The coalition will never win the federal government again.

[Demonic Ascent]

so you don't believe geologist and farmers seek a job working in nature because they enjoy working in the environment?

you don't believe industry creates wealth that provides the wealth to workers?

you don't believe workers care about the environment more, as their maslow hierarchy of needs is fulfilled?

you don't believe industry needs a constant push to create more wealth, more efficiently and constantly improve their practices?

you don't believe this push comes from external but also internal, as those that choose to live and work in nature "love nature"?

I don't believe unfettered industry is altruistic.

I don't believe those who plunder the environment for personal gain have the environment and it's ecosystems as their key priority.

I don't believe those who think Jesus will come back one day and take the true believers to heaven care about creating/maintaining a sustainable habitat for future generations.

Do you believe industry has the wealth of its employees as a key priority? Or do you think they'd get away with paying them $2 a day if they could? No need to respond, the answer is self evident in the behaviour of these companies the world over.

 

[Gethelred]

so you don't believe geologist and farmers seek a job working in nature because they enjoy working in the environment?

you don't believe industry creates wealth that provides the wealth to workers?

you don't believe workers care about the environment more, as their maslow hierarchy of needs is fulfilled?

you don't believe industry needs a constant push to create more wealth, more efficiently and constantly improve their practices?

you don't believe this push comes from external but also internal, as those that choose to live and work in nature "love nature"?

This is another Gish Gallop.

 

[Gethelred]

That's the other brother walked away from family business.

Lachlan is reportable worse than Rupert.

See, I think that Lachlan will be unable to appeal to those on the left of the aisle, and will be unable to manipulate them into getting him what he wants the way Rupert has for the past 5 decades.

Rupert's evil genius has been his ability to push left wing parties right by reading the tea leaves at the right time and offering his support in exchange for something; neutral coverage, a softening of his approach, negative coverage of an opponent. It's allowed Rupert to play both sides at different times.

Lachlan is more partisan, and I don't think he's going to be able to approach the Greens or Labor in quite the same way.

 

[GremioPower]

I would prefer we treat Australians as Australians or as people rather than dividing us by race.

but I am sure there are some who would like to see bus seats and train carriages divided by race. others who would wave nazi symbols or even sheets over the head.

I'm just uncomfortable with the racism already enshrined in our Constitution and feel we should be removing it......not compounding it.

That which follows is a long post and reflects the views of a foreigner on Australia. Take it as you will.

To avoid “tl;dr”, just read the parts in red.

I hope it can contribute to the debate. Comments and questions are welcome. Please, feel free to correct me where I got wrong.

—

I.

Australia was born under the assumption that the European settlers were better than the Aboriginal people. If they were, indeed, people. They might be considered outlaw savages. The "terra nulius" doctrine on Aussie land might even be based on the latter.

Everybody talks about the Germans, but they were Britain on stereoids. The British had this notion of superiority, as if History were somehow evidence that they were better than the rest. [Note: I say all this despite being an uncorrectable Anglophile. I’m just recognizing that humility is not one of the British virtues.]

In brief, Australia would suffer the consequences of this Victorian Britain’s progressive self-understanding. You have inherited it.

II.

If you want to unite all the Australian peoples, both Aboriginal and Immigrants, that’s the problem you must solve. You need a new self-understanding.

Now, what happened has happened, right? One cannot change that. One can act only from now on.

The solution passes through embracing the Aboriginal culture as part of your own. For that, you must change this FOUNDATIONAL MYTH of yours that the colonizers were superior beings to the locals.

III.

There’s a famous quote [Note: It’s comminly attributed to Thomas More, but it would be by Epictetus] which says that the distance between God and man is everywhere the same. If true, and I believe it is, then we cannot possibly be superior to one another – even if one can actually be better than others in specific things.

Yet, for a full unification, simply regarding the Aboriginal as “equal people” isn’t enough. That would be an improvement, but it still falls short of the mark. The Aboriginals must stop being seen as "those people." They need to be understood as "us" — i.e. as meaningful members of "We the Aussies".

IV.

