The cock up that is the east coast energy market

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Carn The Berries

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So the driver has copped a $480ish fine for driving their car into the protestors, some of who are looking at jail time and $22k fines under the new legislation that NSW recently passed.

What a great free democracy we live in where protesting inaction on climate change is considered worse than driving your car into protestors
Surely that can't be right? There would be a slew of driving offences that they appear to have committed??


Apparently it is. You would hope he will be charged on summons for dangerous driving or something similar!
 

SaintsSeptember

TheBrownDog
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Surely that can't be right? There would be a slew of driving offences that they appear to have committed??


Apparently it is. You would hope he will be charged on summons for dangerous driving or something similar!


A reckless driving offence is knowingly or carelessly driving in a way which:

  • seriously endangers other road users and community members
  • creates an obvious and serious risk of causing physical injury to other road users
  • creates an obvious and serious risk of causing substantial property damage.
A furious driving offence is knowingly or carelessly driving at a speed which:

  • seriously endangers other road users and community members
  • creates an obvious and serious risk of causing physical injury to other road users.
You can still be charged with a furious driving offence even if there wasn't anyone on the road at the time of the offence.

PenaltyFirst offenceSecond or subsequent offence
Maximum court-imposed fine$2200$3300
Maximum prison term9 months12 months
Minimum disqualification12 months2 years
Maximum disqualificationUnlimitedUnlimited
Disqualification in the absence of a specific court order3 years5 years
 

Kwality

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How reliable is storage:

Tesla big battery fined for failing to deliver promised capacity when coal plant tripped​

28 June 2022

'The owner of the Hornsdale Power Reserve, which won fame as Australia’s biggest battery under the moniker the “Tesla big battery,” has been fined $900,000 by the federal court after being sued by the Australian Energy Regulator for the failure to deliver promised capacity.

Hornsdale was required to respond under a contract for “contingent frequency response” with AEMO. This is where the cavalry rushes in to address major network problems to prevent outages.'

'The action against the Hornsdale battery follows AER actions against various wind farms over the settings in the lead up to South Australia state-wide blackout in late 2016.

Also on Wednesday, AGL was ordered to pay $3.5 million in fines for operating low ride through settings at the Hallett wind farms, which justice Besanko described as a “serious breach of the National Electricity Rules.

It took total penalties against wind farms in South Australia to $6.15 million. Other wind farms to be penalised include the Snowtown 2 wind farm ($1 million), the Hornsdale wind farm (350,000) and the Clements Gap wind farm ($1.1 million.'

Just another cock up :rolleyes: or indicative of a battle to keep the lights on in the east coast energy market ...

 

Carn The Berries

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How reliable is storage:

Tesla big battery fined for failing to deliver promised capacity when coal plant tripped​

28 June 2022

'The owner of the Hornsdale Power Reserve, which won fame as Australia’s biggest battery under the moniker the “Tesla big battery,” has been fined $900,000 by the federal court after being sued by the Australian Energy Regulator for the failure to deliver promised capacity.

Hornsdale was required to respond under a contract for “contingent frequency response” with AEMO. This is where the cavalry rushes in to address major network problems to prevent outages.'

'The action against the Hornsdale battery follows AER actions against various wind farms over the settings in the lead up to South Australia state-wide blackout in late 2016.

Also on Wednesday, AGL was ordered to pay $3.5 million in fines for operating low ride through settings at the Hallett wind farms, which justice Besanko described as a “serious breach of the National Electricity Rules.

It took total penalties against wind farms in South Australia to $6.15 million. Other wind farms to be penalised include the Snowtown 2 wind farm ($1 million), the Hornsdale wind farm (350,000) and the Clements Gap wind farm ($1.1 million.'

Just another cock up :rolleyes: or indicative of a battle to keep the lights on in the east coast energy market ...

The rest of that article is actually quite interesting (if not completely partisan). Seems a technical issue rather than anything to do with the infrastructure not being able to do what it was forecast to do.

It does raise a good question about who is contractually responsible for what. Are coal power plants bound by the same requirement to supply? Given what has been happening over the last few months I daresay they're not.
 

Kwality

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Key points:​

  • Snowy Hydro has indicated the potential for the Tumut River to flood due to increased demand for electricity
  • Landholders are worried about the financial and environmental impacts that could have
  • Water managers say they are trying the balance the need for power with managing flood risks

In recent weeks electricity provider Snowy Hydro has been called on to increase production from its Tumut 3 Power Station....

Snowy Hydro has said on its website it is "significantly constrained" due to current water levels in Blowering Dam — the Water NSW-managed dam from which the Tumut River flows, and the final storage in the company's Tumut section of the Snowy scheme.
 

