The cock up that is the east coast energy market

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Kwality

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You arent taking into account that there are two states over east that dont produce f/a gas.

So how are they going to reserve gas for themselves like we do. They cant order qld to reserve gas for them because the states own their own resources.

A super tax on resources would allow the federal government to use that money to subsidise the non gas producing states to have the same effect as reserving gas.

I'm not anti the tax measures.

My point is power generation is a State responsibility & some States are simply denying their responsibility.
 

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Kwality

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You are completely ignoring that a reservation policy is there should the s**t hit the fan/ a last resort.
That our energy policy is so f'd up that we go so quickly from having enough electricity to the s**t hitting the fan/ the last resort should tell you how f'd up our energy policy is.
That it doesn't tell you how f'd up our energy policy is quite disturbing.

Gas reserves are like lifeboats on a ship.
Instead of questioning why the captain is steering a treacherous course when there are clear alternatives, you're here telling everyone not to worry about the captain steering a treacherous course because we got lifeboats.

Rubbish - the reservation gives certainty of supply.

We all know that we need dispatchable power, ALL States know that, even you know that. Its been fashionable to blame the Feds & many want to ignore that.

We have built Australia around 24/7 electricity & that requires dispatchable power.
 

Kwality

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A link to the SA Hydrogen Jobs Plan is here:


I am a little disappointed to see that the new 'Office of Hydrogen Power' that the newly elected SA Labor Government has created will be headed by a Labor Party favourite rather than an independent and well recognised leader in the field. Sam Crafter is the son of former ALP MP and Minister Greg Crafter who has previously worked as a political minder in the Rann government for many years before being slotted into a government liaison sinecure in oil and gas giant Santos Ltd.


I just think appointing a recognised and qualified expert to that role, rather than a politically aligned colleague, would have been a better move.

At the moment there is a hydrogen hub planned somewhere near you & Australia will be a superpower. Get back to us when the first hub proves commercially viable - about then carbon capture will be too.

Twiggy has been travelling the world chasing hydrogen & funding:




Could hydrogen be the solution to the gas crisis?


&

Wanted: a modern day Khemlani
 

Kwality

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Is it that they couldn't make a profit? Or they couldn't make as much of a profit as they wanted?

Queensland has returned to surplus three years ahead of schedule on the back of record coal and gas prices and Brisbane’s booming property market.

The $1.9bn surplus for the current financial year will be short-lived with house prices forecast to soften in the next two years and coal prices to return to normal levels in 2023.

Queensland is set to slump back to $1bn deficits next year and in 2023-24, before returning to a slim surplus again over the forward estimates.



It does beg the question of how Queensland provides services if/when there are $zero royalities post coal.
 

QuietB

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*Or are prohibiting exploration/extraction of said gas
The problem is NOT that there is not enough gas.

Australia exports 74% of its gas. Australia has s**t loads of gas and we do not need fracking to produce more or to solve this problem.

Also, fracking is banned in Victoria. Victoria is not the state most at risk in this energy crisis.

Asking for more gas exploration is blatant opportunism by the usual suspects.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Joys of privatisation.

Fact is , Today , ( not some future ), Sustainable Energy is not cheap unless you want blackouts.

Therefore you need backup supply and that is gas and coal.
The Coal power stations have significant overheads. The less we buy coal power, the more significant these overheads become.

They MUST be able to capitalise on their sales at times of shortage or they will not survive, and we will only have unreliable Solar and Wind.
This will become more of a factor as we continue to add more and more solar and wind.

If it was all government ( or even monopoly ) owned it wouldn't be an issue.
 

Number37

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Rubbish - the reservation gives certainty of supply.

We all know that we need dispatchable power, ALL States know that, even you know that. Its been fashionable to blame the Feds & many want to ignore that.

We have built Australia around 24/7 electricity & that requires dispatchable power.

For the 100th time, the only way we can get despatchable power currently is limited to coal & gas because the f-wits in the LNP have refused to diversify our power generation.
 

