List Mgmt. Morning, Joe! (was The Daniher (Probably Mega-)thread)

[60sbomber]

A deal with a heavy incentive is appropriate for a player with an average of 5 games a season over three years - Its hedging. Yes we want him, but we need him healthy. If he can't make it back we have invested and lost money, but not sold the farm. If he makes it back, he earns an appropriate amount of money.

If he can't make it back (and he has already demonstrated he can), you will be up for 5yrs x $600k (reportedly) under the current offer, which gets only band 1 compo.
Why not offer him 3 x $700k, with 2 more yrs based on games played? If he breaks down, the cost is $900k less for Brisbane.
Brisbane gets him for free trade wise, is no worse off salary cap wise (swap $100k of incentives to base), Essendon won't match if it gets rd1 compo.
Deal done, everyone fine.
And please don't tell me Daniher won't be happy because he wants 5yrs of guaranteed money. He has just had 3yrs of big money hardly taking the field. He couldn't possibly be upset with a guarantee of "just" 3 more.

 

[60sbomber]

Tell us more how we get Daniher “free” by paying him more money.

Don’t actually though. It’s an utterly asinine economic argument.

See post above. It's pretty easy. If he breaks down you save money. If he plays you pay the same.

 

[Dalions]

If he can't make it back (and he has already demonstrated he can), you will be up for 5yrs x $600k (reportedly) under the current offer, which gets only band 1 compo.
Why not offer him 3 x $700k, with 2 more yrs based on games played? If he breaks down, the cost is $900k less for Brisbane.
Brisbane gets him for free trade wise, is no worse off salary cap wise (swap $100k of incentives to base), Essendon won't match if it gets rd1 compo.
Deal done, everyone fine.
And please don't tell me Daniher won't be happy because he wants 5yrs of guaranteed money. He has just had 3yrs of big money hardly taking the field. He couldn't possibly be upset with a guarantee of "just" 3 more.

Heard it all before.

 

[chopperduck]

It's easy.. except we don't want to pay him 700k a year over 3 years, nor do we have to pay a player extra money so you get a better pick.

Again, if the bombers wanted to get fair compensation for losing him they should have traded him to Swans last year. You lot have already rolled the dice and lost. Stop asking us to give you a do over.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

He is definitely a once in a lifetime opportunity. For Brisbane.

Not really, we had a similar opportunity 25 years ago named Alistair Lynch, although he had fewer injuries. 25 years is not a lifetime.

If the best alternative on offer is an end round 1 compo pick or one of Brisbane's late firsts, "nothing" isn't so bad. It's worth the risk.

Okay, enjoy your nothing! (or more likely, one of the best alternatives on offer, even if you think it's inadequate).

 

[Dalions]

If he can't make it back (and he has already demonstrated he can), you will be up for 5yrs x $600k (reportedly) under the current offer, which gets only band 1 compo.
Why not offer him 3 x $700k, with 2 more yrs based on games played? If he breaks down, the cost is $900k less for Brisbane.
Brisbane gets him for free trade wise, is no worse off salary cap wise (swap $100k of incentives to base), Essendon won't match if it gets rd1 compo.
Deal done, everyone fine.
And please don't tell me Daniher won't be happy because he wants 5yrs of guaranteed money. He has just had 3yrs of big money hardly taking the field. He couldn't possibly be upset with a guarantee of "just" 3 more.

How do you know for a fact that we haven’t only offered a 3 or 4 yr contract.

 

[Gadzorks]

If he can't make it back (and he has already demonstrated he can), you will be up for 5yrs x $600k (reportedly) under the current offer, which gets only band 1 compo.
Why not offer him 3 x $700k, with 2 more yrs based on games played? If he breaks down, the cost is $900k less for Brisbane.
Brisbane gets him for free trade wise, is no worse off salary cap wise (swap $100k of incentives to base), Essendon won't match if it gets rd1 compo.
Deal done, everyone fine.
And please don't tell me Daniher won't be happy because he wants 5yrs of guaranteed money. He has just had 3yrs of big money hardly taking the field. He couldn't possibly be upset with a guarantee of "just" 3 more.

One problem is we don’t know what the new TPP and list sizes. Spending big dollars before that drops isn’t wise. They could do contracts on percentage of TPP, but again need to know the total.

Understand where you are coming from. We were all pissed by the Rockcliff compensation pick. The AFL is a bit like going to court- no one gets exactly what they want or deserve. We still seethe over having to play a home final not at home, but it does seem over time that we all take a hit. Not right, but better than being the only team. Like the jingle says, we’re all in this together.

 

[60sbomber]

It's easy.. except we don't want to pay him 700k a year over 3 years, nor do we have to pay a player extra money so you get a better pick.

Again, if the bombers wanted to get fair compensation for losing him they should have traded him to Swans last year. You lot have already rolled the dice and lost. Stop asking us to give you a do over.

