Analysis The Clarkson Rebuild Model - A Reason For Optimism

Brishawk

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Last night hurt. It did. Not only because any loss to the scum hurts but because it mad a lie of the belief that we are fundamentally only a few soldiers short of a premiership list. Take out Mitchell, Lewis and Hill...replace them with O'meara, Mitchell and Henderson. Replace the departed Hale with Vickery. One soldier for another until we are back on top. That is the Clarkson model right?

After a match in 2012 in which Poppy had missed a simple shot for goal and it cost us the match, Clarkson told Poppy that he needed to learn composure; that in order to continue to play up forward he had to make good decisions under pressure and if he couldn't do it he [Clarkson] would need to find Poppy another role. Note, he didn't threaten to drop him, just find another role on the field that he could do. Even as much as Clarkson preaches processes and systems over personal, he places his absolute faith in people to win matches. That is why he recruited Burgoyne. That is why he played Hodge and Ellis in the 2012 grand final (yes, it doesn't always work). So to discard Mitchell and Lewis is a massive statement about where he thinks the list is relative to those two players.

In 2009 when injuries ravaged the squad and wins became hard to come by it was Clarkson's faith in the players that would return that caused him to retain a dysfunctional game plan through the first half of 2010. In round 6 2010 we were hammered by Essendon to the tune of 43 points. After the match Kennet famously confronted Clarkson, Fox and Evans, drew an inverted pyramid on a whiteboard, and reminded them that they sat at the bottom of that pyramid. The message was clear. Change or be changed.

From the team that lost to Essendon in round 6 2010 to the team that lost a heart breaking preliminary final to Collingwood less than 18 months later there were eight changes. All eight would go on to win a premiership (or three) with Hawthorn in the next four years. In fact only four players in that loss were not part of our premiership threepete with only two who were also not part of 2008 (Murphy and Whitecross - still hoping for Whitey!) That is a big transformation of the team and a massive change in fortunes orchestrated very quickly. Once Clarkson understood the players he was using were not up to it he looked for and found players who were. Four of the eight players came from off the list over the offseason (Poppy, Hale, Gibson and Smith). Bailey, Burgoyne (arrived in 2009), Mitchell and Suckling were already on the list. A further three players on the list did not play that day but would go on to win premierships (Breust, Duryea and Roughead). So we can see player development was a very important part of the transformation from bottom dwellers to powerhouse. So too was finding a few diamonds in the rough via the draft. So for me the question isn't can Clarkson rebuild the list or where will he find the players with the talent, competitiveness and commitment to achieve success, its does he yet know who among those who played last night are able to take us forward and who should be put to pasture? Kennet isn't there any longer to realign his thoughts. Neither is Fagan. Hoping Clarkson has mastered self reflection and can ask honest questions of himself and the list. I know he can rebuild the list, its just a matter of whether or not he is capable of making that honest assessment.

I think the departure of Mitchell and Lewis demonstrates that he at least knows in what ballpark our team is in so I think it is fair to say the rebuild is underway. What is important to realise is that two weeks after losing to Essendon there were seven changes to to the team that ran out and narrowly defeated Richmond (thank you Sam Mitchell!), four of which were never apart of a premiership team but that win got the team moving in the right direction for the rest of the year. There is going to be some short term needs put above our premiership ambition either to ensure competitiveness or due to injuries etc. It isn't going to be all smooth sailing. The seas are going to get rough and we are going to want to mutiny. But we have the right captain and he can see us through this storm. The storm will pass and we will rebuild. We will be strong again. Go Hawks!
 

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Fail Better

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Just a slight correction. Gibson came with Burgoyne at end of '09. Just that he missed a sizeable chunk of '10 through injury (from memory he went down in Round 3 v Bulldogs, came back in Round 15 v Geelong).

Round 8 '10 was Burgoyne's first game for Hawthorn.
 

threesixpio

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Last night hurt. It did. Not only because any loss to the scum hurts but because it mad a lie of the belief that we are fundamentally only a few soldiers short of a premiership list. Take out Mitchell, Lewis and Hill...replace them with O'meara, Mitchell and Henderson. Replace the departed Hale with Vickery. One soldier for another until we are back on top. That is the Clarkson model right?

