The Crowd Thread

[giantroo]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Our OP seems to forget the 08 season too easily.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tg-essendon-bombers?year=2008

 

[Demonheart]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Young, developing team gets beaten by a top 4 team, stop the press!!

 

[Roos4eva]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Where is this young talent I hear so much about ?

Ziebell gets a lot of good PR but he is miles behind guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis who were all drafted after him.
Hansen looks undersized (height wise) to be a KPP. Developing into a poor mans Chad Cornes.
Cunnington needs a lot more time. 13 possessions at 31% today is horrible. Should not be playing at AFL level at the moment.

They lack gorillas in the key defensive posts. Thompson tries hard but he should be on the 3rd best forward. Not the best forward.
Hale is hit and miss up forward as is Edwards when he plays. Hard to expect Petrie to do much this year after missing a good chunk of the year.

They don't have a player I would classify as dynamic. They''ve drafted too many inside midfielders in my opinion and need outside runners that can break lines desperately.

Season has gone to shite and the scary thing is I cant see much on the horizon either.

Agree with some of this post, but Hansen is 197cm and has been one of our most improved players this season.

Happy with where he's heading.

 

[Macca18]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Young, developing team gets beaten by a top 4 team, stop the press!!

It's not the problem of being defeated, I doubt anybody (except North supporters) expected great things from them this year and a number of the games they were expected to lose anyway... but it's the uninspiring way that North are surrendering when they lose...

Even under Laidley (except for their finals appearances) they were generally always competitive in losing, and especially against the top sides, even with the clear lack of talent.

It's only 10 weeks into Scott's reign as coach and a previous poster made a fair comparison with the run Essendon had in 2008, but some of the coaching decisions (bringing back a potentially underdone Petrie, Hale & McIntosh for a game at Subiaco?) and the lack of genuine heart in the contest is a definate cause for concern.

 

[footyman]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

It's a good question and worth asking, but this thread will turn into what every thread about North turns into.

Red Cards being handed out everywhere?

They've probably tried to 'hang on' a bit too long under Laidley which is now costing them.

They need to be active in the trade period I feel, try and offload what they have an excess supply of (ie. ruckmen), and keep getting talented youth into the joint. I think they are on the right track in that area with the likes of Ziebell and Cunnington. Macmillan will be a player down the track after having seen him in the VFL.

 

[dave_27]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Where is this young talent I hear so much about ?

Ziebell gets a lot of good PR but he is miles behind guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis who were all drafted after him.
Hansen looks undersized (height wise) to be a KPP. Developing into a poor mans Chad Cornes.
Cunnington needs a lot more time. 13 possessions at 31% today is horrible. Should not be playing at AFL level at the moment.

They lack gorillas in the key defensive posts. Thompson tries hard but he should be on the 3rd best forward. Not the best forward.
Hale is hit and miss up forward as is Edwards when he plays. Hard to expect Petrie to do much this year after missing a good chunk of the year.

They don't have a player I would classify as dynamic. They''ve drafted too many inside midfielders in my opinion and need outside runners that can break lines desperately.

Season has gone to shite and the scary thing is I cant see much on the horizon either.

Well said.

North supporters seem to like telling all and sundry they have the best young midfielders in the comp, I dont see it.

Anthony and Swallow arent even kids, they are 23 years old this year and butcher the ball.

 

[The Zebra]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Where is this young talent I hear so much about ?

Ziebell gets a lot of good PR but he is miles behind guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis who were all drafted after him.

Zaharakis?

Ziebell and Bastinac are playing proper midfield while Zaharakis hangs out on a HFF.

Both stood up today in a team that got smashed.

Both will spend their careers miles ahead of Zaharakis.

 

[Pykie]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Where is this young talent I hear so much about ?

Ziebell gets a lot of good PR but he is miles behind guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis who were all drafted after him.
Hansen looks undersized (height wise) to be a KPP. Developing into a poor mans Chad Cornes.
Cunnington needs a lot more time. 13 possessions at 31% today is horrible. Should not be playing at AFL level at the moment.

