The cock up that is the east coast energy market

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Taylor

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Jul 16, 2009
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Germany doesn't have any gas. Australia has s**t loads of gas.

If Ukraine never happened Germany would still be using Russian gas while it develops their own solution.

It's a shame they didn't spend that $580 billion on nuclear power, they would be looking at being 100% renewable and reliable and at a far cheaper price.

Perhaps Australia can avoid making the same mistake.
 

Kwality

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I think the idea is to have a blend i ok f storage facilities such as pumped hydro and craned weights etc.


Theres a lot of old minesites in wa would be great for pumped hydro - as id imagine coal mines in nsw and qld

This project in SA caught my interest:
2017/oct/31/whyalla-steelworks-to-be-powered-by-700m-solar-battery-and-pumped-hydro-project

Construction of the project has however been repeatedly delayed with GFG under a financial microscope in recent years following the collapse of major backer Greensill.
2022/03/23/simec-gearing-up-to-start-work-on-280mw-south-australian-solar-farm/

Simec’s confirmation that it is preparing to commence construction of the Cultana Solar Farm follows the SA government’s announcement earlier this month it would provide a $50 million grant to co-finance efficiency projects at the Whyalla Steelworks.
 

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SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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I really don't understand that SunCable thing.

Singapore uses 51 Twh of Electricity a year, mostly Gas.
Australia uses 200TWh of Electricity a year , mostly Coal.

The same big solar farm could provide Electricity to Australia without needing an expensive record breaking subterranean cable.

Those in Singapore have already said they won't be committing to anything particularly high priced.

Are they chasing federal funds?
 

SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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They are at 75% nuclear powered and cruising along well. Quite a lot of the big voices in the emission zero targets are speaking on podiums powered by bulk nuclear power.

Some of the Germans are pushing the "total" sustainability model, which excludes nuclear, because the fission does actually use fuel, just no carbon/global warming.

I think that is mainly because they had nuclear and got rid of it and...well they don't like the French.
 

Taylor

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Some of the Germans are pushing the "total" sustainability model, which excludes nuclear, because the fission does actually use fuel, just no carbon/global warming.

I think that is mainly because they had nuclear and got rid of it and...well they don't like the French.

Looks a lot more like a politician creating a fake pedestal to stand on in order to hide the massive mistake they made by taking the less effective, more costly route that has made their national more vulnerable.
 

SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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Looks a lot more like a politician creating a fake pedestal to stand on in order to hide the massive mistake they made by taking the less effective, more costly route that has made their national more vulnerable.

I would say it was pretty dumb to build a nuclear power station on a fault line.
They went from being stupidly flippant to throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
 

Kwality

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I really don't understand that SunCable thing.

Singapore uses 51 Twh of Electricity a year, mostly Gas.
Australia uses 200TWh of Electricity a year , mostly Coal.

The same big solar farm could provide Electricity to Australia without needing an expensive record breaking subterranean cable.

Those in Singapore have already said they won't be committing to anything particularly high priced.

Are they chasing federal funds?

Does this help:
A 6.4GW, 800km overhead transmission line will carry power from Powell Creek to Darwin, with a 4200km subsea cable then moving electricity from Darwin to Singapore, where it aims to provide 15 per cent of the Asian nation’s needs.

Of course they are chasing federal funds ... why not?
 

SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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Does this help:
A 6.4GW, 800km overhead transmission line will carry power from Powell Creek to Darwin, with a 4200km subsea cable then moving electricity from Darwin to Singapore, where it aims to provide 15 per cent of the Asian nation’s needs.

Of course they are chasing federal funds ... why not?

My original question was, why supply Singapore when it is easier to supply Australia?
Why does the Federal Government want to sink funds into such a project when they need renewable energy in Australia?

Do we think Singapore will pay more? Singapore have stated that they wont.
I just hope they aren't taking advantage of a few gullible public servants to line a few individual pockets.

How much money do you sink into something that has no clear customer? I am absolutely opposed to government funding unless there is evidence that Singapore will purchase such electricity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------


To illustrate the point, Mr Allen noted Sun Cable was facing competition from projects that were much closer to Singapore, such as a 3.5GW solar farm earmarked for the Riau Islands in Indonesia, 270km away.

Singaporean energy market watcher Marc Allen says Sun Cable's sheer cost may count against it.(Supplied: Marc Allen)
He said there were also plans to further develop a regional power grid that could allow Singapore to import renewable energy sources, such as hydro-electricity from Laos.

Mr Allen said it seemed Sun Cable would need to find buyers in Singapore willing to shell out a premium for its green power, but he doubted there would be many takers.
 
