Mega Thread The Collingwood rollercoaster - all general angst and ranting directed here

Not trying to make excuses - just worried the Port players were contagious, if they got you guys I worry for Sydney. Chin up boys' :)

Port had an outbreak of viral meningitis.

To my knowledge none of the Port players who played in the Collingwood game were affected.

I'd imagine club doctors would quarantine any players that had it, and no way would they be allowed to take the field (or be in any condition to play)
 

PieNSauce

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In fairness to Buckley did you honestly expect him to be an elite coach in the space of 3 years? I'm not liking what I'm seeing from him, but the concern I have is that 3 years in we still haven't seen what he can do with a healthy list. Which leads to my current gripe with the club.

We s**t money in comparison with most other clubs, however it's amounted to the worst stretch of injuries that I have seen in my time watching the game. Whatever we are doing it is fundementally wrong and needs to be addressed. Are we doing enough research on prevention? Rehab? Recovery post match? I'm not expecting a charmed run where we go 8 weeks without a fresh injury, but what I do expect is to not lose a player a week in the final training session for 6 weeks in a row. There is no way on gods green earth that that s**t isn't avoidable...

The question on what exactly we're doing needed to be asked at the AGM earlier this year and I'm still disappointed that it wasn't raised when we instead invested an extra $1 million into our media department. That extra million towards the medical/ sport science department may not have been the difference, but boy it would have provided more benefit to us onfield than when invested in media!

I would love to see Pert held accountable for these sorts of decisions because the buck stops with him, but pigs will fly and all. Externally it appears that we're so focussed on 80k members and all that goes with it that we've taken our eye off the easiest way to maintain that which is winning!
This! Great post Scodog10. This is where people need to focus their frustration rather than just be trying to burn down the clubhouse!
 

vonn

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Port had an outbreak of viral meningitis.

To my knowledge none of the Port players who played in the Collingwood game were affected.

I'd imagine club doctors would quarantine any players that had it, and no way would they be allowed to take the field (or be in any condition to play)

There was just a post on our board about how the betting dropped dramatically owing to the Col. team being infected, I don't know how true it is but that's why I've come to ask :)
 

Starcevich90

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In fairness to Buckley did you honestly expect him to be an elite coach in the space of 3 years? I'm not liking what I'm seeing from him, but the concern I have is that 3 years in we still haven't seen what he can do with a healthy list. Which leads to my current gripe with the club.

We s**t money in comparison with most other clubs, however it's amounted to the worst stretch of injuries that I have seen in my time watching the game. Whatever we are doing it is fundementally wrong and needs to be addressed. Are we doing enough research on prevention? Rehab? Recovery post match? I'm not expecting a charmed run where we go 8 weeks without a fresh injury, but what I do expect is to not lose a player a week in the final training session for 6 weeks in a row. There is no way on gods green earth that that s**t isn't avoidable...

The question on what exactly we're doing needed to be asked at the AGM earlier this year and I'm still disappointed that it wasn't raised when we instead invested an extra $1 million into our media department. That extra million towards the medical/ sport science department may not have been the difference, but boy it would have provided more benefit to us onfield than when invested in media!

I would love to see Pert held accountable for these sorts of decisions because the buck stops with him, but pigs will fly and all. Externally it appears that we're so focussed on 80k members and all that goes with it that we've taken our eye off the easiest way to maintain that which is winning!
Couldn't agree more on injury front, that is an aspect we are trailing the comp badly in.

However, that aside, I would have expected to see some semblance of team system/game plan by now under Bucks, but we are just a nothing team.

Think of Roos at Swans (even at Melbourne you can see what he's trying to do), Hinkley at Port, etc.

It's not all about winning, it's implementing a simple, effective style of play that players take to and trust, and also knowing how to handle and maximise different personalities.

Am not seeing it - even our wins have been scrappy and when opposition out of form, and who has really become elite under Bucks?
 

Starcevich90

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In fairness to Buckley did you honestly expect him to be an elite coach in the space of 3 years? I'm not liking what I'm seeing from him, but the concern I have is that 3 years in we still haven't seen what he can do with a healthy list. Which leads to my current gripe with the club.

We s**t money in comparison with most other clubs, however it's amounted to the worst stretch of injuries that I have seen in my time watching the game. Whatever we are doing it is fundementally wrong and needs to be addressed. Are we doing enough research on prevention? Rehab? Recovery post match? I'm not expecting a charmed run where we go 8 weeks without a fresh injury, but what I do expect is to not lose a player a week in the final training session for 6 weeks in a row. There is no way on gods green earth that that s**t isn't avoidable...

