Analysis The Clarkson Rebuild Model - A Reason For Optimism

[crazywildhorse]

I can say broadly we are trying to use a zone to force a long kick to a favourable contest. I have deconstructed St Kilda's first goal below so we can all see where it is going wrong.

1. Stratton has received a kick in from hodge who had played on from the goal square and then ran past Stratton to create space behind him. Stratton can't switch play in board because the two hawks in front of goal don't move. The St Kilda player doesn't have to choose who to man as both players are close by. The player to the right of St Kilda's most forward player actually runs to him. Roo, far left, can sit in space rather than go to pick up a hawk. It would only take the two hawk players to run away from each other to either free one up for the switch or create space right where Roo is standing. Poo play.
View attachment 364703

2. Stratton ends up coming up field and we turn it over. Stratton is now on the mark and you can see we have set up a line of players across the field to stop them kicking short and on the 45 degree angle towards goal. Smith and Roughy are not really participating. They are our extras as we are more or less one on one behind the line.
View attachment 364705

3. Saints switch 45 degrees backward to a totally unmarked player in space. A hawk player comes from 30m away to man the mark. You can see Saints already have the next player all on his own on the far side. That is where the ball goes.View attachment 364707

4. Ball in flight. You can see TOB has pushed up to pressure the Saint player receiving the ball. Smith and Breust sliding across to close down options. They are behind the two saints players but in this case it doesn't matter.
View attachment 364708

5. The saint player marks and plays on quickly despite TOB's pressure. Howe pushes across to try and stop the next saint receiving the ball. If TOB gets to the Saint a little quicker he buys maybe a second or two for Howe to close down the space and possible prevent the pass.
View attachment 364709

6. Saint turns quickly and with no obvious short option, goes long. You can see our line has slide across and seems to have done the job in forcing a long kick. The white shoed player third from the right is Gibbo. He has come up from the defence following Bruce.
View attachment 364710

7. Membrey gets a free run at the ball and marks above Hodge. Burton has been engaging his direct opponent and out positioned him but could do nothing to stop Membrey. Hodge just not tall enough. Notice Frawley there on the far left. Stratton too. And Big Boy at the bottom.
View attachment 364711

8. Going back to a frame early in the passage of play. The arrows are the direction players run from this kick. From the left:
A. Smith (bottom left) pushes into the centre. By the time Membrey marks he is on the far side of the ground outside 50 m.
B. TOB (top left) pushes to the left of screen to defend a saint player.
C. Bruest pushes into the centre and eventually to just outside 50 on the far side.
D. Roughy. Not sure. Seems to be the only one not where he should be.
E. Unknown (top middle) Pushes to saint player who never receives the ball.
F. Langford (next in the line across the field) Pushes back inside 50.
G. McEvoy (next in line across the field) Pushes back inside 50 and eventually to wards the marking contest once the ball comes in.
H. Unknown (next in line across the field) Assume pushes back in 50 with the line.
I. Stratton (mailing the mark) Pushes back towards the Membrey mark.
J. Howe (behind the line just inside 50). Pushes towards the Saints player who eventually receives the ball outside and then kicks it to Membrey.
K. Frawley (to the right of Howe deep inside 50 but in front of the deepest saints players) Hard to see in this image but he is pointing and talking to Burton and maybe Gibbo. Frawley goes from here and pushes into the pocket in front of where the ball goes.
L. Gibbo (second last orange arrow) follows Bruce who makes a lead towards the far 50m arc in behind our line of defenders across the field. Does not receive the ball but forces Gibbo to follow.
M. Burton (our last Hawk to the right) tracks his opponent and Membrey. With Frawley zoning off he is in a two on one.
N. Blue Arrow AKA Hodge. Can't see him but he is to the right of screen and he is the one that makes the ground to try and contest the marking contest. Runs past literally all our defenders to do it.
View attachment 364712

