo is great and the Dogs were awesome, but i'm just not sure that you can look at their example and think that it is the most likely way to deliver our next premiership.

Richmond at least have been the best team in the competition for two years in a row and Hardwick while being a solid citizen doesn't seem like the greatest coach of all time. I think that their model is a bit more likely to deliver long term success but time will tell.
Not sure why people want to follow the latest trends all the time either. We need to build a sustainable system from the ground up with our own identity (not this half hearted saints footy crap we roll out at press conferences). GT and Stan had a crack at it, but never quite finished the job.

Hardwick and Bevo are just knock off versions. One just got on a roll for 8 weeks, and the other had Neale Balme putting all the off-field structures in place.

These two actually wrote the book on how to build it properly!

Capture.PNG
 
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Quixote

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I hear a lot in the media that we are following the Richmond/Collingwood model with coaches.

Can anyone logically explain to me (outside of the payout/re-contracting issue) why we are seemingly ignoring the Bulldogs example from not too long before that?

We as a club are WAY more similar to the Dogs than we are to Richmond and Collingwood... even down to the type of coach the Dogs had in charge of a young tream. McCartney was seen as tactically inflexible/limited but a good "teacher" of young players, like Richo is. But he was growing stale with a young group.

What was interesting after the Dogs premiership, when you watch the documentaries where they interview key figures in the club about their famous win, almost everyone of them to a man/woman credits Bevo with turning things around. It's pretty much unanimous.

To me, the similarities to our and the Dogs situations are plentiful... to Richmond and Collingwood? Not so much.

So why are we following their model instead of the Bulldog's one?
Good post.
 

Quixote

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Not sure why people want to follow the latest trends all the time either. We need to build a sustainable system from the ground up with our own identity (not this half hearted saints footy crap we roll out at press conferences). GT and Stan had a crack at it, but never quite finished the job.

Hardwick and Bevo are just knock off versions. One just got on a roll for 8 weeks, and the other had Neale Balme putting all the off-field structures in place.

These two actually wrote the book on how to build it properly!

View attachment 539493
Three steps down the path.

We don't even know the right model to follow yet, let alone implement our own!
 

Diehard Saint

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Tony74 - an ITK on SS who has been reliable in the past has had a few things to say over the last few days. Maybe not what you want to hear but potentially a helpful perspective:

In relation to hearing that Richo is only entitled to a 3 month pay out, Tony stated: "that's correct".

He then posted: "All aspects of the club share the blame. That was the message during the review. The club has got us in this mess. The club has to get us out of this mess. The club as a whole.
I don’t really care if you don’t like that answer, it’s fact. It’s a real grim place at the moment."

Followed by: "I can categorically state that money is not the issue with Richo’s tenure. That has been covered."

He stated when asked whether the board is unanimous in their support of richo that "No don't know".

When asked if there is unanimous support from the players he said: "No coach has ever had 100% support from all players. I have been at the club a long long time. Let’s just say there’s more support with Richo than Scott. Ross certainly didn’t have them all either."

When talking about the upcoming game and whether if we got pumped that would be the last straw for Richo he said: "Well you will all know one thing for certain- whether he has or has not lost the players."

When asked what he thought (about losing the players), he replied: "the players are with him". When asked how he would know he said: "Seriously I don’t know. But I’m privileged to have one hell of an idea."

http://www.saintsational.net/search...posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
If money really isn’t an issue with sacking Richo, then I reckon we are hedging our bets. Supporting him now, but if a better option comes up ( I’ve no doubt they are looking) then it’s bye bye Richo. They probably think it’s a better way to go than just sacking him and then starting to look for a coach, and I think they’d be right. Easier to sack someone when you have someone else coming in...just ask Freo.
 

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Speaking as an outsider with some minor intel: a couple of the St Kilda boys that I have had dealings with this year have dropped a few hints that they are unhappy with what they perceive as preferential treatment towards some by Richo.
It's not unusual. There would not be a club on this planet where a player has not had a gripe about preferential treatment by a coach towards other players
If it's not that issue, then it's the amount of game time they are getting, or that they should be playing midfield instead of someone else, or how did that campaigner get best on ground votes? That's how clubland is, even in the most successful club
 
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DarkSaint

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i dont think so .... i think its a pretty clear thing every man and his dog will tip we will get flogged and flogged big time the game result is already played out in the minds of the media and many football followers so we can turn areound and say this game has a big impact but really it doesnt all it will do is justify another week of our members feeling shit about the year and more posts coming about how shit we are and tearing up memberships
So we should go into the game with a mentality of rolling over and expecting a thrashing. This is the reason why the club is like it is. It starts from members accepting mediocrity year after year.