After a match in 2012 in which Poppy had missed a simple shot for goal and it cost us the match, Clarkson told Poppy that he needed to learn composure; that in order to continue to play up forward he had to make good decisions under pressure and if he couldn't do it he [Clarkson] would need to find Poppy another role. Note, he didn't threaten to drop him, just find another role on the field that he could do. Even as much as Clarkson preaches processes and systems over personal, he places his absolute faith in people to win matches. That is why he recruited Burgoyne. That is why he played Hodge and Ellis in the 2012 grand final (yes, it doesn't always work). So to discard Mitchell and Lewis is a massive statement about where he thinks the list is relative to those two players.

In 2009 when injuries ravaged the squad and wins became hard to come by it was Clarkson's faith in the players that would return that caused him to retain a dysfunctional game plan through the first half of 2010. In round 6 2010 we were hammered by Essendon to the tune of 43 points. After the match Kennet famously confronted Clarkson, Fox and Evans, drew an inverted pyramid on a whiteboard, and reminded them that they sat at the bottom of that pyramid. The message was clear. Change or be changed.

From the team that lost to Essendon in round 6 2010 to the team that lost a heart breaking preliminary final to Collingwood less than 18 months later there were eight changes. All eight would go on to win a premiership (or three) with Hawthorn in the next four years. In fact only four players in that loss were not part of our premiership threepete with only two who were also not part of 2008 (Murphy and Whitecross - still hoping for Whitey!) That is a big transformation of the team and a massive change in fortunes orchestrated very quickly. Once Clarkson understood the players he was using were not up to it he looked for and found players who were. Four of the eight players came from off the list over the offseason (Poppy, Hale, Gibson and Smith). Bailey, Burgoyne (arrived in 2009), Mitchell and Suckling were already on the list. A further three players on the list did not play that day but would go on to win premierships (Breust, Duryea and Roughead). So we can see player development was a very important part of the transformation from bottom dwellers to powerhouse. So too was finding a few diamonds in the rough via the draft. So for me the question isn't can Clarkson rebuild the list or where will he find the players with the talent, competitiveness and commitment to achieve success, its does he yet know who among those who played last night are able to take us forward and who should be put to pasture? Kennet isn't there any longer to realign his thoughts. Neither is Fagan. Hoping Clarkson has mastered self reflection and can ask honest questions of himself and the list. I know he can rebuild the list, its just a matter of whether or not he is capable of making that honest assessment.

I think the departure of Mitchell and Lewis demonstrates that he at least knows in what ballpark our team is in so I think it is fair to say the rebuild is underway. What is important to realise is that two weeks after losing to Essendon there were seven changes to to the team that ran out and narrowly defeated Richmond (thank you Sam Mitchell!), four of which were never apart of a premiership team but that win got the team moving in the right direction for the rest of the year. There is going to be some short term needs put above our premiership ambition either to ensure competitiveness or due to injuries etc. It isn't going to be all smooth sailing. The seas are going to get rough and we are going to want to mutiny. But we have the right captain and he can see us through this storm. The storm will pass and we will rebuild. We will be strong again. Go Hawks!
TLDR

(only kidding - great post!)
 

MadDawg

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I have no doubt Clarko will work this out one way or another, but his stubbornness can be his greatest strength and greatest weakness.

At the moment, I worry the sands have shifted a bit with our personnel and how the game is played, but he has not adapted yet.

I did not like the team we selected vs Essendrugs, far too tall for the modern game and the desire to play Shoenmakers forward has pushed Gunston to the wing and Sicily to the backline and it looked awful.
 

Rushed_Behind

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I have no doubt Clarko will work this out one way or another, but his stubbornness can be his greatest strength and greatest weakness.

At the moment, I worry the sands have shifted a bit with our personnel and how the game is played, but he has not adapted yet.

I did not like the team we selected vs Essendrugs, far too tall for the modern game and the desire to play Shoenmakers forward has pushed Gunston to the wing and Sicily to the backline and it looked awful.
This so much. We were beaten in the coach's box last night. That ball was moved so easily out of our forward line into theirs I was tearing my hair out.
 

