Society/Culture The class system of modern Australia

[Happy Mastenator]

Below is my attempt at class definitions with household income per annum.

Your numbers are way way off. Have a look at this handy tool.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...ralians-are-out-of-touch-20150512-ggznib.html

 

[GreyCrow]

I think people like to imagine that using household income as a class-rating tool is effective, however, I've always avoided it as I see it as far too simplistic. When you apply it to the "real" world it definitely shows you something, however, what it shows you though sure isn't class differentiation.

Have to agree. Wage/income doesn't reflect class. Accumulated assets ie money in the bank define strata for me. And yes for some income is the only asset they hold.

 

[Andre]

I think people like to imagine that using household income as a class-rating tool is effective, however, I've always avoided it as I see it as far too simplistic. When you apply it to the "real" world it definitely shows you something, however, what it shows you though sure isn't class differentiation.

Household incomes, unless you are into the rich categories is crude at best. At the least it needs to be after tax. $150k on one income is paying a s**t load more in tax then the same household with 2 earning $75k. Take the first as having 2 or 3 kids and the latter none and they'd have hundreds a week less disposal income, despite the same money in.

 

[Power Raid]

Household incomes, unless you are into the rich categories is crude at best. At the least it needs to be after tax. $150k on one income is paying a s**t load more in tax then the same household with 2 earning $75k. Take the first as having 2 or 3 kids and the latter none and they'd have hundreds a week less disposal income, despite the same money in.

it blows me away we can have trust structures to disperse income for certain income streams but not consolidate employment income under the same basis.

sure the overall tax rate may have to increase but equitable treatment is something employees miss out on. The Labor CGT proposal would have been another kick in the nuts but fortunately avoided for the moment.

 

[Andre]

it blows me away we can have trust structures to disperse income for certain income streams but not consolidate employment income under the same basis.

sure the overall tax rate may have to increase but equitable treatment is something employees miss out on. The Labor CGT proposal would have been another kick in the nuts but fortunately avoided for the moment.

Ditch money for Family tax benefits and allow couples to income split instead and it'd wash out close to the same.

 

[Papa G]

Ditch money for Family tax benefits and allow couples to income split instead and it'd wash out close to the same.

Family Trusts all the way bro.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Your numbers are way way off. Have a look at this handy tool.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...ralians-are-out-of-touch-20150512-ggznib.html

Well according to that tool, two thirds of the country is doing better than me at the moment, damn!

 

[Andre]

Family Trusts all the way bro.

Not that rich

 

[Bomberboyokay]

There's a class system everywhere. Even North Korea.

 

[Andre]

There's a class system everywhere. Even North Korea.

True. What's more important is how easy it is to move from one class to another between generations (at least up). And Australia is pretty decent (not perfect) in that regard.

 

[Procrastinator35]

There's a class system everywhere. Even North Korea.

Not in tribal cultures, like the aboriginals, North American Indians or the Inuit....There are however, societal roles/hierarchies in these.

Class, as an idea/identity only seems to form/become relevant after more complex societies form.

Of course, in the U.S, your identity is wedded to what you do & how much you earn....The very definition of lost-ness....A fully socially constructed identity.

 

[Pie eyed]

Th

We absolutely have a class system in Australia.

For a while we did not, back when unions ran the political system and it was common for doctors to have mates that were mechanics. Those days are long dead.

One only needs look at the way the term 'bogan' is used in modern Australia to see the way class politics have infected our nation. Working man's paradise indeed.

The fact you jumped immediately from upper middle class to lower middle class speaks volumes.

The term bogan refers more to redneck idiots than to a social class these days I think.
There are plenty of financially secure bogans in this country. They vote for morons like Pauline Hanson.

 

[GreyCrow]

Th

The term bogan refers more to redneck idiots than to a social class these days I think.
There are plenty of financially secure bogans in this country. They vote for morons like Pauline Hanson.

CUBs = Cashed Up Bogans. Idiots who lucked into the mining boom and spent their money on Utes and Meth and houses too big for them.

 

[Run n Spread]

There's a class system everywhere. Even North Korea.

Only idiots buy into that s**t.

Problem is the rest suffer because it is hard to make money.

Kin Jong-Un runs a country. Seriously?

 

[Run n Spread]

Boy's/Girl's Club. Seriously. If you have any modicum of talent move. Unless you have mates/are an expert brown noser move. There are a lot of f wits in Australia on all sides.

The lower class can be bogan idiots but I like them when they talk sense. The upper class want to be British but can't pull it off so are weirdly angry/try to act superior and machismo but don't quite have the balls to truly pull it off so revert to this strange antagonism. Weird.

Makes it hard for the talentless thou.

 

[SBYM]

I have no class.

You can have some of mine. Classy as feck, me.

