The death of suburban football

[CJH]

The clash between Carlton and Collingwood at Optus Oval last season was billed as the ‘Last Suburban Stoush’. The following week, we had the next ‘Last Suburban Stoush’ when the Western Bulldogs took on Carlton at the same venue. I often read and hear of people who bemoan the death of the suburban passion. That the competition was better when it was suburb versus suburb. Oh for the good old days.

I’m not sure if this is really just a furphy? You see, I am 32 years old and since the age of 5 I have been a rabid Richmond supporter;one of the great suburban clubs!. I love the Richmond Football Club with a passion – nothing stirs the blood like seeing the MCG awash with the yellow and black.

But what does the suburb Richmond mean to me? Actually not very much! I grew up as a kid in middle suburbia, living in Clayton (right in the shadows of Monash University). I made a conscious decision as a 5 year old to follow Richmond after we had won the 1973 premiership. This was a decision based upon success at the time and not upon the relative geographic location of the suburbs. Going to primary school, Richmond was certainly one of the most heavily supported clubs, being in the midst of our glorious golden era. I’m tipping that the majority of my co-students again based their following on other factors than the geographic location of the Richmond suburb.

Let’s extend the argument a little. What does the suburb St. Kilda mean to a Saint supporter? For the past 25 or so years they have based themselves in the South Eastern suburbs of Melbourne at both Moorabbin and Waverley. Maybe as much as the Richmond suburb means to a Tiger?

Clubs like Richmond and Collingwood are long regarded as working class, Carlton and Hawthorn as middle class, principally because these respective suburbs fit into this demographic. Is this to say that all Richmond supporters therefore must be working class? All Carlton supporters must be middle class? Definitely not! This perception is one based upon the historic social class of the respective suburbs and not on any given current day reality.

Did the competition going national kill of the suburban based nature of the VFL. No way! The competition arguably went national at the time South packed up and moved to Sydney in 1982. Punt Rd is the spiritual home of the Tigers, but I have never seen the senior team kick a ball in anger their. We had moved to the MCG 2 years before I was even born and 16 before South went North.

Of the Victorian clubs, which of them actually represent the areas they are named after? Geelong is one. That is about it! Essendon would draw a lot of support from the North Western suburbs, but would have representation all over Melbourne and beyond. The Western Bulldogs have changed their name to reflect the fact that they represent the entire western suburbs of Melbourne. Do Carlton represent the people of the Carlton suburb? Collingwood? Hawthorn?

The point of all this is that the perception of the VFL/AFL as a suburban competition has long been dead. Long before the VFL went national. Probably about the time Melbourne spread beyond the inner suburbs that have their name carried by their respective teams.

To talk of Richmond as a suburban team, to me, is completely irrelevant, and always has been.


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This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Dan26]

Good post.

The only thing that really matters to people is whether the clubs are still around. And they are. It doesn't matter that Collingwood no longer play at Victoria Park; that Essendon no longer play at Windy Hill; that Richmond no longer play at Punt Road.

Even back in the 30's, Collingwood was regarded as the club with the most support. Since the suburb of Collingwood has never been very populous, this tells us that the Magpies were drawing support from ALL OVER Melbourne, even back in the 1930's. This was due to their success.

Tribal pasion and spirit is very much alive and always will be. I don't miss Windy Hill on bit. As long as the clubs themselves are around, suburban football - or what we think is suburban football - will be alive and well; venue is irrelevant.

 

[lioness]

Suburban football and all its traditions died with the Fitzroy Football Club, don't fool yourselves.

(For the record, this is my 100th post YAY

)

[This message has been edited by lioness22 (edited 13 November 2000).]

 

[Drakey]

Suburban football isn't dead. It just isn't represented by the AFL.

If you want suburban football go watch the VFL, SANFL or Westar League.

Better still, try amateur league.

 

[Mags]

Suburban Footy Is Dead! Sorry To Say But It Is!

Cooperate are now here and are stuffing up our game taking the best seats etc.