Wbby

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good thing we have a few free agents on the way in the off season. 2017 just getting games into kids. Will be in trouble if Gibson, Burgoyne and Hodge play most games. Need games into the next gen
 

Brishawk

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To contextualise last night, Clarkson most certainly picked an experienced side to maximise team stability and cohesion. We already introduced four big changes to the list to accomodate plus the absence of hodge from our final loss to the bulldogs last year. Change is happening but Clarko isn't the kind of coach to make wholesale changes (unforced) from one game to the next. I'm sure he thought we could win with what we put on the park and slowly introduce more players through the season to transition the squad from old to new. It didn't work so will be interesting to see what moves he makes, if any, over the off season.
 

onthemoney

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#10
I have no doubt Clarko will work this out one way or another, but his stubbornness can be his greatest strength and greatest weakness.

At the moment, I worry the sands have shifted a bit with our personnel and how the game is played, but he has not adapted yet.

I did not like the team we selected vs Essendrugs, far too tall for the modern game and the desire to play Shoenmakers forward has pushed Gunston to the wing and Sicily to the backline and it looked awful.
I suspect Sicily back is still part of the typical Clarko "modern day forwards need to have a defensive side!" apprenticeship, but Gunston baffled me. I heard (was at the game and didn't know) that we were low on rotations in the last quarter and that's why Mitchell was resting at Full Forward for a period, but Jesus H Spangher it was frustrating watching us kick to nothing throughout the game while Gunston was far up the ground.

This so much. We were beaten in the coach's box last night. That ball was moved so easily out of our forward line into theirs I was tearing my hair out.
I haven't watched the replay yet, but at the game it did feel like we just tried to push through with the same plan even when it wasn't working. Frustrating, but the season is young.
 

HR Roughnstuf

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Last night hurt. It did. Not only because any loss to the scum hurts but because it mad a lie of the belief that we are fundamentally only a few soldiers short of a premiership list. Take out Mitchell, Lewis and Hill...replace them with O'meara, Mitchell and Henderson. Replace the departed Hale with Vickery. One soldier for another until we are back on top. That is the Clarkson model right?

After a match in 2012 in which Poppy had missed a simple shot for goal and it cost us the match, Clarkson told Poppy that he needed to learn composure; that in order to continue to play up forward he had to make good decisions under pressure and if he couldn't do it he [Clarkson] would need to find Poppy another role. Note, he didn't threaten to drop him, just find another role on the field that he could do. Even as much as Clarkson preaches processes and systems over personal, he places his absolute faith in people to win matches. That is why he recruited Burgoyne. That is why he played Hodge and Ellis in the 2012 grand final (yes, it doesn't always work). So to discard Mitchell and Lewis is a massive statement about where he thinks the list is relative to those two players.

In 2009 when injuries ravaged the squad and wins became hard to come by it was Clarkson's faith in the players that would return that caused him to retain a dysfunctional game plan through the first half of 2010. In round 6 2010 we were hammered by Essendon to the tune of 43 points. After the match Kennet famously confronted Clarkson, Fox and Evans, drew an inverted pyramid on a whiteboard, and reminded them that they sat at the bottom of that pyramid. The message was clear. Change or be changed.

From the team that lost to Essendon in round 6 2010 to the team that lost a heart breaking preliminary final to Collingwood less than 18 months later there were eight changes. All eight would go on to win a premiership (or three) with Hawthorn in the next four years. In fact only four players in that loss were not part of our premiership threepete with only two who were also not part of 2008 (Murphy and Whitecross - still hoping for Whitey!) That is a big transformation of the team and a massive change in fortunes orchestrated very quickly. Once Clarkson understood the players he was using were not up to it he looked for and found players who were. Four of the eight players came from off the list over the offseason (Poppy, Hale, Gibson and Smith). Bailey, Burgoyne (arrived in 2009), Mitchell and Suckling were already on the list. A further three players on the list did not play that day but would go on to win premierships (Breust, Duryea and Roughead). So we can see player development was a very important part of the transformation from bottom dwellers to powerhouse. So too was finding a few diamonds in the rough via the draft. So for me the question isn't can Clarkson rebuild the list or where will he find the players with the talent, competitiveness and commitment to achieve success, its does he yet know who among those who played last night are able to take us forward and who should be put to pasture? Kennet isn't there any longer to realign his thoughts. Neither is Fagan. Hoping Clarkson has mastered self reflection and can ask honest questions of himself and the list. I know he can rebuild the list, its just a matter of whether or not he is capable of making that honest assessment.