SaintsSeptember

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The rest of that article is actually quite interesting (if not completely partisan). Seems a technical issue rather than anything to do with the infrastructure not being able to do what it was forecast to do.

It does raise a good question about who is contractually responsible for what. Are coal power plants bound by the same requirement to supply? Given what has been happening over the last few months I daresay they're not.

As soon as it talks about "unreliable gas and coal" you know its bullshit. Its like saying "cars are unreliable". Yeah , they can be.
I know as a fact that the old SECV had a world standard preventive maintenance system. ( Recognition/prediction of machine failure before it happens so that repairs can be planned and fast ). Under privatisation policy changed to , "wait until it breaks , then fix it ).
How many blackouts and brownouts did we have before global warming was a thing?

We get vested parties on both sides trying to win the argument based on bullshit.


When we run the grid really close to the bone , then you start to see unreliability issues.
If you have the electricity dropping dramatically because a cloud front rolls over the state, the Coal stations will struggle to respond to that without a buffer.
( It used to take hours to start up a coal power station, computerisation has helped that , but its still nothing instant ).

As we bring in more and more fluctuating renewables, grid management will become a bigger issue.
 
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Kwality

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As soon as it talks about "unreliable gas and coal" you know its bullshit. Its like saying "cars are unreliable". Yeah , they can be.
I know as a fact that the old SECV had a world standard preventive maintenance system. ( Recognition/prediction of machine failure before it happens so that repairs can be planned and fast ). Under privatisation policy changed to , "wait until it breaks , then fix it ).
How many blackouts and brownouts did we have before global warming was a thing?

We get vested parties on both sides trying to win the argument based on bullshit.

How many blackouts and brownouts did we have before global warming was a thing?

When we run the grid really close to the bone , then you start to see unreliability issues.
If you have the electricity dropping dramatically because a cloud front rolls over the state, the Coal stations will struggle to respond to that without a buffer.
( It used to take hours to start up a coal power station, computerisation has helped that , but its still nothing instant ).

As we bring in more and more fluctuating renewables, grid management will become a bigger issue.

I've followed renewable energy Archives - RenewEconomy for some time as it does come at the issues from a green point of view BUT more often than not, its factual reporting is both accurate & clean, not reporting opinion as fact.
I understand your concerns but & have decided to accept the issues raised. Its true of most/all reporting these days.

My #1 issue is WHEN, when do the folks see fossil fuels gone & what has replaced them.

'AEMO, which is due to unveil the 2022 Integrated System Plan on Thursday, noted in a Tweet on Tuesday that the proposed capacity of new projects, mostly wind and solar and storage, now totalled 150.7GW, or 150,732MW, this month.'

See the link
“AEMO’s Generation Information file, updated in June, shows the fuel mix for existing generation and storage capacity in the NEM, totalling 59 GW,” it said.

“Projects in the pipeline are expected to increase this number to 150GW by 2032, with renewables leading the way.”




The overwhelming majority of new projects are wind (68GW), boosted by a raft of new offshore wind projects, followed by solar (36GW) and battery storage (27GW). There are only 7.2GW of new fossil fuel projects.'

'This scenario, endorsed by the overwhelming majority of energy stakeholders, predicted an 80 per cent share of renewable within a decade (up from 31 per cent now), and the end of brown coal generation by 2032, and all coal generation in the early 2040s.'
 

SaintsSeptember

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I've followed renewable energy Archives - RenewEconomy for some time as it does come at the issues from a green point of view BUT more often than not, its factual reporting is both accurate & clean, not reporting opinion as fact.
I understand your concerns but & have decided to accept the issues raised. Its true of most/all reporting these days.

My #1 issue is WHEN, when do the folks see fossil fuels gone & what has replaced them.

'AEMO, which is due to unveil the 2022 Integrated System Plan on Thursday, noted in a Tweet on Tuesday that the proposed capacity of new projects, mostly wind and solar and storage, now totalled 150.7GW, or 150,732MW, this month.'

See the link
“AEMO’s Generation Information file, updated in June, shows the fuel mix for existing generation and storage capacity in the NEM, totalling 59 GW,” it said.

“Projects in the pipeline are expected to increase this number to 150GW by 2032, with renewables leading the way.”




The overwhelming majority of new projects are wind (68GW), boosted by a raft of new offshore wind projects, followed by solar (36GW) and battery storage (27GW). There are only 7.2GW of new fossil fuel projects.'

'This scenario, endorsed by the overwhelming majority of energy stakeholders, predicted an 80 per cent share of renewable within a decade (up from 31 per cent now), and the end of brown coal generation by 2032, and all coal generation in the early 2040s.'