One might ask how. I can think of a few examples:

- When your Armed Forces have regular training on surviving in the Outback using Aboriginal experience – with Aboriginal officers in charge even. [Note: I believe there should be some by now.]

- When you start having holidays that follow Aboriginal traditions.

- When you study their History in schools as "your History" — i.e. Australian History.

- When you study their languages, even if only basic stuff, in schools.

- When you start making journeys (school trips, family trips) to the Outback to learn where YOUR COUNTRY began, how YOUR ANCESTORS lived [Note: even if you don't have a single drop of Aboriginal blood within yourself], because they were the "First Australians" and you are Australians like them.

There may be more, but those examples should be enough to illustrate the point.

V.

When those become the norm, then you can be sure that Australia have fully embraced its "Aboriginalness”, making it an integral part of itself. There would be ONE embracive AUSTRALIAN culture, that unifies the whole of the community despite its differences.

You would have established a new founding myth for your community, and these segregation issues would have become History. There would finally be only ONE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE.

—

In my humble opinion, that would be the only way to go. I don’t know any other.

 

[Choc Milk]

Hopefully the libs move back to the centre where they belong. This right wing s**t killed them. Wacko religo's and anti vaxx lunatics.

Ps it was the labour unions that instigated the white Australia policy to stop chinese and pacific islanders coming to work here.......

Labor Prime Minister Curtin "This country shall remain forever the home of the descendants of those people who came here in peace in order to establish in the South Seas an outpost of the British race."[

Then Menzies started to abolish it,

Not sure what the hell happened to the libs lately.

If they head back to centre they will s**t in the next election.

 

[mill204]

Hopefully the libs move back to the centre where they belong. This right wing s**t killed them. Wacko religo's and anti vaxx lunatics

Don't think by making Dutton leader a move back to a centre-right party is foremost in their minds. More attempting to make this exemplar of the extreme right palatable perhaps. Good luck with that.

 

[Number37]

And you????

“In 1788 the Brits said the indigenous folk aren't people and as such refused to treat them as people.”

Maybe brush up a bit yourself.

This is what section 127 of our Constitution used to say.

127. In reckoning the numbers of people of the Commonwealth, or of a State or other part of the Commonwealth, aboriginal natives shall not be counted

NOT.
COUNTED.
AS.
PEOPLE.


Maybe brush up a bit yourself.

Flabbergasting to think we had a referendum in 1967 about this very issue, but some people will still perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to deny basic facts.

At first it is a little sad that people still try to deny these basic facts.
But it's just f'n disgraceful that people still think like that. It is no wonder we have such a problem with racism in this country.
Actually, we should call it what it is. It is a problem with racists. We have a problem with racists in this country.

 

[Choc Milk]

Don't think by making Dutton leader a move back to a centre-right party is foremost in their minds. More attempting to make this exemplar of the extreme right palatable perhaps. Good luck with that.

He won't last till the next election. Unless he has a Mea Culpa and banishes the religo's and the fruitcakes.

Tactically speaking, if i was in charge I'd stop with the religious s**t, a new christian party will form and take all those votes, they would never do a deal to govern with Labor. Problem solved, you get all the actual economic conservatives back, and you get the preferences from the religious loonies

 

[Mick F]

This is what section 127 of our Constitution used to say.



NOT.
COUNTED.
AS.
PEOPLE.


Maybe brush up a bit yourself.

Flabbergasting to think we had a referendum in 1967 about this very issue, but some people will still perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to deny basic facts.

At first it is a little sad that people still try to deny these basic facts.
But it's just f'n disgraceful that people still think like that. It is no wonder we have such a problem with racism in this country.
Actually, we should call it what it is. It is a problem with racists. We have a problem with racists in this country.

I considered your lambasting of a poster to be unwarranted as your assertion, “In 1788 the Brits said the indigenous folk aren't people and as such refused to treat them as people.” was manifestly incorrect. I made no reference to 1900 or 1967. Nor did I comment on the treatment of the aboriginal people in reality.