I think the departure of Mitchell and Lewis demonstrates that he at least knows in what ballpark our team is in so I think it is fair to say the rebuild is underway. What is important to realise is that two weeks after losing to Essendon there were seven changes to to the team that ran out and narrowly defeated Richmond (thank you Sam Mitchell!), four of which were never apart of a premiership team but that win got the team moving in the right direction for the rest of the year. There is going to be some short term needs put above our premiership ambition either to ensure competitiveness or due to injuries etc. It isn't going to be all smooth sailing. The seas are going to get rough and we are going to want to mutiny. But we have the right captain and he can see us through this storm. The storm will pass and we will rebuild. We will be strong again. Go Hawks!
Last night's game was pretty indicative of how my mood has been towards football since last years trade period. I'm not surprised at all with the efforts or lack there of of the team last night. You don't trade away your greatest player of the last 20 years and probably top 5 of all time for nothing and then expect the culture and team chemistry to remain intact.

The problem here was created by the football department at the end of last year. Of the veterans that were moved on, they picked the wrong two. Simple. I'm not going to name names but you only need to read the game day thread from last nights game to know the players that have played on maybe 1 too many years. The problem was that Hawthorn were sitting two games clear on top of the ladder late in the season last year. The main indicator that the club should have been looking at should have been percentage which was woeful compared to the other top teams. From the end of 2015 most supporters had heard whispers of 2-2-2 when it came to the retirement of the veterans and Hale and Lake kicked it off in 2015. However, the club lost its nerve towards the end of the H&A season and signed up ALL of the veterans.

To Clarko and Co's credit they realised the error of their ways but unfortunately now all the veterans had contracts and the club had lost the flexibility in choosing who they could move on. My understanding is that the opportunity was put to all or atleast most, and Mitchell and Lewis were the ones to take it up, the wrong two players.

The 2009-10 'rebuild' is completely different to the clubs current situation. At that time the club clearly had several elite players that they could build a team around, Hodge and Mitchell with 25/6, Roughead, Buddy and Lewis were early 20's and Cyril was only 20. With the exception of Burgoyne all recruits brought into the club were brought in to fill a pretty clearly defined role.

Obviously the club knows that they need to bring in elite youth, which JOM and T Mitchell are definitely that, but the most disappointing thing I found with last night's game was that the team were basically playing the same game plan which had already been rendered ineffective last year. I give Clarko and the coaches a lot of credit in orchestrating a game plan to maximise the strengths of the team in the 2011-2015 era but now it is just not working. I remember laughing at Richmond when they tried to blindly implement the Hawks game plan with shit skills. They got smash for weeks until they reverted. A number of times the Hawks turned over the ball last night showed that the team no longer has this competitive advantage. They need to find a new one, and it appears they have already wasted one preseasons opportunity to do so.
 

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sohsam

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Spectacular post, Brishawk. I'm persuaded and along for the ride.
Who knows really. I still cannot believe we have won 3 premierships in a row, what a fantastic achievement. We will not know if we had chance for another flag if we kept lewis/Mitchell, would have been hard. Now like everyone else go into rebuild for a chance and it is only a chance to win another Flag. On Yesterday's performance T Mitchell & J O'meara are not in same class as Lewis/Mitchell, however their past performances for their previous clubs would suggest otherwise, so probably need time. There will be retirement of few more of our great players. I am still not comfortable with not retiring our great players but I understand if they want to extend their careers elsewhere. There is so much luck involved with re build and being able to compete again for another flag, you need nucleus of 12-15 very good players and the rest still being reasonable to good. You look at our players that got us the premierships- Burgoyne, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Lake, Gunston, Bruest, Poppy, Roughead, Rioli, Gibson, Smith, Birchall, Stratton. Rebuild need to have good core of players looking at GWS, Bulldogs, Melbourne, etc. I am sure O'Meara better than what he showed yesterday, his decision making was off, T Mitchell while solid not brilliant.
 