QuietB

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For the 100th time, the only way we can get despatchable power currently is limited to coal & gas because the f-wits in the LNP have refused to diversify our power generation.
And worse they have deliberately re-directed sustainable energy funds and other environmental funds directly to fossil fuel companies to "develop" (ie. pocket the money) carbon capture and hydrogen technology.

And worse even still they directly engaged the gas industry to write Australia's Covid recovery strategy and they "surprisingly" came up with a "Gas Led Recovery".

Morrison and Taylor were a complete joke.

Abbott tearing down the emissions trading scheme was the worst thing that ever happened to energy policy in Australia. We would largely be there by now with a maturing energy sector if Abbott never did that.
 

Number37

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And worse they have deliberately re-directed sustainable energy funds and other environmental funds directly to fossil fuel companies to "develop" (ie. pocket the money) carbon capture and hydrogen technology.

And worse even still they directly engaged the gas industry to write Australia's Covid recovery strategy and they "surprisingly" came up with a "Gas Led Recovery".

Morrison and Taylor were a complete joke.

Abbott tearing down the emissions trading scheme was the worst thing that ever happened to energy policy in Australia. We would largely be there by now with a maturing energy sector if Abbott never did that.

Snowy 2.0, another waste of billions brought to you by the gOoD eCoNoMiC mAnAgErS.
 

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Demonic Ascent

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Queensland has returned to surplus three years ahead of schedule on the back of record coal and gas prices and Brisbane’s booming property market.

The $1.9bn surplus for the current financial year will be short-lived with house prices forecast to soften in the next two years and coal prices to return to normal levels in 2023.

Queensland is set to slump back to $1bn deficits next year and in 2023-24, before returning to a slim surplus again over the forward estimates.



It does beg the question of how Queensland provides services if/when there are $zero royalities post coal.
So you're agreeing with me? I'm not clear what your post has to do with my post you quoted and replied to.
 

HairyO

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For the 100th time, the only way we can get despatchable power currently is limited to coal & gas because the f-wits in the LNP have refused to diversify our power generation.

Where will Labor get us in the next 3 or 6 years? Base load renewable energy at lower prices than today?
 

kranky al

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Where will Labor get us in the next 3 or 6 years? Base load renewable energy at lower prices than today?
If they subsidise batteries on houses / community batteries / solar they can make 40% of our electricity use renewable in a few years. Take pressure off the grid at night and optimise renewables.
 

HairyO

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If they subsidise batteries on houses / community batteries / solar they can make 40% of our electricity use renewable in a few years. Take pressure off the grid at night and optimise renewables.

So the house batteries will keep us warm during winter?
 

HairyO

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Ive only done a quick check and a survey done a few years ago had energy usage up to 50% higher in winter in Sydney - but maybe we are a wasteful lot. Melbourne was only 30% higher and its much colder there so maybe we are greedy sooks. Brisbane is lower usage in winter because there is no aircon being used and heaters would be rare.

Depending on where you are in the country there can be 30% less energy generated in winter too (getting worse the further south you go).

Surely we just convert a heap of SA, QLD and NSW to large scale solar and batteries given this is where the solar energy is going to be generated.

WA Im sure will want to do their own thing.
 

carltonchelsea

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Byron Bay junior electricity operator Enova Energy collapses, with its CEO slamming the "diabolical" state of the energy market as broken and unable to support small retailers amid soaring prices.

Enova, which branded itself as Australia's first community-owned electricity retailer, was placed into voluntary administration on Tuesday morning after failing to seal wholesale energy price hedging after a deal with Melbourne's Diamond Energy lapsed.

That is the problem!
 

Kwality

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For the 100th time, the only way we can get despatchable power currently is limited to coal & gas because the f-wits in the LNP have refused to diversify our power generation.

More rubbish 37.

The problem isnt simply 'our power generation', its our requirement for dispatchible power, 24/7 power.

$billions have gone into renewables including storage & it doesnt 'cut the mustard'.

Again, WA arent suffering the same problems because its State Government acted nearly 20 years ago.
 

Kwality

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Snowy 2.0, another waste of billions brought to you by the gOoD eCoNoMiC mAnAgErS.

Its still in play as the east coast looks for a solution to energy storage from solar & wind.

