Analysis The Coach - Simon Goodwin [The Journey]

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Demon bhoy

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I hear you. However, I don’t agree that Roos and co should take the ‘blame’ for Goodwin’s failings. Even if they issued a public apology it wouldn’t make any positive difference. The problems we have in 2020 are twice removed from the hiring of Goodwin in 2014 imo.

Richmond very nearly sacked Hardwick in 2016 and Geelong, Thompson in 2006 (not saying Goodwin will coach 2 flags fwiw). In fact, by most metrics, clubs would’ve been quite justified at the time in doing so. The point being, even if they did, it wouldn’t necessarily mean that it was a terrible/failed process or decision to hire them in the first place.

Definitely agree that it is smart to review and reflect on possible flaws or mistakes made in the past to try and avoid making the same errors in perpetuity. However, it seems to me that we kind of live in a culture and wider society that engages in this emotional thanatourism where we seek out the origin story of present day problems and sit around crying over spilt milk. I have no doubt that I am guilty of this also. As a species, we seem to now enjoy complaining about how bad things are now rather than trying to take action to make them better.
Jesus Johnny you’ve thought about this way more deeply than I could have, I certainly don’t blame anyone but Goodwin for his poor coaching and certainly don’t expect an apology from anyone but the decision that gave us Goodwin was horrible and it was driven to a large extent by Roos, the club excepted second best at best when there was time to go down a different path.

But as you say can’t change it now, hopefully there been some “learnings” and settling for what’s available and not what’s best is a thing of the past.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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Win last night papered over the cracks. He is still no good.
Don't think it wallpapered over anything honestly, just highlighted how highly inconsistent we are further.

I'll give him credit for actually sounding like a coach in his press conference for once. One swallow doesn't make a spring however.
 

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Crusty Demon

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mrmonkey

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Was listening to the radio and cornes and whateley were talking about being ruthless which is what Goodwin said in his press conference. They were talking about Teague being a nice coach and mates with the players Goodwin was also mentioned and said the best coaches are ruthless. Anyway it made me think about Chris Scott in 2011. I know he inherited a premiership list but I think about his mindset in the 186 point game. I remember Geelong played Richmond the week before and eased in the second half I think that really pissed him off I reckon once it was evident we weren't going to put up a fight he wanted blood. I think it was Chapman who was rag dolling Dunn on the ground Scott had to talk to him to cool him down only because he thought he didn't want him to do something silly and get suspended I think he didn't mind him doing it. Anyway that's the sort of mindset we need in our players we should have been able to physically dominate freo instead we allowed them to play uncontested foorball and get confidence. I'm not talking about going out and giving cheap shots but I feel we had a bit of ruthlessness in 2018 which has pretty much evaporated.
 

Crusty Demon

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Was listening to the radio and cornes and whateley were talking about being ruthless which is what Goodwin said in his press conference. They were talking about Teague being a nice coach and mates with the players Goodwin was also mentioned and said the best coaches are ruthless. Anyway it made me think about Chris Scott in 2011. I know he inherited a premiership list but I think about his mindset in the 186 point game. I remember Geelong played Richmond the week before and eased in the second half I think that really pissed him off I reckon once it was evident we weren't going to put up a fight he wanted blood. I think it was Chapman who was rag dolling Dunn on the ground Scott had to talk to him to cool him down only because he thought he didn't want him to do something silly and get suspended I think he didn't mind him doing it. Anyway that's the sort of mindset we need in our players we should have been able to physically dominate freo instead we allowed them to play uncontested foorball and get confidence. I'm not talking about going out and giving cheap shots but I feel we had a bit of ruthlessness in 2018 which has pretty much evaporated.
I think Goody has shown some ruthlessness in selections. Yes, most weeks is baffling as to who they drop and bring in. But, we have made hard calls on Jetta and Jones this season by dropping them at times and keeping them out of the team. Same with TMac. Could have just persisted with him. Same with Bennell. Pressure was on to have him on the field I'm sure. He's played Koz, Riv and Jackson more than what most of us would have thought. He finally made the hard call on Harmes. Made a tough call dropping Tomlinson after so many games he's played in a row. He just needs to instil some ruthlessness into the players game, especially mentally. We crumble under expectation. We crumble when truly pressured. We crumble when a team gets a run on. Probably need to be more ruthless with our coaching appointments etc. Need to be more ruthless when targeting players. Why not go hard for Cameron? Why not go hard for Papley? Go hard for Balme. Maybe we have, but we just don't seem to get big name players even remotely interested in coming to the club.
 

stEdy

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I think our hard, competitive edge we had in 2018 has definitely been stymied.