Gralin

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Who knows really. I still cannot believe we have won 3 premierships in a row, what a fantastic achievement. We will not know if we had chance for another flag if we kept lewis/Mitchell, would have been hard. Now like everyone else go into rebuild for a chance and it is only a chance to win another Flag. On Yesterday's performance T Mitchell & J O'meara are not in same class as Lewis/Mitchell, however their past performances for their previous clubs would suggest otherwise, so probably need time. There will be retirement of few more of our great players. I am still not comfortable with not retiring our great players but I understand if they want to extend their careers elsewhere. There is so much luck involved with re build and being able to compete again for another flag, you need nucleus of 12-15 very good players and the rest still being reasonable to good. You look at our players that got us the premierships- Burgoyne, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Lake, Gunston, Bruest, Poppy, Roughead, Rioli, Gibson, Smith, Birchall, Stratton. Rebuild need to have good core of players looking at GWS, Bulldogs, Melbourne, etc. I am sure O'Meara better than what he showed yesterday, his decision making was off, T Mitchell while solid not brilliant.
First real game together for those blokes, practice and practice matches help build familiarity but you really only get to know your game day team mates on game day.

First real game for Jaeger in over two years, first game in front of over 50k ever.

We are comparing their output to not just a couple of champions of our club but guys who had played together 200 odd times

They will take time to gel but they aren't a bad core to build our next midfield around
 

Brishawk

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Last night's game was pretty indicative of how my mood has been towards football since last years trade period. I'm not surprised at all with the efforts or lack there of of the team last night. You don't trade away your greatest player of the last 20 years and probably top 5 of all time for nothing and then expect the culture and team chemistry to remain intact.

The problem here was created by the football department at the end of last year. Of the veterans that were moved on, they picked the wrong two. Simple. I'm not going to name names but you only need to read the game day thread from last nights game to know the players that have played on maybe 1 too many years. The problem was that Hawthorn were sitting two games clear on top of the ladder late in the season last year. The main indicator that the club should have been looking at should have been percentage which was woeful compared to the other top teams. From the end of 2015 most supporters had heard whispers of 2-2-2 when it came to the retirement of the veterans and Hale and Lake kicked it off in 2015. However, the club lost its nerve towards the end of the H&A season and signed up ALL of the veterans.

To Clarko and Co's credit they realised the error of their ways but unfortunately now all the veterans had contracts and the club had lost the flexibility in choosing who they could move on. My understanding is that the opportunity was put to all or atleast most, and Mitchell and Lewis were the ones to take it up, the wrong two players.

The 2009-10 'rebuild' is completely different to the clubs current situation. At that time the club clearly had several elite players that they could build a team around, Hodge and Mitchell with 25/6, Roughead, Buddy and Lewis were early 20's and Cyril was only 20. With the exception of Burgoyne all recruits brought into the club were brought in to fill a pretty clearly defined role.

Obviously the club knows that they need to bring in elite youth, which JOM and T Mitchell are definitely that, but the most disappointing thing I found with last night's game was that the team were basically playing the same game plan which had already been rendered ineffective last year. I give Clarko and the coaches a lot of credit in orchestrating a game plan to maximise the strengths of the team in the 2011-2015 era but now it is just not working. I remember laughing at Richmond when they tried to blindly implement the Hawks game plan with shit skills. They got smash for weeks until they reverted. A number of times the Hawks turned over the ball last night showed that the team no longer has this competitive advantage. They need to find a new one, and it appears they have already wasted one preseasons opportunity to do so.
I have a lot of sympathy for what you are saying. I'll just point this out that last year (2009 equivilant) our game plan was exposed by structural personal (roughy, shoey and a replacement for hale) were missing. So when we kicked long into the forward line we were kicking to poppy and Rioli or a lumbering ruckman. I can appreciate why Clarko would believe that with those structural players returned (roughy also being a very good clearance mid) plus some younger grunt in the middle, that we might have being able to develop our new players in a system the old players new well. Early signs are it was a bad call but I can understand why it was made.
 