.... the contract will see Snowy purchase both power and renewables certificates from the 414 MW Uungula Wind Farm being built near Dubbo in central New South Wales.

This is the 12th such deal for Snowy, bringing its renewable purchases to 4.1 terawatt hours each year, Snowy’s Managing Director and CEO Paul Broad said. The company already has a PPA in place with CWP for its Bango Wind Farm, north of Yass in NSW.
 

QuietB

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Ive only done a quick check and a survey done a few years ago had energy usage up to 50% higher in winter in Sydney - but maybe we are a wasteful lot. Melbourne was only 30% higher and its much colder there so maybe we are greedy sooks. Brisbane is lower usage in winter because there is no aircon being used and heaters would be rare.

Depending on where you are in the country there can be 30% less energy generated in winter too (getting worse the further south you go).

Surely we just convert a heap of SA, QLD and NSW to large scale solar and batteries given this is where the solar energy is going to be generated.

WA Im sure will want to do their own thing.
Sounds like we need a federal energy policy to fix the grid.

I am not an expert on energy but this is my 2 cents worth.

Gas and coal are currently critical to back up renewables and to supply baseload power. This will continue to be the case until either;

a/ renewables can reliably supply baseload power 24/7 or

b/ large scale (which can also be lots of small scale) electricity storage exists.

Moving forward this back up will end up being gas only as gas is significantly more flexible and coal plants will end their useful life and will not be replaced.

There will never be another coal fired power station built in Australia. It simply will not happen. Hence, we need to move forward on renewables because there is a day coming soon where all the coal fired power stations are dead. The coalition knew this but still stalled on renewables for 9 years (deliberately - it was all about backing Australia into a corner)

There will never be a nuclear power station built in Australia.

The future is renewables. They are cheaper to build, cost relatively nothing to operate and maintain, they are more flexible and dynamic.

Right now they need to be backed up by fossil fuels but one day that will change. And when it does Australia better be ready. Because when that day does come, and it will, a huge chunk of our export economy will cease to exist.
 

HairyO

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Sounds like we need a federal energy policy to fix the grid.

I am not an expert on energy but this is my 2 cents worth.

Gas and coal are currently critical to back up renewables and to supply baseload power. This will continue to be the case until either;

a/ renewables can reliably supply baseload power 24/7 or

b/ large scale (which can also be lots of small scale) electricity storage exists.

Moving forward this back up will end up being gas only as gas is significantly more flexible and coal plants will end their useful life and will not be replaced.

There will never be another coal fired power station built in Australia. It simply will not happen. Hence, we need to move forward on renewables because there is a day coming soon where all the coal fired power stations are dead. The coalition knew this but still stalled on renewables for 9 years (deliberately - it was all about backing Australia into a corner)

There will never be a nuclear power station built in Australia.

The future is renewables. They are cheaper to build, cost relatively nothing to operate and maintain, they are more flexible and dynamic.

Right now they need to be backed up by fossil fuels but one day that will change. And when it does Australia better be ready. Because when that day does come, and it will, a huge chunk of our export economy will cease to exist.

States are responsible for energy and have been terrible. The feds should refuse to help out until the states come to the table with what they are going to do.

Only then should the feds get involved. Otherwise the states will continue to sit back and blame everyone else.

Germany is increasing use of coal. I'd be wary to say never again.

Every country which rushes fails. Even far smarter countries than us.

The fact that we spent 20 years pushing rooftop solar and forking over billions of dollars to rich people does not bode well for the future.
 

QuietB

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States are responsible for energy and have been terrible. The feds should refuse to help out until the states come to the table with what they are going to do.

Only then should the feds get involved. Otherwise the states will continue to sit back and blame everyone else.

Germany is increasing use of coal. I'd be wary to say never again.

Every country which rushes fails. Even far smarter countries than us.

The fact that we spent 20 years pushing rooftop solar and forking over billions of dollars to rich people does not bode well for the future.
Germany doesn't have any gas. Australia has s**t loads of gas.

If Ukraine never happened Germany would still be using Russian gas while it develops their own solution.
 

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