What is obvious to me is that we are trying to play a composite zone/man on man defence. So for mine the problem is that we take too long to man the mark which allows Saints to move the ball on quickly to team mates well in space. Shortening the time getting to the mark would allow deeper defenders more time to slide across and cover the opposition. It would also give more time for players to re-organise opponents. Whatever Frawley is trying to organise doesn't happen how he thinks it will. If we are trying to cut off the short pass via that defensive line then why is gibbo chasing Bruce? Why does Frawley not recognise the issue and go to Membrey? Maybe if Burton is more experienced he tells Frawley to take Membrey...Why is roughy not participating? Roughy is basically our extra man at this point. Seems a poor use. I think Frawley thinks it is supposed to be him. Smith also takes a while to get into action. All this contributes to a break down in which Hodge tries to spoil Membrey. Time brought about slowing the play down means our defenders are in a position to put a body on Membrey. Better organisation/communication means Frawley goes to Membrey instead of guarding the short pass on the far side of the field. This doesn't seem so complicated that it can't work but it has lots of places, like any zone, where it can break down. IT strikes me as not so different to our defence previously but it is less well organised.

I'm glad you've gone and done this. It illustrates what I've suspected. What it particularly highlights is, you can have all the talent in the world, but if you're all at sea, there is nothing you can do about it. You can go chasing around the best ever players, and it helps, but at that level, most of them should be able to do enough. The brains trust has gotten it wrong, they need to come up with a solution with the cattle we have and move forward from there. When it becomes clear what direction we're traveling, then bring in players that strengthen it.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I can say broadly we are trying to use a zone to force a long kick to a favourable contest. I have deconstructed St Kilda's first goal below so we can all see where it is going wrong.

1. Stratton has received a kick in from hodge who had played on from the goal square and then ran past Stratton to create space behind him. Stratton can't switch play in board because the two hawks in front of goal don't move. The St Kilda player doesn't have to choose who to man as both players are close by. The player to the right of St Kilda's most forward player actually runs to him. Roo, far left, can sit in space rather than go to pick up a hawk. It would only take the two hawk players to run away from each other to either free one up for the switch or create space right where Roo is standing. Poo play.
View attachment 364703

2. Stratton ends up coming up field and we turn it over. Stratton is now on the mark and you can see we have set up a line of players across the field to stop them kicking short and on the 45 degree angle towards goal. Smith and Roughy are not really participating. They are our extras as we are more or less one on one behind the line.
View attachment 364705

3. Saints switch 45 degrees backward to a totally unmarked player in space. A hawk player comes from 30m away to man the mark. You can see Saints already have the next player all on his own on the far side. That is where the ball goes.View attachment 364707

4. Ball in flight. You can see TOB has pushed up to pressure the Saint player receiving the ball. Smith and Breust sliding across to close down options. They are behind the two saints players but in this case it doesn't matter.
View attachment 364708

5. The saint player marks and plays on quickly despite TOB's pressure. Howe pushes across to try and stop the next saint receiving the ball. If TOB gets to the Saint a little quicker he buys maybe a second or two for Howe to close down the space and possible prevent the pass.
View attachment 364709

6. Saint turns quickly and with no obvious short option, goes long. You can see our line has slide across and seems to have done the job in forcing a long kick. The white shoed player third from the right is Gibbo. He has come up from the defence following Bruce.
View attachment 364710

7. Membrey gets a free run at the ball and marks above Hodge. Burton has been engaging his direct opponent and out positioned him but could do nothing to stop Membrey. Hodge just not tall enough. Notice Frawley there on the far left. Stratton too. And Big Boy at the bottom.
View attachment 364711