VandoHawk

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Who knows really. I still cannot believe we have won 3 premierships in a row, what a fantastic achievement. We will not know if we had chance for another flag if we kept lewis/Mitchell, would have been hard. Now like everyone else go into rebuild for a chance and it is only a chance to win another Flag. On Yesterday's performance T Mitchell & J O'meara are not in same class as Lewis/Mitchell, however their past performances for their previous clubs would suggest otherwise, so probably need time. There will be retirement of few more of our great players. I am still not comfortable with not retiring our great players but I understand if they want to extend their careers elsewhere. There is so much luck involved with re build and being able to compete again for another flag, you need nucleus of 12-15 very good players and the rest still being reasonable to good. You look at our players that got us the premierships- Burgoyne, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Lake, Gunston, Bruest, Poppy, Roughead, Rioli, Gibson, Smith, Birchall, Stratton. Rebuild need to have good core of players looking at GWS, Bulldogs, Melbourne, etc. I am sure O'Meara better than what he showed yesterday, his decision making was off, T Mitchell while solid not brilliant.
T Mitch really was brilliant. He almost single handedly kept our midfield competitive at one stage. His stats for his first game are incredible, and his impact cannot be understated. Despite the namesake he should be compared to Lewis, and IMO the game he played against the Bombers was exactly what Lewis would have given us and even more. His disposal efficiency wasn't the greatest, but I'd argue that neither was that of Lewis last year. That was legit the only bad part of his game (and it was much better than our other mids). His contested prowess, ability to win the ball, get down and dirty and even be a link player were all great this game and as he gels with the team they'll get better. He wasn't as slow as a treacle either, which was one of his supposed weaknesses. With all respect to Lewis, TMitch seems like the younger model. Very much in the same league.

Jaegar wasn't in the same league as Sam, but he also hasn't played a proper game in two years. His efficiency was bad but in his first game for a new club in two years he gathered 22 disposals, had multiple chances to impact the scoreboard and will genuinely be better with game time into his legs. Promising signs, and as he gets more confident with his body, the structures and his teammates he'll only get better. His disposal will never be as clinical as Sammy's but he'll provide us with much more grunt, ability to win contested ball and more importantly speed.

This year you'll probably be under the impression that we downgraded. But next year - as Sam/Jordan reach the twilight of their careers and we have two young guns coming into their prime (and maybe the addition of a gun free agent or two :p) they'll very much be in the same league.
 

sohsam

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T Mitch really was brilliant. He almost single handedly kept our midfield competitive at one stage. His stats for his first game are incredible, and his impact cannot be understated. Despite the namesake he should be compared to Lewis, and IMO the game he played against the Bombers was exactly what Lewis would have given us and even more. His disposal efficiency wasn't the greatest, but I'd argue that neither was that of Lewis last year. That was legit the only bad part of his game (and it was much better than our other mids). His contested prowess, ability to win the ball, get down and dirty and even be a link player were all great this game and as he gels with the team they'll get better. He wasn't as slow as a treacle either, which was one of his supposed weaknesses. With all respect to Lewis, TMitch seems like the younger model. Very much in the same league.

Jaegar wasn't in the same league as Sam, but he also hasn't played a proper game in two years. His efficiency was bad but in his first game for a new club in two years he gathered 22 disposals, had multiple chances to impact the scoreboard and will genuinely be better with game time into his legs. Promising signs, and as he gets more confident with his body, the structures and his teammates he'll only get better. His disposal will never be as clinical as Sammy's but he'll provide us with much more grunt, ability to win contested ball and more importantly speed.

