Opinion The Collingwood Versus Port Adelaide Jumper Debate continues...

[LoungeLizard]

Port don't, shouldn't have too, and won't. That's all that matters here.

If a club like Essendon for example wants to bastardise their traditional guernsey every which way with a fat sash, red sash on grey, red sash on red, etc to give the impression and show supporters that they're somehow continuing to be be true to their heritage, then that's up to them.

The Essendon guernsey is black with a red sash.

The Port Adelaide heritage guernsey is black and white prison bars with the white number panel. If I was a Port supporter, the only teal I'd want to see on that guernsey is the teal on the Power logo. And that appears to be the consensus among Port supporters themselves.

Every club has changed their guernsey.

Port had no black and white originally.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What's wrong with the club minimising teal? The supporters hate it, it represents the compromise foisted upon the club in the 1990s (is there a more 90s colour?) when it was teal or oblivion. It also just looks plain garbage as anything other than a minimal tertiary colour.

Why would people want a club and its supporters to wear a colour that they don't want and haven't embraced? There is some weird perverted pleasure that Victorians get from seeing Port in teal that I just don't understand. Just let our club choose how they want to be represented.

Nothing’s wrong with it. Read my posts, I said good luck to them.

But it was obviously going to make Collingwood shitty and like it or not, Collingwood are part of your debate. Your president sent his request to wear the bars to the Collingwood president.

There’s no way Collingwood are going to agree to it when Port are clearly trying to inch away from teal and be black and white.

That’s just reality. Port have put the shits up Collingwood with their moving to black and white, so they’re not gonna agree to stuff now.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Every club has changed their guernsey.

Port had no black and white originally.

Port have had different guernseys.

Port's prison bars have always been black & white.

If the guernsey is not black & white, it won't be prison bars. Hence why they have never adopted prison bars with teal in the AFL.

 

[Pappagallo]

I actually think the teal looks awesome; Port have designed some excellent jumpers over the years. No, this is not a sarcastic comment. But I understand if the fans dont like the teal.

Funnily enough, if we were able to wear the Prison Bars in their original form on occasion there would be much less resistance to teal. But instead of just being an aesthetic issue (which is in the eye of the beholder) it’s become a symbol of submission and compromise for many of our supporters and therefore hated with a passion.

You want more teal? Vote 1 for the Prison Bars and you’ll probably get it.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Funnily enough, if we were able to wear the Prison Bars in their original form on occasion there would be much less resistance to teal. But instead of just being an aesthetic issue (which is in the eye of the beholder) it’s become a symbol of submission and compromise for many of our supporters and therefore hated with a passion.

You want more teal? Vote 1 for the Prison Bars and you’ll probably get it.

Yep, teal is, as it stands, a constant reminder that we're not allowed to celebrate our heritage like every other club is. Black and white stuff sells like hotcakes at the merch store while teal dominated stuff ends up on the clearance rack.

It's no different to opposition supporters constantly telling us that we should look at other guernseys we wore in the 1800s and wear them to celebrate our heritage instead.

Those people span the full spectrum from well meaning but ill informed to full blown trolls, but regardless, no thanks. We have a very famous, very distinct in design guernsey that has been the key visual representation of our club for 120 odd years and that we've been almost unbelievably successful in. It hasn't ever had teal and if you add teal, it's no longer our famous guernsey, it's a fauxback.

 

[bomberclifford]

No black and white stripes.
Uses two of our four colours and our monogram.

 

[jsdsgn]

No black and white stripes.
Uses two of our four colours and our monogram.


View attachment 1471995

Think it looks great. Would the majority Port fans agree?

 

[mcgarnacle]

Twist in Port’s prison bar jumper debate as Pies make bizarre offer

Collingwood makes strange concession to Port in the lingering jumper feud, according to reports

7news.com.au

I never knew the prison bar design was an issue as well. Does Collingwood own every version of stripes too? Port Adelaide Football Club and its supporters should thank Collingwood for its generosity.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

No black and white stripes.
Uses two of our four colours and our monogram.


