Opinion The Collingwood Versus Port Adelaide Jumper Debate continues...

[Toump Ass]

Collingwood were very gracious to allow Port Adelaide to wear Bootleg Collingwood jumpers a handful of times, but enough is enough.

They can wear "Prison Bars" as long as they add some teal.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

This is a false equivalence....if West Coast wanted to wear that guernsey for every home game, or whenever they wanted, then it would be the exact same discussion as the Prison Bar one, but with 2 different teams. Wearing it for 1 game didn't matter.

Plus, I said that I'm happy for Port to wear the Prison Bars. I only brought up the Sydney thing because it was topical at the time, and sparked discussion.

Is it? I don't recall there being any controversy when they wore Richmond's design with their colours inverted.

 

[jsdsgn]

Is it? I don't recall there being any controversy when they wore Richmond's design with their colours inverted.

And I don't think there should be any controversy if Port want to wear their Prison Bar Guernsey.

If West Coast had wanted to wear that guernsey against Richmond, then there would've definitely been controversy. But that's not the case.

The issue lies with the agreements that have been signed, not emotional attachment to the topic from AFL fans and whether they think it's controversial.

 

[LordLucifer]

I do not understand why this "prison bar" jumper thing has become such a big issue.

Port want to wear it in their Showdown games, where is the problem here ??

FFS, just approve the wearing of the jumper and move on, way too much theatre coupled with a rather liberal dose of "sports entertainment" for my liking.

 

[bomberclifford]

In 2007, the then Collingwood president drafted an agreement for Port to wear the bars in heritage rounds, which at the time was once a year. They signed it, the AFL signed it, and Port signed it.

Heritage rounds being cancelled the year after, meant that we never got to benefit from that agreement. Nothing Port are asking for now is beyond what this agreement, if made in good faith, would have delivered. In fact it automatically removes the potential of a Port heritage round being scheduled outside of SA, or against Collingwood.

If the 2007 agreement was made in good faith, why is it a "no" from Collingwood now? What's changed?

If the 2007 agreement was made in bad faith, (which we all know it was), why is this agreement being held up as something that needs to be adhered to by Port, and by Port alone?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Port Adelaide need to find their own guernsey instead of trying to steal Collingwood's

Typical Victorian club arrogance.

 

[AndyD]

I may be wrong but isn’t the AFL the body that owns the legal rights to all team designs, colours and logo’s? If that’s the case, it’s up to the AFL to make the decision independent of Collingwood and Port as the clubs themselves do not own their designs although they represent and wear them.

I think this the most under discussed point in the entire debate. It is hard to assume the clubs would’ve given up those rights without certain assurances that those colours/names etc wouldn’t be allowed to be used by others, without the originals clubs permission. If that is the case, the AFL allowing Port to wear the prison bars over Collingwood objection, could give Collingwood the ability to walk away from the licensing agreement and remove the one thing that keeps the league together and opens the door up for a breakaway competition. It makes sense why Port wouldn’t seem to have much support from the other 16 clubs if that is the case.

 

[Anderson Brown]

If anything, Port should also be banned from wearing the prison bars in the SANFL as well.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Teal stripes lol

The generosity!

 

[refresh]

Teal stripes lol

The generosity!

View attachment 1471120

Not sure why Collingwood have any say in how many times Port Adelaide choose to wear a jumper design like that.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Bahaha yeah... I don't think Collingwood get to "allow" Port to wear teal stripes.

Having said that, it's clearly the best Port design aside from the white bars. Dunno why they never thought of it in the first place.

 

[melanChronic]

Article straight out of this thread: Davy Jones' Locker Room

Can't believe that Ralph would write that article earnestly.

Only way Port would bastardise the bars like that would be if the proper bars were guaranteed for at least once a year, and then make the bastardised version full time strip. Even then, it should be with silver, not teal. Teal looks hideous with it (as it does on most things).

 

[LoungeLizard]

Port Adelaides contract with Adelaide oval dictates Port playing all home games there, so when they went to China they needed a club to abandon 1 home game to play a home game in China.

Remember what Koch did?

Threatened Gold coast.

Wear your home colours and you won't be invited back.

Suck it up Koch.

 

[parano1a]

The insistence that VFL history is the AFL history ignores the reality that VFL history is no different to SANFL history or Tas, WA etc. in the national era.

It is objectively different given that the VFL/AFL is a single contiguous competition that has run every year from 1897 to present.

 

[parano1a]

Remember what Koch did?

Threatened Gold coast.

Wear your home colours and you won't be invited back.