You don't want to pay him $700 per yr for 3 yrs, but the offer is (reportedly) $600k plus incentives for 5yrs. Some incentives.
You don't "have to pay a player extra money" at all. It's the same, or less if he is injured a lot.
And it's not "so you get a better pick", it's so you don't have to trade, and so get him for free, trade wise.
All the stuff about what could have been last year is just irrelevant to the current trade. Gone. Water under the bridge.

 

[Harris Specter]

You don't want to pay him $700 per yr for 3 yrs, but the offer is (reportedly) $600k plus incentives for 5yrs. Some incentives.
You don't "have to pay a player extra money" at all. It's the same, or less if he is injured a lot.
And it's not "so you get a better pick", it's so you don't have to trade, and so get him for free, trade wise.
All the stuff about what could have been last year is just irrelevant to the current trade. Gone. Water under the bridge.

Except it's not. It is proof of how dumb the management of Daniher has been by Essendon and Dodoro. There is no way he is worth even half that at the moment with his track record.

It's not the same if the money is a lot less than what you're offering. I think Noble made it clear in the past few press conferences, we won't be trading for Daniher as we have plans for our draft picks. So the best you can hope for is a 2nd rounder as compensation, relative to how much the Lions are valuing Daniher at.

 

[Brett C]

You don't want to pay him $700 per yr for 3 yrs, but the offer is (reportedly) $600k plus incentives for 5yrs. Some incentives.
You don't "have to pay a player extra money" at all. It's the same, or less if he is injured a lot.
And it's not "so you get a better pick", it's so you don't have to trade, and so get him for free, trade wise.
All the stuff about what could have been last year is just irrelevant to the current trade. Gone. Water under the bridge.

You're as bipolar a poster as I've seen on here in a long time. The constant changing of your position every time someone point out the stupidity of your position is hilarious.

Time to head back to your own board I think.

 

[Dalions]

I still think the AFL will find a way to give them Band 1 anyway.
Whether we have paid him enough or not.

 

[dlanod]

It's moments like this that we need a yawn reaction.

 

[M Malice]

It's moments like this that we need a yawn reaction.

?

 

[spotthedog1]

If he can't make it back (and he has already demonstrated he can), you will be up for 5yrs x $600k (reportedly) under the current offer, which gets only band 1 compo.
Why not offer him 3 x $700k, with 2 more yrs based on games played? If he breaks down, the cost is $900k less for Brisbane.
Brisbane gets him for free trade wise, is no worse off salary cap wise (swap $100k of incentives to base), Essendon won't match if it gets rd1 compo.
Deal done, everyone fine.
And please don't tell me Daniher won't be happy because he wants 5yrs of guaranteed money. He has just had 3yrs of big money hardly taking the field. He couldn't possibly be upset with a guarantee of "just" 3 more.

He has not already demonstrated that he can make it back. Show me a 15-20 game season and I'll agree.

Our offer reportedly already has games targets before triggering extra years.

Daniher could definitely be pissed at the Lions if overnight we turn to him and say "I know we have a deal for 5 years, but we're just going to cut that to 3 years". I don't care what Essendon paid him. He can and should be pissed at a club altering the deal after the handshake and public announcement.

$2.1m over 3 years is not cheaper than $3m over 5 years. What happens at the end of 3 years? Daniher has apparently proven he's past his injuries, so at the end of those 3 years we just get him for free for the next 2 years? If your boss turned to you and said "look, turns out, we've been overpaying you for 3 years, so we're just going to hold your salary for a year", are you showing up to work?

$700k is not enough for Band 1. The AFL won't tell us what it is, but based on the last 2 years, it's much higher than it used to be. We didn't get band 1 for Rockliff at $600-700k, and it's higher now than it was then. I think we'd need $900k to get you band 1.

Please. Go back to your own board. You have been here for days and convinced ZERO people that your draft-tampering-scheme is a good idea.

 

[Toffee Lion]

He should just retire and then get drafted by the Lions in the pre-season draft.

Has a good success rate.

 

[SizeMatters]

So we carry all the risk to provide extra benefit for Essendon? Typical Victorian club supportor mindset. Think the sun shines out of their areas and the competition owes them. Flogs.

 

[60sbomber]

He has not already demonstrated that he can make it back. Show me a 15-20 game season and I'll agree.

Our offer reportedly already has games targets before triggering extra years.

Daniher could definitely be pissed at the Lions if overnight we turn to him and say "I know we have a deal for 5 years, but we're just going to cut that to 3 years". I don't care what Essendon paid him. He can and should be pissed at a club altering the deal after the handshake and public announcement.

$2.1m over 3 years is not cheaper than $3m over 5 years. What happens at the end of 3 years? Daniher has apparently proven he's past his injuries, so at the end of those 3 years we just get him for free for the next 2 years? If your boss turned to you and said "look, turns out, we've been overpaying you for 3 years, so we're just going to hold your salary for a year", are you showing up to work?

