Politics The coming war with China - John Pilger

[VineyIsLORD]

You seem, um, perhaps under the influence right now?

Chinas government is terrible imo. But this thread is about the USA's approach to China not a comparison of which sucks more.

 

[Run n Spread]

You are very ignorant of history if you think the US hasnt used force to hold large parts of the world to ransom since WW2.

I cant think of many that they genuinely liberated but I can name a great many countries that they have oppressed violently.

The answer is clear: China would most likely be the less intrusive and less violent power.

Yeah Nah. Don't trust China. All though I certainly don't trust the US.

Why not Australia? If we grow some stones we could literally run the world if we wanted? Or preferably live and let live but protect and run ourselves and tell any major power to stick it. Maybe then we'd all have somewhere to live.

 

[Run n Spread]

You seem, um, perhaps under the influence right now?

Chinas government is terrible imo. But this thread is about the USA's approach to China not a comparison of which sucks more.

Don't deflect.

The US approach to China and anyone is intrusive. But Trump however hypocritical is at least pulling back.

Seems to me the world criticises the US at the drop of a hat but when they go isolationist for real suddenly s**t themselves.

IMO they are both foreign countries with very different cultures. (I would trust neither). Some of it good some horrendous. Yet we are our own country with very very real problems. We need to sort our s**t out right now.

As to the thread. I find Pilger's approach confrontational. He raises good points but when he actually manages to get a good source or infiltrates seems to inflame rather than inform.

Question for you thou? Should we actually build our own nukes therefore kicking the US out of Pine Gap and Australia for good and sending the message to China to chill?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Youre a bit over the shop at the moment lets chat about it in the morning

 

[Power Raid]

India is gearing up for a war. I don't believe they will be ready in time but the next 18 months will be telling.

 

[Run n Spread]

India is gearing up for a war. I don't believe they will be ready in time but the next 18 months will be telling.

In what sense? Gearing up to promote dormant industry or a collective itchy trigger finger. Only takes one to go outside and it is game on.

In the West at least I don't think there is an appetite for traditional War. After all that is traditionally the sphere of citizen vs citizen. I could see hot spots and uprisings definitely occurring and tribal/class based conflicts.. Borders are wide open now anyway so the fight for resources ultimately comes down to groups as opposed to borders now.

 

[Power Raid]

In what sense? Gearing up to promote dormant industry or a collective itchy trigger finger. Only takes one to go outside and it is game on.

In the West at least I don't think there is an appetite for traditional War. After all that is traditionally the sphere of citizen vs citizen. I could see hot spots and uprisings definitely occurring and tribal/class based conflicts.. Borders are wide open now anyway so the fight for resources ultimately comes down to groups as opposed to borders now.

The rise of China is worrying them.

China has moved into the lands in the north and plans for the world's largest navy base in Sri Lanka. The response by India's govt though, may actually help the people of India.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

The rise of China is worrying them.

China has moved into the lands in the north and plans for the world's largest navy base in Sri Lanka. The response by India's govt though, may actually help the people of India.

India are in a s**t spot.

They have lost a war to China in recent memory, and no love lost there.

Meanwhile China has strong relationships with Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.

Most countries would leverage a relationship with the US in that situation, but due to security reasons the US is actually closer to Pakistan than it is to India in a lot of ways. So India really is alone in a lot of ways. Luckily there's like a billion Indians.

 

[Power Raid]

India are in a s**t spot.

They have lost a war to China in recent memory, and no love lost there.

Meanwhile China has strong relationships with Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Pakistan.

Most countries would leverage a relationship with the US in that situation, but due to security reasons the US is actually closer to Pakistan than it is to India in a lot of ways. So India really is alone in a lot of ways. Luckily there's like a billion Indians.

My comment to the Indian officials was "if I were a betting man, I'd still put my money on China"

they laughed and acknowledged the fact. Perhaps this is the turning point for India, where industrialisation and progress may take precedent over corruption.

It is worth noting Russia would back India which evens up the playing field but increases the stakes

 

[VineyIsLORD]

My comment to the Indian officials was "if I were a betting man, I'd still put my money on China"

they laughed and acknowledged the fact. Perhaps this is the turning point for India, where industrialisation and progress may take precedent over corruption.

It is worth noting Russia would back India which evens up the playing field but increases the stakes

Yeah hopefully it absolutely never comes to that as there would be 5 nuclear armed countries involved. Iran unlikely to stay put either, would probably cause Pakistan some issues.

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah hopefully it absolutely never comes to that as there would be 5 nuclear armed countries involved. Iran unlikely to stay put either, would probably cause Pakistan some issues.

a war like that would change every life on the planet

 

[QuietB]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...r-up-free-trade-agreement-20170209-gu9kb9.htm

Gotta love China. Trump disses Turnbull/Australia. Nekminnit Bishop is getting kisses on both cheeks by China's foreign affairs minister.

USA might be fighting this war on their own.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...r-up-free-trade-agreement-20170209-gu9kb9.htm

Gotta love China. Trump disses Turnbull/Australia. Nekminnit Bishop is getting kisses on both cheeks by China's foreign affairs minister.

USA might be fighting this war on their own.

Well if Australia and Philippines blink i cant see where the yanks would launch an attack from because Japan and Korea would be ******* dust as soon as it started.

The art of the deal indeed.