View attachment 1471995

Reverse that to be white/light grey and a light/mid-grey - or even a light teal - and that is a sexy AF kit combo

 

[parano1a]

In what way?

If and when the AFL holds Heritage Round, Collingwood permit the original prison bar jumper to be worn. Collingwood even had the goodwill to let it be worn in 2020 for Port's 150th anniversary game above and beyond the agreement. Every year Port demand more and more. Wait until the AFL reinstate Heritage Round be it in 2023, 2030 or 2050.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Think it looks great. Would the majority Port fans agree?

I think if we'd been allowed to enter the league like this, we'd still be wearing it today, but we tried just adding silver and got knocked back.

But after all the water under the bridge and the very frustrating lack of respect for our history from the AFL, I think a lot of Port supporters would want the original bars or nothing at this point.

The decision by the AFL in 1996 is bizarre to me. Why let a famous old club into the league but force them to abandon their entire visual identity built up over 120+ years? Why did they not just admit another composite side? Surely you're bringing Port in BECAUSE of our history?

It would be like the EPL finally letting Celtic and Rangers in but making them change their colours and change their names to Glasgow United and Glasgow City.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Twist in Port’s prison bar jumper debate as Pies make bizarre offer

Collingwood makes strange concession to Port in the lingering jumper feud, according to reports

7news.com.au

I never knew the prison bar design was an issue as well. Does Collingwood own every version of stripes too? Port Adelaide Football Club and its supporters should thank Collingwood for its generosity.

That article said the clubs are going to have a chat, I thought Collingwood didn't have a say in it.

I wonder if Koch thinks he may have the upper hand now Ed isn't there?

Likes to tell other clubs what to wear, let's see how he goes.

 

[bomberclifford]

Think it looks great. Would the majority Port fans agree?

I don't think it's the Port supporters that are the problem.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If and when the AFL holds Heritage Round, Collingwood permit the original prison bar jumper to be worn. Collingwood even had the goodwill to let it be worn in 2020 for Port's 150th anniversary game above and beyond the agreement. Every year Port demand more and more. Wait until the AFL reinstate Heritage Round be it in 2023, 2030 or 2050.

Collingwood knew before the agreement was signed that Heritage round was being scrapped, the entire agreement was signed in demonstrably bad faith and as such isn't worth the paper it was printed on.

You'd also have a very difficult time explaining legally why Collingwood were a party to the agreement. They don't decide what guernsey we can wear, it's purely at the discretion of the AFL.

 

[bomberclifford]

If and when the AFL holds Heritage Round, Collingwood permit the original prison bar jumper to be worn. Collingwood even had the goodwill to let it be worn in 2020 for Port's 150th anniversary game above and beyond the agreement. Every year Port demand more and more. Wait until the AFL reinstate Heritage Round be it in 2023, 2030 or 2050.

You must be a politician.

 

[Pappagallo]

Yep, teal is, as it stands, a constant reminder that we're not allowed to celebrate our heritage like every other club is. Black and white stuff sells like hotcakes at the merch store while teal dominated stuff ends up on the clearance rack.

It's no different to opposition supporters constantly telling us that we should look at other guernseys we wore in the 1800s and wear them to celebrate our heritage instead.

Those people span the full spectrum from well meaning but ill informed to full blown trolls, but regardless, no thanks. We have a very famous, very distinct in design guernsey that has been the key visual representation of our club for 120 odd years and that we've been almost unbelievably successful in. It hasn't ever had teal and if you add teal, it's no longer our famous guernsey, it's a fauxback.

Yeah we should celebrate our heritage by wearing that pink guernsey we wore for 5 seasons in the 1800s that nobody alive today and possibly even their ancestors has seen in the flesh. The cultural resonance would be epic!

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yeah we should celebrate our heritage by wearing that pink guernsey we wore for 5 seasons in the 1800s that nobody alive today and possibly even their ancestors has seen in the flesh. The cultural resonance would be epic!

Are you trying to say that your heritage should only include what everybody has seen?

So only modern heritage then?

How about black, white, teal and silver?