8. Going back to a frame early in the passage of play. The arrows are the direction players run from this kick. From the left:
A. Smith (bottom left) pushes into the centre. By the time Membrey marks he is on the far side of the ground outside 50 m.
B. TOB (top left) pushes to the left of screen to defend a saint player.
C. Bruest pushes into the centre and eventually to just outside 50 on the far side.
D. Roughy. Not sure. Seems to be the only one not where he should be.
E. Unknown (top middle) Pushes to saint player who never receives the ball.
F. Langford (next in the line across the field) Pushes back inside 50.
G. McEvoy (next in line across the field) Pushes back inside 50 and eventually to wards the marking contest once the ball comes in.
H. Unknown (next in line across the field) Assume pushes back in 50 with the line.
I. Stratton (mailing the mark) Pushes back towards the Membrey mark.
J. Howe (behind the line just inside 50). Pushes towards the Saints player who eventually receives the ball outside and then kicks it to Membrey.
K. Frawley (to the right of Howe deep inside 50 but in front of the deepest saints players) Hard to see in this image but he is pointing and talking to Burton and maybe Gibbo. Frawley goes from here and pushes into the pocket in front of where the ball goes.
L. Gibbo (second last orange arrow) follows Bruce who makes a lead towards the far 50m arc in behind our line of defenders across the field. Does not receive the ball but forces Gibbo to follow.
M. Burton (our last Hawk to the right) tracks his opponent and Membrey. With Frawley zoning off he is in a two on one.
N. Blue Arrow AKA Hodge. Can't see him but he is to the right of screen and he is the one that makes the ground to try and contest the marking contest. Runs past literally all our defenders to do it.
View attachment 364712

What is obvious to me is that we are trying to play a composite zone/man on man defence. So for mine the problem is that we take too long to man the mark which allows Saints to move the ball on quickly to team mates well in space. Shortening the time getting to the mark would allow deeper defenders more time to slide across and cover the opposition. It would also give more time for players to re-organise opponents. Whatever Frawley is trying to organise doesn't happen how he thinks it will. If we are trying to cut off the short pass via that defensive line then why is gibbo chasing Bruce? Why does Frawley not recognise the issue and go to Membrey? Maybe if Burton is more experienced he tells Frawley to take Membrey...Why is roughy not participating? Roughy is basically our extra man at this point. Seems a poor use. I think Frawley thinks it is supposed to be him. Smith also takes a while to get into action. All this contributes to a break down in which Hodge tries to spoil Membrey. Time brought about slowing the play down means our defenders are in a position to put a body on Membrey. Better organisation/communication means Frawley goes to Membrey instead of guarding the short pass on the far side of the field. This doesn't seem so complicated that it can't work but it has lots of places, like any zone, where it can break down. IT strikes me as not so different to our defence previously but it is less well organised.

Nice post, thanks.

For all the points you highlight this is the one that really stood out for me:

"Why is roughy not participating? Roughy is basically our extra man at this point. Seems a poor use. I think Frawley thinks it is supposed to be him. Smith also takes a while to get into action. All this contributes to a break down in which Hodge tries to spoil Membrey."

Was Frawley right, I wonder? Was he the free man?

If Frawley wasn't the free man then who covers the short space?

Opposition movement has been too fast all season and (except against WC) we made insuficient midfield defensive effort. That's possibly and attitude and determination thing. Perhaps the side will slowly stiffen up and push harder.

But the backline breakdown is a different beast. It's not effort but understanding which is possibly the problem. Whether Frawley was right or wrong about being the free man is almost immaterial because whatever the answer he wasn't the only player that got it wrong. You mention that it's basically the same defense we have run for years, which if correct is troubling. What's caused them to forget their assignments?

Much to think about in your post.

 

[Brishawk]

To contrast how the saints set up, where we have our midfield in a line to stop the short and forty five degree kick forward, saints would have pushed their numbers into the defensive 50 and ensured they had the extra. Of the mids, Howe had pushed back but the forwards and smith took too long to set up. What is evident is that Frawley could have switched to man on man. As a group the defence was not awake. This was in the first five mins so fatigue is not an option. For anyone suggesting Gibbo is a leader of defence, he shows no sign of it in this passage. I think this part of the play should be easily fixed in time. Confidence, trust and knowing your role will come. Patientnce required. Adjustments to the strategy could help make things clearer but my guess is Clarko would want to see this pattern working correctly.