 

[Power Raid]

Well if Australia and Philippines blink i cant see where the yanks would launch an attack from because Japan and Korea would be ******* dust as soon as it started.

The art of the deal indeed.

I'm thinking Trump and China will get on better than Clinton (and any other previous US president) as he is a businessman. Chinese politicians are a different breed of poli than in democratic nations.

Trump will understand saving face, a deal is a deal and confident enough to know what is done behind closed doors remains behind closed doors.

I will add the guy is a buffoon and the Chinese will know exactly how to handle him and stroke his ego.

The big risk is how far China pushes under Trump's term and what the next president thinks/ acts.

 

[Wizard17]

Russia expansionism in Eastern Europe & Chinese militarization in the South China Sea are the most concerning things at the moment. Both seem to be preparing for an aggressive expansion in those regions.

The whole world is starting to rearm in preparation for an aggressive move from one or both of them.

 

[Mofra]

Russia expansionism in Eastern Europe & Chinese militarization in the South China Sea are the most concerning things at the moment. Both seem to be preparing for an aggressive expansion in those regions.

To be fair, Russian "expansionism" in Eastern Europe is a return to Soviet era buffer-state strategy rather than a new paradigm.
Chinese militarization is almost entirely economic - they want the EEZ more than they want confrontation.

 

[Mofra]

Most countries would leverage a relationship with the US in that situation, but due to security reasons the US is actually closer to Pakistan than it is to India in a lot of ways. So India really is alone in a lot of ways. Luckily there's like a billion Indians.

Lucky India has the world's greatest land obstacle on their border between them and China, even "German Maginot Line" tactics (ie flatten Bangladesh, reducing the value of the country by dozens of dollars) are a stretch.

 

[Wizard17]

To be fair, Russian "expansionism" in Eastern Europe is a return to Soviet era buffer-state strategy rather than a new paradigm.
Chinese militarization is almost entirely economic - they want the EEZ more than they want confrontation.

Yeah I don't think China want more than just the resources that lie in the sea. A war would be the last thing that they want at the moment.

Russia is actually a lot more concerning but a lot of what they are doing is for Putin and his supporters to use propaganda to promote their image rather than warmongering but I trust them about as much I can throw them right now, especially with what they have been doing over the last few years.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Russia is actually a lot more concerning but a lot of what they are doing is for Putin and his supporters to use propaganda to promote their image rather than warmongering but I trust them about as much I can throw them right now, especially with what they have been doing over the last few years.

I take it that you've missed what the U.S govt has been doing in the Middle East these past 16 years.

 

[Wizard17]

I take it that you've missed what the U.S govt has been doing in the Middle East these past 16 years.

No I haven't. Guerilla warfare in the deserts of the Middle East doesn't concern me as much. What concerns me is ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban etc don't have sheer military capability like some of the Allies of these countries that Russia is bullying in the Baltic do...

If anything happens in Eastern Europe it will be 1,000,000 times as worse as anything that has happened in the Middle East that is what is concerning.

Anyway this is getting off topic.

 

[Procrastinator35]

No I haven't. Guerilla warfare in the deserts of the Middle East doesn't concern me as much. What concerns me is ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Taliban etc don't have sheer military capability like some of the Allies of these countries that Russia is bullying in the Baltic do...

If anything happens in Eastern Europe it will be 1,000,000 times as worse as anything that has happened in the Middle East that is what is concerning.

Who has been arming, training & financing ISIS, ISIL, Al Qaeda & the Taliban?

 

[Wizard17]

Who has been arming, training & financing ISIS, ISIL, Al Qaeda & the Taliban?

All three global superpowers are arming them (seriously nearly 99% of their armaments come from China, America and Russia in pretty equal portions) so you'd imagine that all three would have financial support coming out of somewhere. We all know that it would be rather simple to get training from America and her allies if you hid in one of the regular army units from the ME countries which they train.

All three have their hand in the cookie jar and would be profiting from it. That is how Global Superpowers work mate. Don't trust any of them.

 

[Procrastinator35]

All three global superpowers are arming them (seriously nearly 99% of their armaments come from China, America and Russia in pretty equal portions) so you'd imagine that all three would have financial support coming out of somewhere. We all know that it would be rather simple to get training from America and her allies if you hid in one of the regular army units from the ME countries which they train.

All three have their hand in the cookie jar and would be profiting from it. That is how Global Superpowers work mate. Don't trust any of them.

Well I agree with you on one point....Most ground wars now are proxy fought wars....Get/pay the saps to do the dirty work for you.

Naked, open aggression, by the actual primary protagonists, is no longer kosher....Obfuscation & media propaganda, the front-line tools of war.

NATO & The U.S are supposed to be the 'good-guys' fighting for freedom & Democracy....There are too many posters in here who excuse their barbarism.

 

[Wizard17]

NATO & The U.S are supposed to be the 'good-guys' fighting for freedom & Democracy....There are too many posters in here who excuse their barbarism.

I'm not making any excuses for any of the Big 3 especially America and their warmongering.

I'm more concerned about Russia starting a global war out of the Big 3 that's all.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'm not making any excuses for any of the Big 3 especially America and their warmongering.

I'm more concerned about Russia starting a global war out of the Big 3 that's all.

Russia isn't currently encircling the U.S with war-heads m8.

Forget the rhetoric, just look at any map for the facts about who is intimidating who.

Only 1 country has a history of using nukes....and it aint Russia.