This is a good point - on one hand Port can say Collingwood has no right to dictate what it wears.
On the other hand, in recent history Port have tried to dictate what two other clubs (Gold Coast and Adelaide) wear.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Bahaha yeah... I don't think Collingwood get to "allow" Port to wear teal stripes.

Having said that, it's clearly the best Port design aside from the white bars. Dunno why they never thought of it in the first place.

Not bad huh? Don't mind it

I'd run with that as a standard jumper and tell Collingwood to gagf

 

[melanChronic]

This is a good point - on one hand Port can say Collingwood has no right to dictate what it wears.
On the other hand, in recent history Port have tried to dictate what two other clubs (Gold Coast and Adelaide) wear.

It's not a good point.

In both cases you refer to, Port raised concerns about what the other club was wearing as they have a right to do. However, in both cases the governing body ultimately decided what was appropriate for the teams to wear.

In the case of the PBs, Collingwood don't just get to raise their concerns with the AFL, they get final veto say for eternity on what Port Adelaide get to wear. The AFL should make the decision but they don't and defer to Collingwood.

 

[jsdsgn]

It's not a good point.

In both cases you refer to, Port raised concerns about what the other club was wearing as they have a right to do. However, in both cases the governing body ultimately decided what was appropriate for the teams to wear.

In the case of the PBs, Collingwood don't just get to raise their concerns with the AFL, they get final veto say for eternity on what Port Adelaide get to wear. The AFL should make the decision but they don't and defer to Collingwood.

The reason it is that way is because of past agreements signed by all 3 parties. This is not a situation where people are sticking up for their mates, as much as you may wish it was.

 

[bomberclifford]

The reason it is that way is because of past agreements signed by all 3 parties

Let's talk about one of these agreements, the most recent one, in 2007, signed by all three parties.

Why was Collingwood prepared to agree to a 'once a year' wearing of the PB guernsey in 2007, but now baulk at it?
Is it because they only signed it because they were acting in bad faith?

 

[Kwality]

It is objectively different given that the VFL/AFL is a single contiguous competition that has run every year from 1897 to present.

Yeh, Freo won premierships in the 1890s. Port won its first flag in 1870.

Sure, 1897 is a typo, & either way when footy commenced is as much a part of footy & its connection to today, is a long journey.
Wanting (needing) it to the VFLs history is a stretch, see the VFLs infamous acceptance of indigenous football*

* Andy recalled it a redneck history & it was a big story in the 90s. Try googling it, no result, its been censored, unless you lived through it, you'd believe it never happened.

The history of Aussie Rules is much more than the VFL.

 

[Dazzler9]

Teal stripes lol

The generosity!

View attachment 1471120

That looks pretty good actually.

Better than no PBs.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Let's talk about one of these agreements, the most recent one, in 2007, signed by all three parties.

Why was Collingwood prepared to agree to a 'once a year' wearing of the PB guernsey in 2007, but now baulk at it?
Is it because they only signed it because they were acting in bad faith?

When Port entered the league, why did they agree to
relinquish the black and white stripes, but now baulk at it, is it they only agreed in bad faith, can they ever be trusted again?

 

[Dazzler9]

The PBs look more like baby gates to me.

 

[bomberclifford]

When Port entered the league, why did they agree to
relinquish the black and white stripes, but now baulk at it, is it they only agreed in bad faith, can they ever be trusted again?

That's not an answer to the question, but I'll humour you.

1. We're not asking to wear the guernsey as our home guernsey so we're not reneging on that original agreement. Our colours are black, white, silver and teal. That hasn't changed. Our home guernseys have always included teal. That hasn't changed. Our new logo incorporates teal. Our new AFLW team wears teal in both guernseys. We are abiding by that original agreement.

2. Last time I checked, 2007 is more recent than 1995, so it seems that Collingwood (via MacGuire) was willing to enter into a new agreement to allow us to wear the guernsey in a heritage context 12 years after that initial contract. That's all we are asking for now.

 

[Blackas87]

I agree with your general idea, but this doesn't hold as much weight as the fact that Port signing various agreements made it harder for themselves down the track to argue points like the one you have made.

Plus, the fact that other clubs joined in on the VFL sporadically means that, legally if anything, it does hold more weight than SANFL/TSL/WAFL etc, especially in this argument.

Port Adelaide were forced to sign agreements to enter the still Victorian centric league back in the 90’s.

We’ve grown up now haven’t we? Port Adelaide has a rich history in Australian Rules Football, I don’t see any reason they can’t wear the famous unique prison bar (wharf pylons of Port Adelaide) jumper in any game in the National competition that’s not away to Collingwood.

Geelong and Carlton have the same colours, denying Port Adelaide the jumper they want to wear just sounds petty.