 

[Brishawk]

I should note, when I say it is the same, it broadly is but I'd have to go back over years of crappy footage to identify the differences. There are a lot of new faces in the team and being slightly out of position or being confused if you are marking or zoning costs us goals. It disturbs me that both Gibbo and Frawley were there and neither saw the situation for what it was.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I should note, when I say it is the same, it broadly is but I'd have to go back over years of crappy footage to identify the differences. There are a lot of new faces in the team and being slightly out of position or being confused if you are marking or zoning costs us goals. It disturbs me that both Gibbo and Frawley were there and neither saw the situation for what it was.

Yeah, it's seemed like this all year. It seems as if players are more focused on making sure they are following the rules than in watching the situation. Certainly more focused on their individual play than on awareness of their teammates' situation. It's what made me think that there must have been some pretty significant changes to responsibilities because it seems like everyone is quite inwardly focused, not reading the play.

I'm not asking you to trawl back over years of defensive setups to answer the question, I'm just surmising that it must have some significant differences to justify the lack of awareness in the players for whom situational awareness was previously second nature. But maybe it's as simple as the men just don't have the drive needed to run at an elite level. They are all skating a bit, focusing on themselves and waiting for something to happen.

 

[Brishawk]

Yeah, it's seemed like this all year. It seems as if players are more focused on making sure they are following the rules than in watching the situation. Certainly more focused on their individual play than on awareness of their teammates' situation. It's what made me think that there must have been some pretty significant changes to responsibilities because it seems like everyone is quite inwardly focused, not reading the play.

I'm not asking you to trawl back over years of defensive setups to answer the question, I'm just surmising that it must have some significant differences to justify the lack of awareness in the players for whom situational awareness was previously second nature. But maybe it's as simple as the men just don't have the drive needed to run at an elite level. They are all skating a bit, focusing on themselves and waiting for something to happen.

Maybe it's as simple as Gibbo used to run the defence but now the responsibility has fallen to Frawley and he just isn't as good at it? Not sure. I just can't recall it being that different but maybe the devil is in the detail.

 

[OzJohnnie]

Maybe it's as simple as Gibbo used to run the defence but now the responsibility has fallen to Frawley and he just isn't as good at it? Not sure. I just can't recall it being that different but maybe the devil is in the detail.

Yes, this is possible. I sure hope not because it's not to easy to fix "not as good at it". But perhaps with better midfield pressure, more settled communication and team gel, then Frawley will be able to lead better. If it's Frawley, then I'm hoping team maturity as the season progresses will make him a better leader (better tools, etc).

Anyways, we improving backline play to look forward to this year. And more pressure in the midfield.

 

[Brishawk]

Wallabies suffering from an inability to adapt and respond to unstructured play
Michael Cheika made an insightful admission in his press conference following Australia’s inexcusable 24-19 loss to Scotland at Allianz Stadium on Saturday. Commenting on the failure to capitalise on breaks against the run of play, the coach said: “A lot of the breaks we made came off the back of work … but we didn’t perhaps create those holes the way we’d like to normally so therefore we didn’t have enough support in there behind them.”

And there we have it, a perfect diagnosis of one of several diseases afflicting the Wallabies’ game: a coaching-ingrained inability to adapt and respond to unstructured play. It was surprising to hear Cheika lay bare this malady so matter-of-factly. But that pales in comparison to the incredulity of him not going on to condemn the fatal short-coming and offer assurances of plans afoot to ensure the pathosis is finally put down.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-and-respond-to-unstructured-play?CMP=soc_567

Seems the wallabies have a similar issue to the hawks. Be very interested to see if we have been working on changes to the way we play over the break. We entered the season with a handball happy game that didn't stack up. Switch to a more conservative play and banked a few wins but still not a threat to most teams. What will we see against the crows?

 

[Agent Smith]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-and-respond-to-unstructured-play?CMP=soc_567

Seems the wallabies have a similar issue to the hawks. Be very interested to see if we have been working on changes to the way we play over the break. We entered the season with a handball happy game that didn't stack up. Switch to a more conservative play and banked a few wins but still not a threat to most teams. What will we see against the crows?