- You're delusional, Ziebell is/will be an absolute jet. Was one of our best today, and is averaging good numbers in his second year, basically as one of the lead midfielders at the club.

Had multple surgeries over the summer, and no pre-season, so he didn't have a great opportunity to work on his tank, he's not a natural runner, so it is going to take him 2-3 years to get upto the rquired fitness to run out games.

Its a fact of life, happens with alot of players.

Chuck him into a midfield second fiddle to Pendlebury, Swan, Johnson, O'Bree, Ball and Didak and im sure he would up his numbers by the measly 3 possessions per game he is off Beams at the moment.

And Zaharakis?

Ziebell is playing as a bloody centreman, not hiding on a half forward flank.

He is averaging over 6 tackles a game, more than 60% of his possessions are contested, and he averages over 4 clearances a game.


Its the bloody equivalent of me saying "Melkshem is miles behind Bastinac, he averages 5 less disposals a game"




-Hansen is 6"6, tiny.

 

[mattah]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

To be fair to North they weren't too bad for three of the four quarters today. They weren't on top of those three either, but they weren't too far behind, Freo just blew them away in the 3rd.

As someone else said, they did seem to lack a bit of energy; seemed to get beaten a lot in one on ones and didn't have the intensity required at the contested ball. I thought their skills weren't too bad though considering they got beaten by 10 goals.

 

[Scham]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

I dunno, they seem to have gone backwards big time! They're a rabble.

I really wonder about the decisions to not go to GC and to get rid of Laidley.

From an outsider over the other side of the country looking in, it just baffles me why they'd get rid of a bloke doing a fantastic job only to repace him with an untried inexperienced coach??? The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so how's it tasting Bradshaw? OK so you saved a few quid on salary but hey...?

They'll get another 10 goal flogging this week too.

 

[Scham]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

To be fair to North they weren't too bad for three of the four quarters today. They weren't on top of those three either, but they weren't too far behind, Freo just blew them away in the 3rd.

As someone else said, they did seem to lack a bit of energy; seemed to get beaten a lot in one on ones and didn't have the intensity required at the contested ball. I thought their skills weren't too bad though considering they got beaten by 10 goals.

The commentators on ABC reckon they were the worst team to visit Subi this year including Richmond. It's hard to defend that when you actually stop and think about it.

Freo were far from switched on today and had key players missing and still won by 10 goals. I like your compassion though.

 

[The_Ru]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

It's not the problem of being defeated, I doubt anybody (except North supporters) expected great things from them this year and a number of the games they were expected to lose anyway... but it's the uninspiring way that North are surrendering when they lose...

Even under Laidley (except for their finals appearances) they were generally always competitive in losing, and especially against the top sides, even with the clear lack of talent.

It's only 10 weeks into Scott's reign as coach and a previous poster made a fair comparison with the run Essendon had in 2008, but some of the coaching decisions (bringing back a potentially underdone Petrie, Hale & McIntosh for a game at Subiaco?) and the lack of genuine heart in the contest is a definate cause for concern.

Almost as silly as playing no ruckman in a final?

Scott hasn't had long enough for me to pass judgement on his coaching yet. Knights has, he's rubbish. Essendon will go nowhere with him as coach.

As for the OP, Fremantle beat Geelong at Subi a few weeks back, I'd say they probably go alright there. The nature of young sides is that the gap between their best and worse can be huge (or are you Essendon fans unable to remember 18 months ago?). We have some genuinely average strugglers in our older brigade but our young blokes look pretty handy.

The thing that really winds me up though is the assumption that the club is somehow in crisis because a young side gets beaten by superior teams. Where are your posts on West Coast, Richmond, Adelaide and Port?

 

[mattah]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The commentators on ABC reckon they were the worst team to visit Subi this year including Richmond. It's hard to defend that when you actually stop and think about it.

Freo were far from switched on today and had key players missing and still won by 10 goals. I like your compassion though.

Don't get me wrong, I think they were pretty bad, especially in the third quarter, but I think it was more down to being unable to get the ball, rather than what they did when they got the ball.