Governor Phillip made it clear that aborigines were equal subjects of the British Crown in the eyes of the law. His official orders, with regard to Aboriginal people, were to; 'conciliate their affections', to 'live in amity and kindness with them', and to punish anyone who should 'wantonly destroy them, or give them any unnecessary interruption in the exercise of their several occupations'.

The Colonial Office entertained no doubts that Aborigines were to be treated as British subjects for all purposes.

Governor Macquarie 1810: “The natives of this territory are to be treated in every respect as Europeans; and any injury or violence done or offered to the men or women natives will be punished according to law in-the same manner and in equal degree as if done to any of his Majesty’s subjects or foreigners residing there.”

The appalling treatment of the aborigines was outside the law. In many respects courts and officers of the law acted outside of the law.

 

[Seeds]

Yep.
Let's start with the race that has been here for 60 millennia and work our way backwards.

No one has been here longer in this country then 105 years. Why are you grouping people by blood lines and elevating or de-elevating them by the same blood lines. Thats what racism is.

racism is defining and seperating people by race for things that are important. and politics and power is important.

i dont belong to the western race. Im just a person that was born and lived in a certain spot in a certain culture. my bloodline connections , excluding my family who are or were alive during my lifetime, are so irrelevant to who we are it should never be mentioned. And yes unfortunately it is and people have been treated poorly as a result of those bloodline connections. But we should aim to live in a world where they are not. If we dont try to move towards such a world and continue to seperate people by blood then we will never stop racism.

having race as part of the constitution where one group has special power that is passed on by blood is a little like having a monarchy. This is crap we ditched 300 years ago.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[Demonic Ascent]

No one has been here longer in this country then 105 years. Why are you grouping people by blood lines and elevating or de-elevating them by the same blood lines. Thats what racism is.

racism is defining and seperating people by race for things that are important. and politics and power is important.

i dont belong to the western race. Im just a person that was born and lived in a certain spot in a certain culture. my bloodline connections , excluding my family who are or were alive during my lifetime, are so irrelevant to who we are it should never be mentioned. And yes unfortunately it is and people have been treated poorly as a result of those bloodline connections. But we should aim to live in a world where they are not. If we dont try to move towards such a world and continue to seperate people by blood then we will never stop racism.

having race as part of the constitution where one group has special power that is passed on by blood is a little like having a monarchy. This is crap we ditched 300 years ago.

"Treated poorly" or "genocide"

 

[Seeds]

"Treated poorly" or "genocide"

Has there been a genocide in the last 30-60years?

we are talking about people alive now. Not past generations who are all gone. The last known massacre that could be labelled a genocide was over 100 years ago. No one alive today has experienced it.

now do you actually have any argument against the post itself?

 

[Gough]

Has there been a genocide in the last 30-60years?

we are talking about people alive now. Not past generations who are all gone.

Shall we apply this sort of statute of limitation to ANZAC Day as well? None of those diggers are about anymore either.

 

[Seeds]

Shall we apply this sort of statute of limitation to ANZAC Day as well? None of those diggers are about anymore either.

Yes.

the genocides should be remembered. Anzac day should ge remembered. So we dont repeat the mistakes of both again.

but these things didnt happen to any of us. They happenend to people of the past.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

"These Teals Are Funded By Billionaires" Says Bloke Who's Never Once Let Gina Pay For Lunch — The Betoota Advocate

WENDELL HUSSEY | Cadet | CONTACT The nation’s former Deputy Prime Minister has once again offered up his take on the state of the nation. With the hangover from the weekend still biting on a Tuesday, Barnaby Joyce has lashed out at the wave of independents emerging in politics. “It’s *******...

www.betootaadvocate.com

 

[Maggie5]

I considered your lambasting of a poster to be unwarranted as your assertion, “In 1788 the Brits said the indigenous folk aren't people and as such refused to treat them as people.” was manifestly incorrect. I made no reference to 1900 or 1967. Nor did I comment on the treatment of the aboriginal people in reality.