Stop shouting!

 

[Brishawk]

Lol the bold from the article infect my whole post haha

 

[cryptor]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-and-respond-to-unstructured-play?CMP=soc_567

Seems the wallabies have a similar issue to the hawks. Be very interested to see if we have been working on changes to the way we play over the break. We entered the season with a handball happy game that didn't stack up. Switch to a more conservative play and banked a few wins but still not a threat to most teams. What will we see against the crows?

Hmm, that's quite the bold statement.

 

[Mrzohs]

the next 18 months is massive for our club we can all accept a rough year after so much success but 2 or 3 years on the bottem will be unacceptable with the departures of a best and fairest winner and a runner up. the jury is still out with this whole dingley adventure happening and listening to jeff kennett views on this it is a massive risk the club is taking on in non stable world, not the time you would want to be on the bottem for years to come.
i think it all starts with This 2nd half of the season, it may sound stupid but any potential suitors looking at our club will want to see a massive improvement and know we are back on the right track, I don't think we are that far off it and with a few key siqnatures, jom and the young boys coming on we can turn this around quick and will be more than competitive next season. minimal margin for error moving forward!

 

[shotgun_blues]

We have enough supporters and members to not revisit 1996. Just like then currently there is another whole new generation of supporters about to come through the gates as many kids would have been attracted to us over our golden period (Cyril, Buddy, Hodge & 4 flags) and lift us to higher membership numbers than ever before. Didn't we have twice as many junior members as Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond a year or so ago?

If this year is a total write-off so be it!! I'll take the bad with the good and honestly wouldn't mind a full bottoming out and quick draft rebuild over the 2018 & 2019 drafts to get in some 'elite' young KP & midfield talent with Top 5 picks. I'd trade anyone over 25 who is open to it, except Cyril, Smith & Gunston. IMO they are off the table. Along with some free agents we'll be witnessing a rebirth in 2020 with more members than ever before.

 

[Brishawk]

I'd like to see us attack through the corridor more. That is the number one priority. Learn to have the courage to keep going for it even when it doesn't come off. If you rewatch the 2008 gf you will see us try to kick to chb over and over again in order to open up the field. We missed the target several times in that first half but it also created goals for us. In the second half we kept going for them and nailed it enough to get us the win. Need that courage back and with all of hodge, burton, sicily, Birchall and Hardwick in defence we should be able to break open games with attacking kicks.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'd like to see us attack through the corridor more. That is the number one priority. Learn to have the courage to keep going for it even when it doesn't come off. If you rewatch the 2008 gf you will see us try to kick to chb over and over again in order to open up the field. We missed the target several times in that first half but it also created goals for us. In the second half we kept going for them and nailed it enough to get us the win. Need that courage back and with all of hodge, burton, sicily, Birchall and Hardwick in defence we should be able to break open games with attacking kicks.

Agree - although this is what we were trying to do in those disastrous losses early in the season. It's also what we switch to in the third quarter quite often with similar results.

It'll take time for this group to be able to pull it lff

 

[Mrzohs]

Agree - although this is what we were trying to do in those disastrous losses early in the season. It's also what we switch to in the third quarter quite often with similar results.

It'll take time for this group to be able to pull it lff

Agree, we need to bring in the players to be able to pull that kick off into the middel off the ground. almost every player in our 22 2013-15 disposals was reliable.

 

[Thaihawk]

Agree - although this is what we were trying to do in those disastrous losses early in the season. It's also what we switch to in the third quarter quite often with similar results.

It'll take time for this group to be able to pull it lff

I would think confidence in the players you're kicking it to has a bearing also. If we had both Jom, and O'Rourke fit and firing, and maybe Smith running through the middle, it might paint a different picture.

 

[Brishawk]

Agree - although this is what we were trying to do in those disastrous losses early in the season. It's also what we switch to in the third quarter quite often with similar results.

It'll take time for this group to be able to pull it lff

Early in the season we tried to handball to chb. Was a bit insane. This week we should have nearly all our best kicks playing behind the footy. I look forward to seeing an attacking backline open up the game by foot.