We should be going into this game saying that any loss isn't acceptable let along getting smacked.
 

luca77

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Speaking as an outsider with some minor intel: a couple of the St Kilda boys that I have had dealings with this year have dropped a few hints that they are unhappy with what they perceive as preferential treatment towards some by Richo.
Cheers for that. Yeah there's been quit a lot of talk about that on here. Mostly half joking, but if we can see that Richo is picking players on something other than form, I'm sure the players would get frustrated by that too. He seems to think winning games of footy is about effort rather than ability. As such we've got a bunch of skill-less "triers" out there. Some of the guys who are a bit less bash-and-crash get dropped after 1 or 2 quiet games, but others such as Newnes and Weller get played all year regardless.
I laughed the other night when Joey explained Seb being sent back as "Richo likes to get some of his better ball users behind the ball". Ross played a really good game the other night, but anybody (except for one guy on here who defends him endlessly) can see his ball use and disposal had been putrid for months until the other night. Richo seems to pick players based on what he's seen them produce in the past. That must be frustrating for some of the players who are playing well (if a bit inconsistently) but don't get a good run at it, or who are pushed out to some kind of unfamiliar role.

Having said that. I'm frustrated with Richo, but I'm not calling for his head. I think regardless of the bizarre decisions Richo makes, and me not really buying into what he's about as a coach...regardless of that the players as professionals have got to be better at finding ways to improve. If I was a pro and I kicked the ball like Geary, Ross, Paddy, Weller, Dunstan etc. I'd like to think that with 7 days a week up my sleeve and a few months off at the end of the year I could find a way to do it better. Membrey took a few weeks but worked it out. We saw Stewie Loewe sort his kicking out with help from Huddo. Hopefully some of our players pull their fingers out or go find something else to do for a living that they're a little bit better at.
 
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Cheers for that. Yeah there's been quit a lot of talk about that on here. Mostly half joking, but if we can see that Richo is picking players on something other than form, I'm sure the players would get frustrated by that too. He seems to think winning games of footy is about effort rather than ability. As such we've got a bunch of skill-less "triers" out there. Some of the guys who are a bit less bash-and-crash get dropped after 1 or 2 quiet games, but others such as Newnes and Weller get played all year regardless.
I laughed the other night when Joey explained Seb being sent back as "Richo likes to get some of his better ball users behind the ball". Ross played a really good game the other night, but anybody (except for one guy on here who defends him endlessly) can see his ball use and disposal had been putrid for months until the other night. Richo seems to pick players based on what he's seen them produce in the past. That must be frustrating for some of the players who are playing well (if a bit inconsistently) but don't get a good run at it, or who are pushed out to some kind of unfamiliar role.

Having said that. I'm frustrated with Richo, but I'm not calling for his head. I think regardless of the bizarre decisions Richo makes, and me not really buying into what he's about as a coach...regardless of that the players as professionals have got to be better at finding ways to improve. If I was a pro and I kicked the ball like Geary, Ross, Paddy, Weller, Dunstan etc. I'd like to think that with 7 days a week up my sleeve and a few months off at the end of the year I could find a way to do it better. Membrey took a few weeks but worked it out. We saw Stewie Loewe sort his kicking out with help from Huddo. Hopefully some of our players pull their fingers out or go find something else to do for a living that they're a little bit better at.
Its a really interesting discussion re favouritism and selection. Happens everywhere of course, but it really speaks to what the coach values.

Lets say there are 10 walk up starts for rd 1 next year: Membery, Carlisle, Gresh, Robbo, Steven, Billings, Clark, Coff, Webb and Paddy (lets just leave Paddy up here for a moment because otherwise the discussion gets fixated on him)

Now ... you have to find another 11 to surround them by (again I am taking Hickey / Longer out to avoid that sideshow)

Option 1 is the 11 favourites who when fit consistently get picked: Geary, Weller, Armo, Newnes, Ross, Brown, Gilbo, McKenzie, Dunstan, Long and Savage

Option 2 is the 11 struggling to get a decent go / played in position: White, Rice, Austin, Steele, Acres, Lonie, Goddard, Sincs, Paton, Freezer and Roma

Now you can argue one or two either way (and I have left a few out) but basically you have the group of Richo's boys vs the others. And you prioritise the types of players you mainly want to select accordingly (and sprinkle a few of the others in as required for team balance etc).