Governor Phillip made it clear that aborigines were equal subjects of the British Crown in the eyes of the law. His official orders, with regard to Aboriginal people, were to; 'conciliate their affections', to 'live in amity and kindness with them', and to punish anyone who should 'wantonly destroy them, or give them any unnecessary interruption in the exercise of their several occupations'.

The Colonial Office entertained no doubts that Aborigines were to be treated as British subjects for all purposes.

Governor Macquarie 1810: “The natives of this territory are to be treated in every respect as Europeans; and any injury or violence done or offered to the men or women natives will be punished according to law in-the same manner and in equal degree as if done to any of his Majesty’s subjects or foreigners residing there.”

The appalling treatment of the aborigines was outside the law. In many respects courts and officers of the law acted outside of the law.

Did they enact any laws to support their assertions?

 

[Festerz]

Has there been a genocide in the last 30-60years?

we are talking about people alive now. Not past generations who are all gone. The last known massacre that could be labelled a genocide was over 100 years ago. No one alive today has experienced it.

now do you actually have any argument against the post itself?

Yeah we stopped the genocide after 140 years - good on us!

But wait - there was that stolen generation where right up until the late 1970s tens of thousands of indigenous kids were forcibly removed from their parents to 'assimilate' them into proper white society and remove any cultural connection. Creating ongoing social dislocation, lack of identity and consequential suicide and incarceration rates for indigenous people that far outstrip the rest of modern Australian society.

BUT hey. At least they weren't murdered. So that's good, right?

Sheesh. Get an education, son.

Your posts provide hard evidence of WHY a change in our constitution is needed to reflect the (enduring) history of the original owners of this land so we can all reflect on the disgraceful subjugation and denial of their rights, their history and their culture that is continuing. Because that is OUR history too.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

 

[carltonchelsea]

Zealots because they only see one view. A view that has the side they loathe out of politics for decades.

Climate change has nothing to do with what Im talking abouts. Its far bigger than that.

They have a blinkered view of the world because they live in a bubble and everyone either agrees with them or should die.

Its fascinating to watch, but also a little sad.

Oh, that’s right, you voted for Labor and us lefties are all zealots aren’t we, welcome to the club!

 

[HairyO]

Oh, that’s right, you voted for Labor and us lefties are all zealots aren’t we, welcome to the club!

We shall see how left Labor go. I think a lot of you will be disappointed. Albo will want to buck the trend and win a couple of elections. That happens by hanging around the middle.

Dutton has the same choice. He can win back half a dozen seats instantly by getting the party back to being moderate. Or he can lose another half dozen seats and follow in Scomo's footsteps.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

We shall see how left Labor go. I think a lot of you will be disappointed. Albo will want to buck the trend and win a couple of elections. That happens by hanging around the middle.

Dutton has the same choice. He can win back half a dozen seats instantly by getting the party back to being moderate. Or he can lose another half dozen seats and follow in Scomo's footsteps.

Labor is not a left wing party, they are centrist

Pay attention!!!

 

[HairyO]

Labor is not a left wing party, they are centrist

Pay attention!!!

Well done on reading my post and comprehending it.

 

[carltonchelsea]

We shall see how left Labor go. I think a lot of you will be disappointed. Albo will want to buck the trend and win a couple of elections. That happens by hanging around the middle.

Dutton has the same choice. He can win back half a dozen seats instantly by getting the party back to being moderate. Or he can lose another half dozen seats and follow in Scomo's footsteps.

What too far left policies are you implying here?
Climate and ICAC were the main focus of the electorate and why scummo and many of his band of merry thieves lost their seats.
Are they too far left ideas for the right?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Has there been a genocide in the last 30-60years?

we are talking about people alive now. Not past generations who are all gone. The last known massacre that could be labelled a genocide was over 100 years ago. No one alive today has experienced it.

now do you actually have any argument against the post itself?

Oh jeez 100 years ago that's ancient history

Genocide is not just the mass murder of a group of people, it is also the destruction of a culture. Crimes like the Stolen Generation have long lasting effects. It's nice that you're able to whitewash history so flippantly but for those impacted by it I'm sure it's not so easily swept aside.