The question on what exactly we're doing needed to be asked at the AGM earlier this year and I'm still disappointed that it wasn't raised when we instead invested an extra $1 million into our media department. That extra million towards the medical/ sport science department may not have been the difference, but boy it would have provided more benefit to us onfield than when invested in media!

I would love to see Pert held accountable for these sorts of decisions because the buck stops with him, but pigs will fly and all. Externally it appears that we're so focussed on 80k members and all that goes with it that we've taken our eye off the easiest way to maintain that which is winning!
Couldn't agree more on injury front, that is an aspect we are trailing the comp badly in.

However, that aside, I would have expected to see some semblance of team system/game plan by now under Bucks, but we are just a nothing team.

Think of Roos at Swans (even at Melbourne you can see what he's trying to do), Hinkley at Port, etc.

It's not all about winning, it's implementing a simple, effective style of play that players take to and trust, and also knowing how to handle and maximise different personalities.

Am not seeing it - even our wins have been scrappy and when opposition out of form, and who has really become elite under Bucks?
 
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Couldn't agree more on injury front, that is an aspect we are trailing the comp badly in.

However, that aside, I would have expected to see some semblance of team system/game plan by now under Bucks, but we are just a nothing team.

Think of Roos at Swans (even at Melbourne you can see what he's trying to do), Hinkley at Port, etc.

It's not all about winning, it's implementing a simple, effective style of play that players take to and trust, and also knowing how to handle and maximise different personalities.

Am not seeing it - even our wins have been scrappy and when opposition out of form, and who has really become elite under Bucks?

I agree with the rationale of what you're saying I just think it is a very high standard you're setting especially when I never believed MM to be an elite coach myself anyway (he went 15 seasons without a premiership which isn't elite), but that's just my opinion.

I'd probably prefer to stay away from Buckley related stuff in this thread, but I covered his lack of a stamp on the way we play in the coaching megathread. It's something he hasn't given us yet. I still think we should have had that after 3 years injuries or not.

On players becoming elite apart from Elliott and Beams no one (though with the suspension I think it may have finally clicked for Steele). I'm less concerned with players becoming elite though I just want gradual improvement from individuals and we aren't even getting that currently.
 

PhiloBeddoe

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All I am saying is the press didn't just pop up in 2010 when Buckley came back, which is what many people incorrectly claim.

It was devised by MM and the other coaches well before that.

Yes, we were taking elements of what Saints were doing and putting our own twist on it, but nothing wrong with that whatsoever, and it was brilliantly done.

I'm no PhD in game plans, but I think you could clearly identify team discipline, system and passion from 2001-2003, and after a rebuild on run, again from 2006-2011.

If you are content with what you see under Buckley that's fine, and if you can explain to me what on earth he's trying to do with his current "trademarks" and "brand" of footy please go ahead.

All I see is a confused team without any flair or system.
Ok. Micks rebuild lasted 2 years before we saw finals in 2006. Even then the dogs sent us packing by 7 goals.
If we lament Our demise atm, what was happening in 2004 and 2005 when we bottomed out? There were some shitful performances in there and no finals. Perhaps you gave Mick the excuse of blooding players or even mentioned injuries? Many of us had gotten ahead of ourselves and predicted a dynasty which was outright ridiculous. The fact that Buckley is not being afforded the same latitude by many in here is laughable.
I'll save the gameplan stuff for another post but I do see what he is trying to do but the execution is suffering. If he was to go along the lines of MM's 'we just don't have the cattle' we'd be sitting on the bottom.
 

Starcevich90

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Ok. Micks rebuild lasted 2 years before we saw finals in 2006. Even then the dogs sent us packing by 7 goals.
If we lament Our demise atm, what was happening in 2004 and 2005 when we bottomed out? There were some shitful performances in there and no finals. Perhaps you gave Mick the excuse of blooding players or even mentioned injuries? Many of us had gotten ahead of ourselves and predicted a dynasty which was outright ridiculous. The fact that Buckley is not being afforded the same latitude by many in here is laughable.
I'll save the gameplan stuff for another post but I do see what he is trying to do but the execution is suffering. If he was to go along the lines of MM's 'we just don't have the cattle' we'd be sitting on the bottom.
Fair call, I think there's some latitude to be afforded with a first time coach and the injury situation. But we would want to see some kind of upward curve next year or Bucks should be in trouble.

I'd hate to see the generational talents of Pendles, Beams, Cloke and co. wasted on blind loyalty to a coach who can't cut it. We need to be ruthless in this regard and ditch this jobs for the boys mentality.

In relation to 2004-05, MM had credits in the bank with consecutive GF appearances and having inherited an ordinary list. Brutal as it is, Bucks has no such credits unfortunately - he took over a powerhouse.