 

[Walshawk]

the next 18 months is massive for our club we can all accept a rough year after so much success but 2 or 3 years on the bottem will be unacceptable with the departures of a best and fairest winner and a runner up. the jury is still out with this whole dingley adventure happening and listening to jeff kennett views on this it is a massive risk the club is taking on in non stable world, not the time you would want to be on the bottem for years to come.
i think it all starts with This 2nd half of the season, it may sound stupid but any potential suitors looking at our club will want to see a massive improvement and know we are back on the right track, I don't think we are that far off it and with a few key siqnatures, jom and the young boys coming on we can turn this around quick and will be more than competitive next season. minimal margin for error moving forward!

What did JK sat about Dingley?

 

[threesixpio]

I'd like to see us attack through the corridor more. That is the number one priority. Learn to have the courage to keep going for it even when it doesn't come off. If you rewatch the 2008 gf you will see us try to kick to chb over and over again in order to open up the field. We missed the target several times in that first half but it also created goals for us. In the second half we kept going for them and nailed it enough to get us the win. Need that courage back and with all of hodge, burton, sicily, Birchall and Hardwick in defence we should be able to break open games with attacking kicks.

The kick out to the wing is driving me a little nuts. Even if there is a game plan logic to it is SOOO bloody predictable

 

[OzJohnnie]

Early in the season we tried to handball to chb. Was a bit insane. This week we should have nearly all our best kicks playing behind the footy. I look forward to seeing an attacking backline open up the game by foot.

It seems like we're too static in our offensive approach. Too reliant of movement by hand or foot, instead of moving the feet. I think our basic playing patterns have been figured out, along with our most likely alternatives when disposing. Dunno. But it seems that we very rarely see overlapping run from a Hawks player. We look for he overlapping kick, but not the run. Perhaps the handballing was intended to make that work but we had the same semi-static formations going.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm sure looking forward to seeing it, whatever it is, though.

 

[Mrzohs]

What did JK sat about Dingley?

in short, he thought it was a risk given we will have lil or no help from the state govenment, alot of money for a footy club to be spending on land.

 

[Mrzohs]

It seems like we're too static in our offensive approach. Too reliant of movement by hand or foot, instead of moving the feet. I think our basic playing patterns have been figured out, along with our most likely alternatives when disposing. Dunno. But it seems that we very rarely see overlapping run from a Hawks player. We look for he overlapping kick, but not the run. Perhaps the handballing was intended to make that work but we had the same semi-static formations going.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm sure looking forward to seeing it, whatever it is, though.

I agree, this is not helped when sicily and tv are in the team there work rate and leading patterns is horrible almost non existent, watching them both live they are like statues. tob, gunston, and breust are the only one really working off the footy to loose there man and provide a hit up for the boys
not sure if that's the game plan or them?

 

[Brishawk]

It seems like we're too static in our offensive approach. Too reliant of movement by hand or foot, instead of moving the feet. I think our basic playing patterns have been figured out, along with our most likely alternatives when disposing. Dunno. But it seems that we very rarely see overlapping run from a Hawks player. We look for he overlapping kick, but not the run. Perhaps the handballing was intended to make that work but we had the same semi-static formations going.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm sure looking forward to seeing it, whatever it is, though.

We have missed Birchall badly. He is a master of leading to receive the ball in the area 40-45 m out from the defensive goal within corridor. He then can move it on quickly to open up the play. Too many times this year players have just plonked themselves at chb and waited which just invites zoning defenders to crowd that area and close it down. Birchall alone will make us better but playing Sicily back there, should they realise the potential he showed last week, will give us another penetrating kick of the football and a player who can run fast and break the game open that way. He can be our new suckling with better scope to defend. I'm excited about the prospect of the coaches decide to stick with it.

 

[Xtreme]

Clarko took us from the bottom to the top
And took us back to the bottom just so he could take us back to the top and headf.... more campaigners.