Is there another coach in the league that IN A DEVELOPMENT YEAR would consistently pick most of group 1 over most of group 2?

Edit: Funnily enough, the only one I can think of is Ross!
 
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Saintbloke

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Regardless of deficiencies in the playing group- we WILL NOT move forward until Richo is replaced, and probably a challenge to the board who have let the club just turn to sh*t...not in a year or two but over 5 or more years. It is unacceptable and we should not be making excuses for failure...thats the Saints old fallback over decades. We need strong leadership from the top.
 

Saint Watto

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but I can’t stay silent and let him ruin players careers. Our club is in crisis and if we do indeed keep Richo for at least another year then I shudder to think where our footy club will be at. I won’t say anymore, I’m just so upset with where my club is at and where it’s headed. Bloody heartbreaking.
When you put it the way you have there Ghost……….it is absolutely gut wrenching and absolutely heartbreaking...…..and bloody frustrating.

What terrifies me is that if the status quo remains the same next year......we've lost another year of player development…...will we ever see the best of the younger ones or at least what their truly capable of.

Treading water is the best analogy I can think of.
 

Saint Watto

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we have referenced Richmond a lot over the last 12 months. a lot. especially in crisis interviews.
IMO that was Prez in crisis/spin mode...…….the club was and still is....under the pump and he knew it.

They all did.

He was putting out more spin than a tumble dryer!

It was not a good look when about round 9 when the blowtorch was on the club...Prez...Simon L ...Richo and Matt F all made statements and all basically said different stuff.

I thought....does anyone talk to each other?

It was a very bad look.....I could even say amateur hour.

A little birdie told me after that debacle that Prez was going to be the spokesman from then on....I raised my eyebrows at that one.

It soon became obvious that Simon L was then to become spokesman on all footy matters.
 

Saint Watto

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did we do anything to stop JJ's influence. like literally anything at all?
As Mowman mentioned....we did zero.

I found it very galling to yesterday see on the AFL site in the "9 things we learnt from the round" article that JJ picked up a lazy 42 which was a PB...….and he had point NO-9 in the article all to himself.

How often do we grant oppo players a PB?

Or play them or their team into form.

Infuriating!!!!!!
 

Saint Watto

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1. Richo has the players. And they continue to, multiple times per year, let teams get run-ons and then do nothing/are unable to stop it. Still can't believe we let THAT Bulldogs team get a 72 point turnaround on us.
I have to say that the big run-ons against us had my alarm bells ringing re Richo…..the first being round 1 last season....the game against the Dee's.

Up until then I had a pretty open mind regarding him.

10 straight goals from memory and nothing done to try and stem it.

A few games later against the Cats.......8 goals in the last 1/4.

And this season....teams usually get away to a big start against us...….us fighting back later in the game and expecting to win is just unrealistic...…...you normally use all yr gas tics and lose......the Suns game being one out of the sky.

I always use the 30 point marker …….statistically......when a team is 30 or more points up...I think the stat is they will win 80% of the time.

We nearly got to that in the 2nd 1/4.

As you said Narkle…...a 72 point turn around by the Dogs....that's friggin disgraceful.
 
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Regardless of deficiencies in the playing group- we WILL NOT move forward until Richo is replaced, and probably a challenge to the board who have let the club just turn to sh*t...not in a year or two but over 5 or more years. It is unacceptable and we should not be making excuses for failure...thats the Saints old fallback over decades. We need strong leadership from the top.
I asked how a board challenge comes about, was deleted from a moderator the post. Do you have any idea on member numbers to get any changes done through a petition etc?? I’ll happily start it and take it to a game, signatures wont take long I’m sure!
 

George

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Speaking as an outsider with some minor intel: a couple of the St Kilda boys that I have had dealings with this year have dropped a few hints that they are unhappy with what they perceive as preferential treatment towards some by Richo.
Yep you are correct. Been hearing this all year from one of them.
 

Saintbloke

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I asked how a board challenge comes about, was deleted from a moderator the post. Do you have any idea on member numbers to get any changes done through a petition etc?? I’ll happily start it and take it to a game, signatures wont take long I’m sure!
Not as easy as we think. There needs to be an alternative ticket who provides a challenge, but should prove that the current board is not carrying out its obligations -all or some of. It could be that the current president would stand down if there was a strong challenge to he, and then the directors stand down...but until there is a valid, strong challenge with a lot of ammunition then nothing much will happen.
 
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