Its always hard to work out how the numbers are calculated.
Its pretty easy with Coal / Nuclear /Gas/ A 1GW Power station makes 1GW.
A 1GW solar installation in Victoria will probably average 4GW per day, which makes it equivalent to a 0.16 GW ( 160MW ) Gas Station.


In this we see that 921Mw of battery provides only 1169 Mw hours of electricity.
If you wanted to provide electricity for 10 hours in winter, that 921Mw battery would need to be limited to 117Mw.
It is important to have high output batteries though, because sudden changes in weather can destabilise a grid with a large percentage of wind and solar, and something like a gas plant can't respond fast enough.
 

Kwality

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My frustration is that we should be seeing a plan to keep the lights on - too simple ?
 

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CM86

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My frustration is that we should be seeing a plan to keep the lights on - too simple ?
1656558915586.png
 

SaintsSeptember

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Your point being?

 

CM86

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Your point being?

That you're making compelling points, and he has dipped into the well of SkyNewsAustralia talking points.

It's his M.O.
 

Kwality

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Queensland left to do heavy lifting on energy



'The crisis does lay in the lack of policy certainty at the federal level, not just in the past few years of Liberal/National rule, but also with Labor, which failed to bring the community with it from 2007 to 2013 on climate. The “carbon tax” became a toxic weapon as Labor struggled to explain the global benefits over the domestic pain being caused by the measure.

So while it’s welcome that Labor wants to “end the climate war”, we need a peacetime plan for national energy security.'

.... the gas produced in WA’s North West Shelf is “wet gas” where high-value hydrocarbons are collected and sold on by the gas producers.

It’s a very different market to the gas found now on the east coast, which overwhelmingly is coal seam gas, often extracted with fracking. In addition, most east coast gas is now produced out of Queensland with a huge emphasis on export LNG. Queensland gave development approvals without the requirement for domestic gas reservation and has seen a multi-billion-dollar industry established in the past decade that can produce record quantities because of that policy certainty.

Though I have sympathy for the many manufacturers who are facing world parity gas prices and clearly households are under financial pressure, it’s not that Australia doesn’t have enough gas or proponents prepared to back import terminals for LNG. What is needed is for the governments in NSW and Victoria is to make the same level of contribution as Queensland does.

Just as Queensland’s fleet of publicly owned, modern coal-fired generators has kept the lights on for the premiers of NSW and Victoria, so too has its supplies into the national gas market.
This all while Victoria’s ageing power fleet stumbles into retirement and NSW’s government actively cheers on and backs the closure of AGL’s power stations, some of the nation’s biggest.
Both states’ power stations are yielding to the energy uncertainty delivered by green-tinged governments. NSW has vast areas that can produce gas, as does Victoria with onshore gas. Both resources have faced years of approvals uncertainty or a ban under a politically motivated moratorium in Victoria.
Both states are sitting on import terminal planning applications for Geelong and Port Kembla respectively, yet neither have been approved.

The only explanation is that both states want Queensland to be forced to reserve gas for their domestic users like WA, and in so doing unfairly burden Queensland producers who invested in good faith.
The Andrews Labor government and the Perrottet Liberals would prefer to pander to anti-fossil fuel zealots found in the Greens and teals’ elected representatives than open up more supply in their own states.
The activist movement, having demonised coal, are doing the very same to gas, despite gas globally helping achieve many nations’ Paris climate targets.
Australia needs a national energy security compact that involves NSW and Victoria setting aside self-serving domestic politics and acting in the national interest to supply more gas.


If NSW and Victoria won’t step up, national leadership is required. Supplying more gas into the market will help keep downward pressure on gas prices and provide certainty of price and supply. Preferably, this would be Australian gas produced for Australia, but at the very least it should be about increasing supply and access to imported gas rather than asking Queensland yet again to not only keep the lights on, but take an unacceptable hit to its own gas industry to fix problems of NSW and Victoria’s own making.


Cameron Milner has worked on three election campaigns for Annastacia Palaszczuk.
authors

 

SaintsSeptember

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Queensland left to do heavy lifting on energy



'The crisis does lay in the lack of policy certainty at the federal level, not just in the past few years of Liberal/National rule, but also with Labor, which failed to bring the community with it from 2007 to 2013 on climate. The “carbon tax” became a toxic weapon as Labor struggled to explain the global benefits over the domestic pain being caused by the measure.

So while it’s welcome that Labor wants to “end the climate war”, we need a peacetime plan for national energy security.'

.... the gas produced in WA’s North West Shelf is “wet gas” where high-value hydrocarbons are collected and sold on by the gas producers.