And the poor execution is Bucks' responsibility - either bring through players who can do what you require, or adapt your game plan to the skills of the players you have. This pinpoint crap through the middle is way beyond far too many of the current squad.
 

PhiloBeddoe

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Fair call, I think there's some latitude to be afforded with a first time coach and the injury situation. But we would want to see some kind of upward curve next year or Bucks should be in trouble.

I'd hate to see the generational talents of Pendles, Beams, Cloke and co. wasted on blind loyalty to a coach who can't cut it. We need to be ruthless in this regard and ditch this jobs for the boys mentality.

In relation to 2004-05, MM had credits in the bank with consecutive GF appearances and having inherited an ordinary list. Brutal as it is, Bucks has no such credits unfortunately - he took over a powerhouse.

And the poor execution is Bucks' responsibility - either bring through players who can do what you require, or adapt your game plan to the skills of the players you have. This pinpoint crap through the middle is way beyond far too many of the current squad.
The powerhouse was never the same after 2011 and is a mere shell now. Buckley lost Krak and Ball in the same year, Didak started a run with injury, Jolly couldn't jump over a jam tin, regardless of the ruck excuse Dawes struggled to show any real physical presence etc. If he had the luxury of the same team rolling on and we're still suffering, I'd be seriously questioning Bucks as well.
The powerhouse of Sydney circa 05 and 06 suffered a similar slide as Collingwood. I don't think West Coast fared much better for a couple of years.
May sound strange but I honestly think he is trying to avoid excessive stoppages because of the inexperience of our ruck division and lack of hard insiders. So keep the ball moving through the middle or keep possession until we find a gap. Could be an explanation as to why we like to handball our way out of the backline. If we clear to the boundary, we get stoppages we don't want. If we look beyond the centre square when bringing the ball out, we run the risk of the ball coming straight back due to lack of tall options.
We won't see the plan executed well until Bucks has close to a full book of players. Calling for his head right now is akin to a kid hassling mum for chocolate biscuits at a supermarket when she's only able to afford the essentials.
 

Somebody

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Both Hawthorn and Geelong "underperformed" for many years and they were calling for coaches' heads, before they became all-time great teams. MM took many years to get Cwood up there.

It takes time. Baby bombers were just an abberation, I'd suspect in that year the standard wasn't so high, and they didn't last v long anyway.
 

THATSGOLD

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The powerhouse was never the same after 2011 and is a mere shell now. Buckley lost Krak and Ball in the same year, Didak started a run with injury, Jolly couldn't jump over a jam tin, regardless of the ruck excuse Dawes struggled to show any real physical presence etc. If he had the luxury of the same team rolling on and we're still suffering, I'd be seriously questioning Bucks as well.
The powerhouse of Sydney circa 05 and 06 suffered a similar slide as Collingwood. I don't think West Coast fared much better for a couple of years.
May sound strange but I honestly think he is trying to avoid excessive stoppages because of the inexperience of our ruck division and lack of hard insiders. So keep the ball moving through the middle or keep possession until we find a gap. Could be an explanation as to why we like to handball our way out of the backline. If we clear to the boundary, we get stoppages we don't want. If we look beyond the centre square when bringing the ball out, we run the risk of the ball coming straight back due to lack of tall options.
We won't see the plan executed well until Bucks has close to a full book of players. Calling for his head right now is akin to a kid hassling mum for chocolate biscuits at a supermarket when she's only able to afford the essentials.
You mention the stoppages, watching the West Coast game there were times where the ball was thrown up around the grounds and we were already out numbered, is that fitness or lack of effort or maybe we are going in too tall? Can't work it out.
 

ColinMochrie

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Our form has dropped as the season went on. NOONE could have predicted that!

Oh wait.... The majority of the board said many times the young players will tire as the season goes on. Because that's what happens.

We overrated our players from 2010 by a ridiculous amount. The one thing I give Mick credit for is the forward press. THAT is what won us a flag. It lasts mid 2010 to mid 2011. Then we fell back into the pack.

That's all there is to it. Mick gets way too much credit because I believe it is our drafting and development of players that are our strength. That's why Mick is and will struggle at the blues and didn't have too much success at Footscray. The whole coaching and management team was fantastic during that era. We lost most of them to coaching roles.

Our solid good players right now would consist of pendles, beams.... Maybe side bottom...
Before you complain actually look at the team that is playing! We are young, especially in crucial areas. Again injuries have been an issue. The players from the premiership that remain in the team on a regular basis are the bit players. Lumumba, Blair and the likes. They are not skilled and never have been. Swan has been injured all year, ball is ageing, Reid and brown injured, forward line struggling and replacements injured in vfl.