 

[little graham]

I have no class.

we already gathered that by the club you support.

 

[little graham]

LOL ... Australia is not a 3rd world country.
.

you need to talk with people living in the under class.

 

[Seeds]

LOL ... Australia is not a 3rd world country.

If a household brings in <$25k per annum then its occupants are living in 'Relative' poverty.

Poverty isn't relative. It's an objective thing and there are very few below the poverty line in Australia.

 

[Seeds]

So the whole concept of stagnant real family incomes i the US is baloney then given both lower and middle has fallen and upper has risen considerably.

 

[Seeds]

To get rid of classes but still provide, if not improve, the incentive to invest and work we need to:

Replace income taxes with wealth taxes
Get rid of family trusts
Invest more in public education to the point that private education is only attractive for niche students.
Reduce fees for higher education

 

[GreyCrow]

you need to talk with people living in the under class.

They can watch the news on their big screen tvs while they smoke $25 packets of smokes or $80gm baggies.

 

[Power Raid]

To get rid of classes but still provide, if not improve, the incentive to invest and work we need to:

Replace income taxes with wealth taxes
Get rid of family trusts
Invest more in public education to the point that private education is only attractive for niche students.
Reduce fees for higher education

I'd definitely advocate wealth taxes

I'd allow all families to be treated as a trust thus single income families are not treated unfairly

Education is over rated in Australia. Sure it is important but we value academia more than doers. Further academia provides knowledge to see risk rather than opportunity. So we would need to overhaul our education system and better integrate with industry rather than throw good money after bad at our universities.

 

[Rotayjay]

. Further academia provides knowledge to see risk rather than opportunity. So we would need to overhaul our education system and better integrate with industry rather than throw good money after bad at our universities.

Very interesting point.

The former Mexican resident I know told me some pretty disturbing stories about that country. One thing which surprised me was that having one bachelor's degree is not enough to get you a white-collar job there. You need a master's degree or even two or three bachelor's degrees to get anywhere. To me, this sounds like an overpopulated country which hasn't created enough jobs to occupy its population. The corruption which blights these countries is probably part of the problem - but I'm no economist or geographer.

I'm philosophically opposed to this hamster wheel of 'raising the bar'. I love education, but I hate wasted time and money. First, candidates can get the position of Widget Officer without even Year 12. Later, candidates need Year 12 and a Certificate IV in Widgets. Later, candidates need a Bachelor's Degree in Widgets. Later, candidates need a Bachelor's Widget Degree and lots of extra-curricular activities, and dux grades. Later, candidates need a Master's Degree in Widgets and extra-curriculars, and ten years' experience volunteering, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Because employers want the best candidates and there are so many more candidates than jobs, the bar is continually being raised to a more and more unreasonable height. Eventually, what happens? Everyone's burnt out because they're having to finish a PhD to get a job changing toilet rolls?

 

[GreyCrow]

Very interesting point.

The former Mexican resident I know told me some pretty disturbing stories about that country. One thing which surprised me was that having one bachelor's degree is not enough to get you a white-collar job there. You need a master's degree or even two or three bachelor's degrees to get anywhere. To me, this sounds like an overpopulated country which hasn't created enough jobs to occupy its population. The corruption which blights these countries is probably part of the problem - but I'm no economist or geographer.

I'm philosophically opposed to this hamster wheel of 'raising the bar'. I love education, but I hate wasted time and money. First, candidates can get the position of Widget Officer without even Year 12. Later, candidates need Year 12 and a Certificate IV in Widgets. Later, candidates need a Bachelor's Degree in Widgets. Later, candidates need a Bachelor's Widget Degree and lots of extra-curricular activities, and dux grades. Later, candidates need a Master's Degree in Widgets and extra-curriculars, and ten years' experience volunteering, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Because employers want the best candidates and there are so many more candidates than jobs, the bar is continually being raised to a more and more unreasonable height. Eventually, what happens? Everyone's burnt out because they're having to finish a PhD to get a job changing toilet rolls?

Excellent analysis and it is now happening here in Oz.

Running WFD operations one of the 1st questions I ask is what certificates do you have?

U/E 1 : Cert 2 in Logistics, Forklift Licence , Work Zone Traffic Management , Cert 2 Horticulture
U/E 2 : Cert 3 Horticulture , Forklift , Cert 2 Logistics, WZTM ,
U/E 3: Forklift, WZTM , Cert 3 Logistics

etc etc

Everybody now has a certificate , so what differentiates them? It seems when the resumes go out they all read the same. What is it that makes a candidate stand out? The irony was one person had an Excavator Operators ticket. When he applied for a job he was asked if he had 200 hours experience? How is a person meant to gain this experience if he is legally not allowed on an Excavator without a ticket? ( I understand the company hoped he had found this experience elsewhere but as a starting point its crazy)