I mean, May hasn't really even clobbered someone yet, surely that's a directive from above? in 2017/18 we had Lewis and Vince putting people down almost every week. Viney and Harmes in that 2018 finals series were tackling and niggling like mad men. Not to mention Jetta's hits on Selwood/Mitchell in the two finals as well.

AVB has laid out some punishment, but not a whole lot. Kozzie Pickett has been fined like 4 times now for "dangerous tackles". Nibbler got 4 weeks for a tackle that would have been fine even 3 years ago. I think there's just so little margin for error with the way the tribunal is now that it's very difficult to physically intimidate the other team without incurring significant penalties, which sucks.
 

mrmonkey

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I think Goody has shown some ruthlessness in selections. Yes, most weeks is baffling as to who they drop and bring in. But, we have made hard calls on Jetta and Jones this season by dropping them at times and keeping them out of the team. Same with TMac. Could have just persisted with him. Same with Bennell. Pressure was on to have him on the field I'm sure. He's played Koz, Riv and Jackson more than what most of us would have thought. He finally made the hard call on Harmes. Made a tough call dropping Tomlinson after so many games he's played in a row. He just needs to instil some ruthlessness into the players game, especially mentally. We crumble under expectation. We crumble when truly pressured. We crumble when a team gets a run on. Probably need to be more ruthless with our coaching appointments etc. Need to be more ruthless when targeting players. Why not go hard for Cameron? Why not go hard for Papley? Go hard for Balme. Maybe we have, but we just don't seem to get big name players even remotely interested in coming to the club.
I agree that it's been good to get a look at some of our younger talent. I'm sure there is some ruthlessness behind the scenes. However I feel we've lost it on the field. I don't doubt the players toughness we have that but we just seem a little nice on field.
 

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Dory_77

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I think Goody has shown some ruthlessness in selections. Yes, most weeks is baffling as to who they drop and bring in. But, we have made hard calls on Jetta and Jones this season by dropping them at times and keeping them out of the team. Same with TMac. Could have just persisted with him. Same with Bennell. Pressure was on to have him on the field I'm sure. He's played Koz, Riv and Jackson more than what most of us would have thought. He finally made the hard call on Harmes. Made a tough call dropping Tomlinson after so many games he's played in a row. He just needs to instil some ruthlessness into the players game, especially mentally. We crumble under expectation. We crumble when truly pressured. We crumble when a team gets a run on. Probably need to be more ruthless with our coaching appointments etc. Need to be more ruthless when targeting players. Why not go hard for Cameron? Why not go hard for Papley? Go hard for Balme. Maybe we have, but we just don't seem to get big name players even remotely interested in coming to the club.
Re dropping blokes: Kinda see it, but dropping guys who are well out of form should be expected. He also needs some way of getting those players back into form to come back in. Granted it's a lot harder this year with no proper 2s but we've yo-yoed with blokes like Hannan, Hunt, Bennell, Jones, TMc etc. They come in and look ordinary, go out and come back more or less the same. He's also persisted with the likes of Harmes and Vanders much longer than necessary imo.
 

Crusty Demon

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Re dropping blokes: Kinda see it, but dropping guys who are well out of form should be expected. He also needs some way of getting those players back into form to come back in. Granted it's a lot harder this year with no proper 2s but we've yo-yoed with blokes like Hannan, Hunt, Bennell, Jones, TMc etc. They come in and look ordinary, go out and come back more or less the same. He's also persisted with the likes of Harmes and Vanders much longer than necessary imo.
Maybe, but who else have we got? Our depth is paper thin. I think we've needed to rotate the list this year due to the quota of games in such a short timeframe. But i think he dropped Jetta, Bennell and Tomlinson quicker than most expected.
 

Ando727

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Ruthless is just a bit of an empty catch cry. Stop talking about sh*t and just show it through your actions.
Yep, if you say you're going to be ruthless, there needs to be no trace of ruth anywhere at the club. We're bloody full of ruth. We need a clubwide de-ruthing over the summer.
 