The young players are being exposed and struggling to remain composed under pressure. The "A graders" are getting more attention because there aren't as many stars to stop.

It all adds up and leads to a drop in form. We are rebuilding and it needs to happen! We have good drafting and good development. We have the ingredients of a team that COULD challenge in the future IF things go rights and IF we are lucky with injuries.

Having a run of flags is a very rare thing. You can't expect it to occur. The flag has been tainted with 5 years of tantrums every time we look average. News flash: WE ARE AVERAGE. Because that's how things work in the AFL, especially when success is based upon a game plan and not players.

I too am given Bucks another year to show improvement instead of going backwards. If things go worse than this year then I would start thinking of another coach but only if a skilful supercoach becomes available.

Changing coaches rarely changes a teams fortunes. Look at the blues. Look at the dees. Look at the tigers.

It's about building a team and you can't so that in 2 seasons. I have seen progress and like what I am seeing with the young players. There is no doubt a team spirit this season. We finally seem over the whole division after the malthouse bullshit. And now some of you want to start it all up again. It will take at least a season to adjust to the new coach, then a season again to become adept in the new gameplan. So if you think Bucks is so horrible you want to throw away 2 seasons go ahead. But you will not have a chance of another flag with what little of the premiership group we have if we do that.

Now to leave this thread. Thank you mods for finally making a rant thread so the entire board isn't swallowed in negative knee jerk posts!
 
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Our form has dropped as the season went on. NOONE could have predicted that!

Oh wait.... The majority of the board said many times the young players will tire as the season goes on. Because that's what happens.

We overrated our players from 2010 by a ridiculous amount. The one thing I give Mick credit for is the forward press. THAT is what won us a flag. It lasts mid 2010 to mid 2011. Then we fell back into the pack.

That's all there is to it. Mick gets way too much credit because I believe it is our drafting and development of players that are our strength. That's why Mick is and will struggle at the blues and didn't have too much success at Footscray. The whole coaching and management team was fantastic during that era. We lost most of them to coaching roles.

Our solid good players right now would consist of pendles, beams.... Maybe side bottom...
Before you complain actually look at the team that is playing! We are young, especially in crucial areas. Again injuries have been an issue. The players from the premiership that remain in the team on a regular basis are the bit players. Lumumba, Blair and the likes. They are not skilled and never have been. Swan has been injured all year, ball is ageing, Reid and brown injured, forward line struggling and replacements injured in vfl.

The young players are being exposed and struggling to remain composed under pressure. The "A graders" are getting more attention because there aren't as many stars to stop.

It all adds up and leads to a drop in form. We are rebuilding and it needs to happen! We have good drafting and good development. We have the ingredients of a team that COULD challenge in the future IF things go rights and IF we are lucky with injuries.

Having a run of flags is a very rare thing. You can't expect it to occur. The flag has been tainted with 5 years of tantrums every time we look average. News flash: WE ARE AVERAGE. Because that's how things work in the AFL, especially when success is based upon a game plan and not players.

I too am given Bucks another year to show improvement instead of going backwards. If things go worse than this year then I would start thinking of another coach but only if a skilful supercoach becomes available.

Changing coaches rarely changes a teams fortunes. Look at the blues. Look at the dees. Look at the tigers.

It's about building a team and you can't so that in 2 seasons. I have seen progress and like what I am seeing with the young players. There is no doubt a team spirit this season. We finally seem over the whole division after the malthouse bullshit. And now some of you want to start it all up again. It will take at least a season to adjust to the new coach, then a season again to become adept in the new gameplan. So if you think Bucks is so horrible you want to throw away 2 seasons go ahead. But you will not have a chance of another flag with what little of the premiership group we have if we do that.

Now to leave this thread. Thank you mods for finally making a rant thread so the entire board isn't swallowed in negative knee jerk posts!
I way I see it here is that many of you are defending the indefensible. Injuries doesn't account for us losing to sides like Western Bulldogs, Gold Coast and Adelaide. We won the premiership four years ago and still have about 10 premiership players in the side, yet we are playing like a bottom four side. To win flags you have to show ruthlessness and we are simply oblivious to the reality that we are going backwards under the present coaching team. Manchester United soccer club sacked their coaching successor to Alan Ferguson before the year was out. It's time that we recognised that whatever strategy we have in place is not working and we need to change now before we fall further behind.
 

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The injuries absolutely gives me the shits, consistently having players injured at the final training session of the week which is generally a light session does my head in. The time it takes our players to return from the injuries is even worse, we constantly have expected return times being blown out further and further.