If we take out the third quarter, the Kangaroos would have been beaten by about 3 goals. They won the final quarter (junk time though), broke even in the second, and were slow out of the blocks in the first quarter.

I thought Ziebell, Bastinac, and obviously Thomas showed something for North tonight, there was just no supporting cast.

 

[gimmegimme]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The thing that really winds me up though is the assumption that the club is somehow in crisis because a young side gets beaten by superior teams. Where are your posts on West Coast, Richmond, Adelaide and Port?

i like your use of the word young and in summary is the reason you lost today = when they get older you will win more?

but what do the young guys from other teams have to look forward to that are putting in winning efforts and getting the results at the moment???

or is it just how good you are not how old.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

They''ve drafted too many inside midfielders in my opinion and need outside runners that can break lines desperately.

You mean players like Anthony (injured), Adams (injured), Ross (injured) Wells (injured) Urquhart (injured)

These are the guys who have played AFL. Not including Speight, Macmillan

Yeah I think we need more of this type. Maybe we can be like Essendon.

 

[Daytripper]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

- You're delusional, Ziebell is/will be an absolute jet. Was one of our best today, and is averaging good numbers in his second year, basically as one of the lead midfielders at the club.

Had multple surgeries over the summer, and no pre-season, so he didn't have a great opportunity to work on his tank, he's not a natural runner, so it is going to take him 2-3 years to get upto the rquired fitness to run out games.

Its a fact of life, happens with alot of players.

Chuck him into a midfield second fiddle to Pendlebury, Swan, Johnson, O'Bree, Ball and Didak and im sure he would up his numbers by the measly 3 possessions per game he is off Beams at the moment.

And Zaharakis?

Ziebell is playing as a bloody centreman, not hiding on a half forward flank.

He is averaging over 6 tackles a game, more than 60% of his possessions are contested, and he averages over 4 clearances a game.


Its the bloody equivalent of me saying "Melkshem is miles behind Bastinac, he averages 5 less disposals a game"




-Hansen is 6"6, tiny.

Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis hurt teams.
Ziebell doesn't.

I understand he has had some injuries but as I said he gets a lot of good PR (next Nth captain etc etc) but so far he hasn't done a hell of a lot as far as impacting and turning games.

Fair enough point about Hansen. Didn't realise he was 6'6. Maybe its because he plays 'smaller' if that makes sense in that he isn't using his height to impose himself on games yet.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

The commentators on ABC reckon they were the worst team to visit Subi this year including Richmond. It's hard to defend that when you actually stop and think about it.

Freo were far from switched on today and had key players missing and still won by 10 goals. I like your compassion though.

arrogance in its purest form if you werent switched on and won by ten goals? how the **** will you play when you are switched on????

seems like the whole afl should watch out for the god-like freo

 

[Daytripper]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

You mean players like Anthony (injured), Adams (injured), Ross (injured) Wells (injured) Urquhart (injured)

These are the guys who have played AFL. Not including Speight, Macmillan

Yeah I think we need more of this type. Maybe we can be like Essendon.

Don't know if I would call Anthony an outside player. Wells has had some sort of an excuse every year he has played in the system (gets a bit meh after a while), Adams looks reasonable but again I query whether he is an outside player whilst all the others are fringe players and probably aren't best 22 anyway.

 

[Smyth94]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Beams, Sidebottom and Zaharakis hurt teams.
Ziebell doesn't.

I understand he has had some injuries but as I said he gets a lot of good PR (next Nth captain etc etc) but so far he hasn't done a hell of a lot as far as impacting and turning games.

Fair enough point about Hansen. Didn't realise he was 6'6. Maybe its because he plays 'smaller' if that makes sense in that he isn't using his height to impose himself on games yet.

Sorry 'Tripper that doesn't wash with me.

Beams and Sidebottom are two fantastic young players but I bet Ziebell would relish the opportunity to get on the end of a Collingwood turnover goal.