A11dAtP0w3R

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I think our hard, competitive edge we had in 2018 has definitely been stymied.

I mean, May hasn't really even clobbered someone yet, surely that's a directive from above? in 2017/18 we had Lewis and Vince putting people down almost every week. Viney and Harmes in that 2018 finals series were tackling and niggling like mad men. Not to mention Jetta's hits on Selwood/Mitchell in the two finals as well.

AVB has laid out some punishment, but not a whole lot. Kozzie Pickett has been fined like 4 times now for "dangerous tackles". Nibbler got 4 weeks for a tackle that would have been fine even 3 years ago. I think there's just so little margin for error with the way the tribunal is now that it's very difficult to physically intimidate the other team without incurring significant penalties, which sucks.
The tough pills only seem to appear once we are winning, we never have a crack when we are losing.
 

Crusty Demon

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I was actually indifferent to whether we beat the Giants - the equation is out of our hands and that (usually) inevitably means we are out and deserve to be out.
Goodwin should still go.
I think it's just not going to happen. 2 years left on his contract. No way we pull the trigger this year. Next year I can see us doing it if things don't improve (which I can't see happening unless we secure a couple of A Grade talent in this offseason).

The only thing that could possibly change the board's minds, is if Clarko came hat in hand, which let's be honest, ain't happening. I would love to go hard for Yze though as an assistant. Have a coach in waiting ready to go if things go pear shaped next season. I'd also hope we are enquiring strongly about Luke Hodge's situation. Is he up for a coaching/mentoring role? I'd love for him to be involved at the club in some capacity.
 

Ando727

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I was actually indifferent to whether we beat the Giants - the equation is out of our hands and that (usually) inevitably means we are out and deserve to be out.
Goodwin should still go.
That's the problem with late-season rallies of form. Prior to the last month, we were almost in crisis mode and action was imminent. Now we've clawed back a bit of ground, we can pretend that we're back on track, even if we aren't. We can kid ourselves that we've taken all our "learnings" and we're be poised to implement them next year and make finals. In reality, we'll do what we did this year: flirt with okayness, and eventually fall in a heap and rue another lost year. You could pretty much bet your house on it.
 

Crusty Demon

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That's the problem with late-season rallies of form. Prior to the last month, we were almost in crisis mode and action was imminent. Now we've clawed back a bit of ground, we can pretend that we're back on track, even if we aren't. We can kid ourselves that we've taken all our "learnings" and we're be poised to implement them next year and make finals. In reality, we'll do what we did this year: flirt with okayness, and eventually fall in a heap and rue another lost year. You could pretty much bet your house on it.
Yep, perpetual mediocrity. We literally are in groundhog day every season. Same sh** different year. Promise the world and deliver very very little. If we were a business we would have gone broke decades ago. But it's kind of smart from a football club, have the supporters expect very little every season, and then when we are out of the Bottom 4 we all celebrate it like we've won the GF! Pretty smart really. But yeah, it's year after year the same sh** with the occasional glimmer of hope.
 

Toump Ass

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I think it's just not going to happen. 2 years left on his contract. No way we pull the trigger this year. Next year I can see us doing it if things don't improve (which I can't see happening unless we secure a couple of A Grade talent in this offseason).
I agree we won't sack him but given we lost 10,000 members (highest % of any team) there might be an argument that getting rid of him is financially responsible.

Speaking of cash, i think it's funny that after years of being so sh*t we couldn't even start the season with a sponsorship from a half-eaten packet of twisties, we make a prelim and sign Jaguar... and then end up totally sh*t again. :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy: :tearsofjoy:
 

Mijhaa

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I was actually indifferent to whether we beat the Giants - the equation is out of our hands and that (usually) inevitably means we are out and deserve to be out.
Goodwin should still go.
Same. Goodwin was very fortunate to come up against a coach who is potentially even worse than him - Cameron has somehow turned one of the most skilled teams into the league into a rabble.

Will actually be frustrating if we beat Essendon, we need change not another year of false hope next year.
 

Ando727

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Will actually be frustrating if we beat Essendon, we need change not another year of false hope next year.
It's too late, we are already in "just missed finals, we just need to improve a few things and we'll play finals next year" mode. We needed to collapse properly to get rid of Goodwin. Now we're going to do it all again next year - probably even the inspiring preseason video...
 

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