$700k is not enough for Band 1. The AFL won't tell us what it is, but based on the last 2 years, it's much higher than it used to be. We didn't get band 1 for Rockliff at $600-700k, and it's higher now than it was then. I think we'd need $900k to get you band 1.

Please. Go back to your own board. You have been here for days and convinced ZERO people that your draft-tampering-scheme is a good idea.

1. "Our offer reportedly already has games targets before triggering extra years."
If the latter years of the offer are dependent on anything (eg games played) they don't count in the AFL assessment of compensation. So, if true, we are already on the right track. just front load it to the years that are guaranteed (only has to be 2 or more).

2. "$2.1m over 3 years is not cheaper than $3m over 5 years. What happens at the end of 3 years? Daniher has apparently proven he's past his injuries, so at the end of those 3 years we just get him for free for the next 2 years?"
I think you're missing the point.
If the current offer is $600k for 5yrs plus incentives, as reported, and, as you say, the last 2 years say, are dependent on games played.
Change the offer to $700k x 3yrs plus further 2yrs x $450k. (Or 3 x $800k plus 2 x $300k if that is needed to get band 1). Same dependencies. Daniher would be happy (better off if he doesn't meet dependencies, same if he does meet them). Brisbane same $3m commitment over 5ys. Only adverse outcome is if Daniher doesn't meet dependencies, Brisbane pay $2.1m for 3 yrs rather than $1.8m for 3yrs. In any event, the risk factor with his groin is more next year than any subsequent years. If he is right next year, he is over his injury, and the subsequent years are not greater risk than any other player.
I'm not suggesting he gets paid nothing in yrs 4&5.

It's not draft tampering. It's playing within the rules (utter rubbish as they are).
By the way, today's Melbourne HS is suggesting just such a deal, with their view of the trigger point for band 1 being $700k.

 

[spotthedog1]

It's curious... we have one club's supporters pushing a scheme to deliberately manipulate the rules in a way which clearly breaches the spirit of the law, and may also breach the letter of the law. And they're completely shameless.

Is anyone surprised that of all the supporter bases, this is coming from Essendon fans?

Hopefully 60sbomber doesn't speak for most of his cohort.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

What's Adrian doing posting on our board anyways?

 

[Daniels Riches]

They're not incompatible at all.
He is definitely a once in a lifetime opportunity. For Brisbane. Not for us, as he is definitely not going to play for us again.
I am only happy to lose him for "nothing" if it is a consequence of trying to get "something". If the best alternative on offer is an end round 1 compo pick or one of Brisbane's late firsts, "nothing" isn't so bad. It's worth the risk.

You are making no sense and now digging yourself a bigger hole. Please leave the Lions board alone. You have made your thoughts clear, so maybe stick to your own board. I think most Lions supporters welcome healthy discussion from opposition supporters, but you have certainly had your say and your comments are really doing my head in now. Good luck during the off-season.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Hollow Knight]

See post above. It's pretty easy. If he breaks down you save money. If he plays you pay the same.

Idiotic logic. I reckon you should probably just go back to the Essendon board.

People here have been unbelievably patient with explaining your flawed logic, tolerating your condescending way of arguing, and you constantly moving the goal posts in bad faith, but that patience is running out quickly.

There is only so much utter nonsense people can politely put up with.

 

[Nuggo]

I can see this possible happening to avoid Essendon matching. Essendon need another first rounder so they can trade in a player. They accept the FA compo band 2 (if that is what it is) and then on trade to us plus a later pick for one of our first rounders.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Apparently us not paying Essendon overs at the trade table would be an insult to Joe and cause him mental health problems.

Suddenly dropping his contract security from 5 years to three however would seemingly have no impact on his mental health.

Imaging spouting this sort of nonsense without any hint of satire.

 

[BangyBangy]

Popped over for a quick squiz on the Essendon board yesterday, one of the first posts I read was someone suggesting Coleman should be part of the trade. I love trade season. That was as much fun as a poster on the Cats board suggesting a straight swap, Cockatoo for Payne.

How awesome is it that pretty much no-one wants to leave our club. Players have to be willing to be traded & by the look of things (touch wood) everyone wants to be a part of what we're building. Chalk and cheese from the go home 5 era.

 

[jackess]

Popped over for a quick squiz on the Essendon board yesterday, one of the first posts I read was someone suggesting Coleman should be part of the trade. I love trade season. That was as much fun as a poster on the Cats board suggesting a straight swap, Cockatoo for Payne.

How awesome is it that pretty much no-one wants to leave our club. Players have to be willing to be traded & by the look of things (touch wood) everyone wants to be a part of what we're building. Chalk and cheese from the go home 5 era.

We should've demanded Daniher last year when Cutler nominated Essendon