To top this off two things put out by the club yesterday have just topped it off, this article on the website http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2014-08-13/holden-high-performance-the-impact-of-a-preseason not sure what the purpose of it is or what it says that everyone doesn't know already. Whatever he's doing it's not working.

The other was a comment made by Trav Cloke on The Club last night, where he said " The facilities we have here are first class, if you can't get the most out of your body at this place, you're doing something wrong" Based on that, we are doing a *load wrong...

Oh two more things, why in the * has the club started putting up only a few segments of The Club on it's website the night it airs and then do the rest the next day, and also why in the * do they feel the need to split it into 6-7 videos, ffs just post it in full on the night it airs(which Essendon do with their foxtel show).

The other is the midweek Bucks presser, the one this week was cut to about 1:45, it left out all his comments on Ball and Swan which I thought was the most interesting parts, had to find out what he said in the day/s following via hs reports etc.

This was fun, great thread!!!
 
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But we got smashed by 20 goals the week before our first final in 2011. That was with the best team we've had in 25 years and the best coach. Please explain!
You have up days and down games. You follow the trend, not individual games. In 2011 we won more home and away games than in 2010. We lost the GF to a better side on the day in 2011. They say s__t happens. Look at StKilda and those years with Ross Lyon, so don't blame Malthouse for losing to Geelong. Fact is every year since Buckley has taken charge we have fallen further behind on the ladder.
 

PhiloBeddoe

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You mention the stoppages, watching the West Coast game there were times where the ball was thrown up around the grounds and we were already out numbered, is that fitness or lack of effort or maybe we are going in too tall? Can't work it out.
It could be a number of things but rather than go in to all of them, I'll talk about one.
It only takes one or two players to ball watch or be in two minds about whether to follow their man in or sit off the stoppage and contribute to the spread.
It's typical of a team with young players not only on the ball but also in the half forward and half back line. Obviously if the other team is getting hands on the pill first, being outnumbered costs you big time. In one game it will all click, in the next game you get smashed.
 

ColinMochrie

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I way I see it here is that many of you are defending the indefensible. Injuries doesn't account for us losing to sides like Western Bulldogs, Gold Coast and Adelaide. We won the premiership four years ago and still have about 10 premiership players in the side, yet we are playing like a bottom four side. To win flags you have to show ruthlessness and we are simply oblivious to the reality that we are going backwards under the present coaching team. Manchester United soccer club sacked their coaching successor to Alan Ferguson before the year was out. It's time that we recognised that whatever strategy we have in place is not working and we need to change now before we fall further behind.

Please just look at the premiership players that remain. Apart from pendles, beams and Steele most of the players are either average and were back in 2010 or have been injured or coming back from injury. Ball, swan, Reid and the likes. The saints and dogs have 6-7 players left from 2010 too and they are at the bottom of the ladder. Hawks fell apart after 2008. Because of injuries.

I am defending the fact that collingwood is simply following the normal phases of afl football. Also our game plan, much like the young hawks of 2008 with the clarkson cluster, was figured out and we don't look as good without it.

I wish people would be constructive and posts ways to fix this and why their solutions will fix it. You don't sack people unless there is a better person out there and you are willing to sacrifice 2 seasons bringing a new coach in. We can't all be Geelong and have a dynasty for 7 years in a row. To sack a person for not being an exception to the general way afl works in his 3rd season is just taking a big step backwards for no guarantee of taking steps forward.
 

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I have always tried to remain optimistic. Even after all the signs it was happening again, out of blind faith, I tried to ignore them. I thought we were on the right track when we were 8-3 and had just accounted for a determined Melbourne outfit. I thought the loss to the Dogs was just an aberration.

I thought we were a good team.

Oh, how wrong was I?

There were some clear problems we had at the start of the year even when we were winning. I thought the problem with the forward line structure was because of the lack of personnel. I thought the poor finishes to the Carlton, Richmond and to a lesser extent, the North Melbourne games were a result of the coach instructing the team to ease their pressure for preservation. I thought these problems would've been fixed as we progressed through the year.

Instead, they've worsened. Our forward structure has been worse than it was earlier in the year. At least then it was compensated by our hard defensive running. Now that has gone too. Our foot skills are the worst in the competition. We are also among the worst stoppage teams in the competition. Our injury situation has been farcical for so long now that it can't just be put to bad luck. The game plan that we thought we had has evaporated and been replaced with this short lateral kicking horseshit.

So who or what is to blame for this mess?

Inexperience? Injuries?

NO! IT'S THE MUPPET IN CHARGE!!!!

I THOUGHT HE HAD HOPE BUT HOW WRONG WAS I?
 

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Poll is rigged, not voting. :p
 
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