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kranky al

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My original question was, why supply Singapore when it is easier to supply Australia?
Why does the Federal Government want to sink funds into such a project when they need renewable energy in Australia?

Do we think Singapore will pay more? Singapore have stated that they wont.
I just hope they aren't taking advantage of a few gullible public servants to line a few individual pockets.

How much money do you sink into something that has no clear customer? I am absolutely opposed to government funding unless there is evidence that Singapore will purchase such electricity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------


To illustrate the point, Mr Allen noted Sun Cable was facing competition from projects that were much closer to Singapore, such as a 3.5GW solar farm earmarked for the Riau Islands in Indonesia, 270km away.

Singaporean energy market watcher Marc Allen says Sun Cable's sheer cost may count against it.(Supplied: Marc Allen)
He said there were also plans to further develop a regional power grid that could allow Singapore to import renewable energy sources, such as hydro-electricity from Laos.

Mr Allen said it seemed Sun Cable would need to find buyers in Singapore willing to shell out a premium for its green power, but he doubted there would be many takers.
Just had a quick squizz at the climate in riau

How expensive is an asset that produces far less reliably….
250168E4-A5EE-4582-8599-79BAA4A881D2.jpeg
46284AC4-C1C2-42E0-8B96-D723E2628CC1.jpeg
source:Climate: Riau Islands, Indonesia
 

SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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None of them work at night.

Solar power is available , but less , during overcast conditions.
More panels are cheaper than the biggest submarine cable in the world.

In an open market people only use the most expensive when it can't be avoided.

But hey i quoted some Singapore energy experts , you told me what you reckon.
 

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Number37

Anyhow, have a Winfield 25.
Oct 5, 2013
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Nuclear batteries on every roof
What could possibly go wrong with that

Twas a joke.
...about our shitloads of potential nuclear fuel. Hopefully state govts put in place a nuclear fuel reservation policy before we export it all and have no nuclear power for ourselves. Wouldn't that be a shame.


Part 2 of the joke
Our ignoring of climate change will see us turn into Mars II in the not too distant future.
The Mars rover is powered by a radioisotope thermoelectric generator. 1 charge will last it 20 years. How amazeballs would that be?

FYI,
They craft the plutonium into bite size chunks, can't be inhaled, not aerosol, if it ever escaped the capsule that it is in....which is made out of the same material that they use on rockets to stop them burning up when they reenter the Earth's atmosphere.

FYI2,
I am not a fan of nuclear power.


FYI3,
I was asked for a solution, not a solution that was palatable, practical or affordable.
 

Cyg1992

Team Captain
May 8, 2017
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All ok here with power, never an issue.

Some West coast conservative raging at his TV/PC monitor about Trans athletes, greenies and whatever other sky news flavour of the week topic about 'tEh LeFt' is nothing for us to give even 2 nanoseconds of thought about.

Continue the clenched fist rage.
 

kranky al

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None of them work at night.

Solar power is available , but less , during overcast conditions.
More panels are cheaper than the biggest submarine cable in the world.

In an open market people only use the most expensive when it can't be avoided.

But hey i quoted some Singapore energy experts , you told me what you reckon.
But on the other side desert land is cheap as chips to lease….. weve got millions and millions of sq km of it. So once youve amortised a submarine cable - expansion is less restricted than an island chain that’s total area adds up to 90kmx90km
 

ChampRevesby

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May 8, 2012
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The gas companies write their own contracts over here. Fact
All gas fields are leased from the government, that's where you tell them what the deal is or gtfo. WA managed to get 15% guaranteed local supply, gas here is cheap as chips.
 

QuietB

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All gas fields are leased from the government, that's where you tell them what the deal is or gtfo. WA managed to get 15% guaranteed local supply, gas here is cheap as chips.

“Although a number of factors contributed to the current crisis – the war in Ukraine; record heat in India; La Niña rains in Australia and Indonesia that reduced coal supply; scheduled maintenance and breakdowns at coal-fired power stations; unusually cold weather; and reduced generation from wind and solar – at the bottom of it was the politics of appeasement. For decades, fossil fuel companies were more or less allowed to do whatever they wanted, with no policy drafted to maintain the integrity of domestic energy supply.”

99% foreign owned, export 75% of everything, Australia let’s them write their own rules.

We are simps
 

Kwality

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'The idea to connect Western Australia's gas resources to the eastern states is not new, but while some experts believe it is a no-brainer to shore up energy security, others say it will be obsolete by the time it is built as the nation forges ahead with its renewables transition.'

At least you can estimate a time when gas will be available, whats the timeline of the alternatives ?
 

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