 

[parano1a]

Collingwood knew before the agreement was signed that Heritage round was being scrapped, the entire agreement was signed in demonstrably bad faith and as such isn't worth the paper it was printed on.

How would Collingwood possibly know this? The AFL determines the competition fixture along with any designated theme rounds. Nothing in the agreement indicated Heritage Round would continue on an annual basis, the AFL may decide to hold it once every 10 or 20 years; the agreement still stands.

 

[El_Scorcho]

How would Collingwood possibly know this? The AFL determines the competition fixture along with any designated theme rounds. Nothing in the agreement indicated Heritage Round would continue on an annual basis, the AFL may decide to hold it once every 10 or 20 years; the agreement still stands.

Eddie said it outright on footy classified that Collingwood knew. Which means the AFL and Collingwood entered into that agreement in bad faith.

It's all academic anyway, because even if there was an iron clad agreement, the AFL could rule it out of existence with the stroke of a pen and Collingwood couldn't do anything about it.

 

[parano1a]

But after all the water under the bridge and the very frustrating lack of respect for our history from the AFL, I think a lot of Port supporters would want the original bars or nothing at this point.

Isn't your SANFL team representative of the club's history? They wear the prison bar strip every week.
Celebrate your SANFL history in the SANFL and your AFL history in the AFL.

 

[Suspense]

This feels at least a slightly coherent argument, but where do you see the lack of "distinctiveness" hurting the AFL? People can tell two teams with similar guernseys apart, they've done it for years in other comps, hell, they do it in this league. It's not a fashion brand so people won't just flip from buying a Collingwood top one week to a Port one the next. What is the real world value of "maintaining the value of the IP"?

It's not about the fashion/visual aesthetic itself - no one is wearing black and white stripes because 'they are so hot right now'. It is what the distinctive colors and designs represent - tribal association within a competition. The distinctiveness and value of the IP is diluted if you have two teams with a similar uniform playing in the same competition.

An extreme example but demonstrates the point - suppose that the AFL announced - from now on, all home teams play in plain white and all away teams play in plain red. The games would play out just the same, however, such a move would destroy the value in the AFL's IP - as there would no longer any distinctive differences between each of the different clubs and that visual tribal association would no longer exist.

Besides, the most valuable IP in most metrics to the AFL is West Coast.
This is West Coast's Guernsey:
View attachment 1471663
And here is an approved by the AFL Gold Coast Guernsey (a team that, mind you, wears the same colours as an existing team in the Crows and very similar to their own cross thrown rivals in which they compete for marketshare):
View attachment 1471665View attachment 1471664
Did we hear anything about this from West Coast? No. Did the AFL defer the decision to West Coast? No.

That's the Suns away strip and it has distinctive colours from WCE home strip.

It's never been an AFL issue, it's never been a distinctiveness of the IP issue, it's always been a board / President of Collingwood acting like spoilt toddler "issue".

Probably true - just saying that your proposed 'business case' doesn't stack up when you consider the basics of IP value retention.

 

[parano1a]

Eddie said it outright on footy classified that Collingwood knew. Which means the AFL and Collingwood entered into that agreement in bad faith.

The agreement never stipulated that Heritage Round would continue to be held on an annual basis, so how is the agreement in bad faith?
If the AFL wanted to change the frequency of Heritage Round from annual to it being held every 20 years, how does this make the agreement null and void?

 

[bomberclifford]

The distinctiveness and value of the IP is diluted if you have two teams with a similar uniform playing within the same competition.

This is demonstrably false.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Are you trying to say that your heritage should only include what everybody has seen?

So only modern heritage then?

How about black, white, teal and silver?

That's a pretty bad gotcha given members of Gen Z would have attended games in 1996.

 

[parano1a]

This is demonstrably false.

Here come the irrelevant soccer comparisons. We all know Newcastle United, Juventus and Udinese all wear black and white vertical stripes. This is great news for Port as you can wear the prison bar strip if you enter a team in the Premier League or Serie A.

Guess what? The AFL places a greater value on the identity of its clubs than all of those soccer leagues.