It’s a very different market to the gas found now on the east coast, which overwhelmingly is coal seam gas, often extracted with fracking. In addition, most east coast gas is now produced out of Queensland with a huge emphasis on export LNG. Queensland gave development approvals without the requirement for domestic gas reservation and has seen a multi-billion-dollar industry established in the past decade that can produce record quantities because of that policy certainty.

Though I have sympathy for the many manufacturers who are facing world parity gas prices and clearly households are under financial pressure, it’s not that Australia doesn’t have enough gas or proponents prepared to back import terminals for LNG. What is needed is for the governments in NSW and Victoria is to make the same level of contribution as Queensland does.

Just as Queensland’s fleet of publicly owned, modern coal-fired generators has kept the lights on for the premiers of NSW and Victoria, so too has its supplies into the national gas market.
This all while Victoria’s ageing power fleet stumbles into retirement and NSW’s government actively cheers on and backs the closure of AGL’s power stations, some of the nation’s biggest.
Both states’ power stations are yielding to the energy uncertainty delivered by green-tinged governments. NSW has vast areas that can produce gas, as does Victoria with onshore gas. Both resources have faced years of approvals uncertainty or a ban under a politically motivated moratorium in Victoria.
Both states are sitting on import terminal planning applications for Geelong and Port Kembla respectively, yet neither have been approved.

The only explanation is that both states want Queensland to be forced to reserve gas for their domestic users like WA, and in so doing unfairly burden Queensland producers who invested in good faith.
The Andrews Labor government and the Perrottet Liberals would prefer to pander to anti-fossil fuel zealots found in the Greens and teals’ elected representatives than open up more supply in their own states.
The activist movement, having demonised coal, are doing the very same to gas, despite gas globally helping achieve many nations’ Paris climate targets.
Australia needs a national energy security compact that involves NSW and Victoria setting aside self-serving domestic politics and acting in the national interest to supply more gas.


If NSW and Victoria won’t step up, national leadership is required. Supplying more gas into the market will help keep downward pressure on gas prices and provide certainty of price and supply. Preferably, this would be Australian gas produced for Australia, but at the very least it should be about increasing supply and access to imported gas rather than asking Queensland yet again to not only keep the lights on, but take an unacceptable hit to its own gas industry to fix problems of NSW and Victoria’s own making.


Cameron Milner has worked on three election campaigns for Annastacia Palaszczuk.
authors


If Natural gas is bad for global warming, "Liquid Natural Gas" complete with fuel driven transport is worse. Queensland is already the worst state for Carbon intensity.

Victoria does not get their electricity from Queensland.
Even though the grid is joined, it becomes inefficient to transmit AC electricity over long distances. Victoria bore the cost of providing electricity from Latrobe Valley to Portland ( another idiot Government debacle ) and that was bad enough.

Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

( Click on the Fuel Mix Tab).
Self used Rooftop Solar is not included in the data there, so that probably explains one of the reasons there is a high demand after sunset.
 
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Kwality

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'Victoria will demand at the next meeting of federal and state energy ministers that governments set dates for the completion of transmission links to ensure renewable energy projects worth billions of dollars can be connected to the grid on time.'

How is that for Minister D'Ambrosio/Victoria's involvement in this cock up .... hands off ?
Surely, IF Victorians are involved, OUR Government is across the issues :rolleyes:

The latest roadmap for updating the National Energy Market, released on Thursday by the Australian Energy Market Operator (Aemo), identified five major new transmission lines requiring urgent action so enough new clean energy and storage capacity is built in time for the expected accelerated exit of ageing coal-fired power plants from the grid.


Tennant Reed, a senior energy policy expert at the AiGroup, said the projects’ urgency was “very great”.

“There’s no doubt that we do need a boatload of transmission to facilitate the pace of closure that we’re facing from existing generators,” he said.

Reed said D’Ambrosio was right that “we need the capacity soon and we need to know when it’s coming”.
 

Demonic Ascent

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'The idea to connect Western Australia's gas resources to the eastern states is not new, but while some experts believe it is a no-brainer to shore up energy security, others say it will be obsolete by the time it is built as the nation forges ahead with its renewables transition.'

At least you can estimate a time when gas will be available, whats the timeline of the alternatives ?
The Eastern states have enough gas, it's just that we allow the private companies to ship it all offshore. Enough of this price gouging, we should take back control of our natural resources.
 

Kwality

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The Eastern states have enough gas, it's just that we allow the private companies to ship it all offshore. Enough of this price gouging, we should take back control of our natural resources.

Abysmal or ignorant ?
 

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