Collingwood are the best team at creating goals from turnovers - Beams and Sidebottom have been on the end of some fantastic work of Thomas, Pendlebury, Swan et al - Not that they haven't created opportunities themselves, or dished off to other players but they're practically flankers IMO.

Ziebell, along with Andrew Swallow, are practically North's engine room.

 

[Jono B]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

- You're delusional, Ziebell is/will be an absolute jet. Was one of our best today, and is averaging good numbers in his second year, basically as one of the lead midfielders at the club.

Had multple surgeries over the summer, and no pre-season, so he didn't have a great opportunity to work on his tank, he's not a natural runner, so it is going to take him 2-3 years to get upto the rquired fitness to run out games.

Its a fact of life, happens with alot of players.

Chuck him into a midfield second fiddle to Pendlebury, Swan, Johnson, O'Bree, Ball and Didak and im sure he would up his numbers by the measly 3 possessions per game he is off Beams at the moment.

And Zaharakis?

Ziebell is playing as a bloody centreman, not hiding on a half forward flank.

He is averaging over 6 tackles a game, more than 60% of his possessions are contested, and he averages over 4 clearances a game.


Its the bloody equivalent of me saying "Melkshem is miles behind Bastinac, he averages 5 less disposals a game"




-Hansen is 6"6, tiny.

16 touches a game is hardly good numbers, the sort of stats he has been getting are similar to what Sam Lonergan have been getting, who is getting critisised for not getting the numbers required for playing in the midfield.

I know Beams and Zaharakis play HFF but this does not mean that they should pick up more numbers, in fact the opposite is true.

The fact is that North is playing a very young team, but so is most of the competition. The North team that played on the weekend were not significantly younger than Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, West Coast and Fremantle. North are a fair way behind most of these teams.

 

[Smyth94]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Zaharakis?

Ziebell and Bastinac are playing proper midfield while Zaharakis hangs out on a HFF.

Both stood up today in a team that got smashed.

Both will spend their careers miles ahead of Zaharakis.

Zaharakis doesn't "hang around" HFF - he's a medium forward who's one of the better contested marks for his size. I don't know why he was being compared to Ziebell, two completely different players.

 

[The_Ru]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

i like your use of the word young and in summary is the reason you lost today = when they get older you will win more?

but what do the young guys from other teams have to look forward to that are putting in winning efforts and getting the results at the moment???

or is it just how good you are not how old.

Which teams are you referring to? Richmond? West Coast? Melbourne? They've all won the same or less games than us.

 

[Smyth94]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

16 touches a game is hardly good numbers, the sort of stats he has been getting are similar to what Sam Lonergan have been getting, who is getting critisised for not getting the numbers required for playing in the midfield.

I know Beams and Zaharakis play HFF but this does not mean that they should pick up more numbers, in fact the opposite is true.

The fact is that North is playing a very young team, but so is most of the competition. The North team that played on the weekend were not significantly younger than Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, West Coast and Fremantle. North are a fair way behind most of these teams.

North's problem is Essendon's problem a few years ago - there's a big hole in the 23-28 y.o age group, they've got an exciting crop of kids around the 18-22 y.o bracket and then some established guns > 27 y.o and not much in between.

Look at NM's starting midfield - Swallow, Ziebell, Bastinac, Cunnington, Harvey, McIntosh - that's one player (excluding the ruck) who's over 25. They have a dazzingly low amount of games played, which is the more relevant statistic

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Young side playing the best interstate team at present over there. Scott has been excellent in putting faith in his young midfield group and they should return the favour. Just for the record howd that young Essendon side go against Adelaide in the final last year?

What this bloke says.

Also, good to see that Bay13 style trolls against North are flourishing on the main board.

All is well on the good ship BF.

EDIT: Ye Gods, judging by the jumbled context of the thread it appears the mods ahve removed some crappy GC type trolls. Hallelujah.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: So... what's wrong at Arden Street?

Looking back at it we were not actually that bad against Freo at Etihad. Good team they are. North are bad, like Melbourne last year.

Except we've already won four games. And we'll beat you.