This year you'll probably be under the impression that we downgraded. But next year - as Sam/Jordan reach the twilight of their careers and we have two young guns coming into their prime (and maybe the addition of a gun free agent or two :p) they'll very much be in the same league.
Only time will tell, but Hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne will be coming to end of their careers too. Not easy to replace these guys. Perhaps being greedy but it hurt to lose the grand final against Sydney before we won 3 in a row and last year was a game of inches. We were so close to winning the final, except for that bad kick by Smith. I will take 3 premierships in a row any day, it will hard to top that. From what you have said if TMich did similar work to Lewis, only missing Hodge/S Mitchell and gained Roughead, should have easily accounted for Essendon whose many players have not played for a whole year, but we looked way off the pace. The question is if we had kept Mitchell/Lewis and still could have brought in T Mitchell / J O'Meara would we have had a chance at premiership this year? from the game yesterday, probably not. Yes you are right, never discount free agent, if the price is right.
 
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#20
Great post but what it doesn't address is the change in game plan to coincide with the change in personnel. I think that is one of Clarksons strengths and unfortunately for us it's still early days and we can't quite see what he is trying to achieve


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BayernMunchen
#21
clarko did what he did as to not go through the full rebuild mode! that is a no-no in these times. Mitch and Jag are absolutely great gets and along with Shiels and Langford, they will be a very good combo in the middle in years to come. But the question is, will some of our current players be there in 2019-20 for the rise?? especially the 28-29 and over players? this is what kind of worries me that we may have to develop all ends of the ground by the time we're ready for another tilt. on the other hand there's FA or Josh Kelly who's still un-signed! one more elite mid and 2018 even looks a possibility.
 

brew

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#23
First real game together for those blokes, practice and practice matches help build familiarity but you really only get to know your game day team mates on game day.

First real game for Jaeger in over two years, first game in front of over 50k ever.

We are comparing their output to not just a couple of champions of our club but guys who had played together 200 odd times

They will take time to gel but they aren't a bad core to build our next midfield around
None of our recruits set the world on fire early.

SB - nope fractured cheek

Hale- nope... not until after he hurt his knee against St Kilda

Gibbo- Barry Hall NAB match anyway

Frawley- Nope... people even asked for his head first final 2015

It will take TY and JO time

Enjoy the ride
 

Kenyan

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#24
Great post but what it doesn't address is the change in game plan to coincide with the change in personnel. I think that is one of Clarksons strengths and unfortunately for us it's still early days and we can't quite see what he is trying to achieve


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Doesn't matter what game plan we are using when we kick so poorly. Love Will Langfords endeavour but his disposal by foot is very average.
 
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nil
Moderator #25
As fans the main things we see are:
- whether we win or lose
- how good/bad our skills were
- how players performed against our own expectations
- a general pattern of play
- how our whipping boys performed

What clarkson and the coaches see
- how players performed against the game plan
- how the opposition team responded to that game plan
- the progression of each player along a personal planned progression

It's a really different perspective and a coaching team can theoretically look at a loss like we had as a raging success. At the risk of sounding like Chris Scott "mission accomplished" a game like we had can be illuminating.

We looked sloppy and less energetic than essendon - this is very different to whether or not the game plan is working. This is the bit that is impossible for fans to discern - which portion of that 4 goal list is the strategy and which is the execution. If it was the right strategy and the execution was bad it might only need a 5% improvement from us to get a 60% improvement in the result it achieves.

I won't lie - that game has dampened my enthusiasm for the year. Solace comes from thinking it's part of a much bigger plan.

The game against Adelaide will be telling, and I'm thinking the following thoughts:
- a loss over 4 goals will require a sudden set of changes as we won't risk a 0-3 opening to the season
- a win would be a real surprise, but it would confirm that round 1 was an aberration
- another loss of 4 goals or less would be a massive improvement given how strong Adelaide looked.
- part of being a 30+ player means your peak performance window drops, so Gibson Burgoyne hodge and birchall won't hit their straps until mid season. Don't expect too much from them.
- if clarkson sees Adelaide as a much stronger team than us he will go really defensive. Expect almost no corridor play and lots of long kicks to contests. It's horrible to watch but he's done this every time we have been on the back foot within a season.
 
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