For Pies Fans,
Most likely they will be no more vfl games at Vic Park coz of our merger with Williamstown and will be playing our games in so called "Caroline Springs". Which is all the way over in whoop whoop.

I wont be attending Vfl games at "Caroline Springs" coz it isnt Collingwood it has nothing with Collingwood except Willamstown having a few of our players and them playing a few games at the G as Curtain Rasiers.

The only thing Suburb in footy these days is Optus Oval. I think Optus Oval should be kept as an Afl Venue and it needs to be kept so we can continue to play games on a Saturday Afternoon.

Optus Oval is the only AFL venue in Melbourne that I know u can sit on Level 1 for a General Admission price.

At the G all we get is one bay in the Great Southern Stand Behind The Goals (Where I Love Siting At) And The bottom level of the Ponsford which is not close to the action anyway.

At Colonial all we get is a level 4 seat which suxs.

With Nine now getting the rights we wont know what will happen to Colonial, Coz there is talk of channel 9 buying Waverley Park out.

The Afl isnt the same without Fitzroy I would have loved to see them still running around instead of Fremantle.

Suburban Footy Footy Is Dead And Its getting worse with Wayne Jackson trying to make a little bit more money in his pocket.

Mags
Black And White Forever
Shearer Shearer Shearer

The Anti Essendon Vendetta Rolls On!!!!!!!!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Great post CJH !

I have long felt that the old VFL clubs started to outgrow their old suburban homes many many years ago.

It probably started back in the early 1950's when the old inner suburbs of Melbourne started to dramatically change their demographics.

Working class families that provided the backbone of support for footy clubs in places like Collingwood, Fitzroy and Richmond all moved out to the suburbs and their places were taken by new immigrants from Southern Europe and later SE Asia.

Also at the same time, the arrival of new forms of media took the game from out of the old inner suburbs and onto the world stage. TV, Radio, mass newspapers and later the Internet all helped in making the game very quickly out-grow its humble origins.

So I reckon the old VFL ceased to effectively become a suburban based competition years and years ago. Before the Swans flew North, maybe you might have to go back to the time when Hawthorn stopped playing at Glenferrie or even when Richmond left Punt Road.

 

[fighting fury]

I agree with you all. Suburban footy has gone or is diminishing. The big guns are more political, think more about real estate, dragging souls like us further and further away from our home to where the game is. They know this and they will keep testing our club loyality to the end. With the merges, the drafts, the shut down of footy grounds, it will go on and on. I wonder where it will stop. The next thing we know will be to change the 16 clubs we have and reduce them. The AFL have the power and they can do what they like. We can only protest. But they choose the locations and have the money (probably from us) to do it. The only local games we see are the amateurs and VFL. Whose to say, they won't be effected or maybe they are. Football is unpredictable. The AFL Exec. are unpredictable. They change the rules as they see fit. We Australians are very traditions and when someone comes along and changes this we do get upset. Unfortunately, though, we have to live with it. If we want our clubs to survive we will go anywhere and everywhere to follow. It is sad, but that's reality.

I miss Waverley, my son would often go with his father there to see Richmond play. It was easier, less tiresome. They would be home in time for dinner and to enjoy and reflect on a great game, win or lose. Now, by the time it takes them to come home by train all they can remember is how many stations they had passed and barely remembered the actual game.

CJH, your passion for Richmond is certainly recognised and I know you would go as far as you could to see them.

I guess that's why they do put the footy on Optus and Foxtel, so that if you can't get to the actual game live, you have the luxury of staying at home to watch it. BUT it's just not the same is it!

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Welcome to the jungle

 

[Spunjy]

I coach an under age baseball side. Unfortunately a lot of them are Essendon supporters. When I asked them where Essendon was, only one of them knew where it was, and he was then told by the rest of the kids that he was wrong. I know that I only went for Melbourne because I lived in Melbourne (the city, not CBD) and not any of the other suburbs represented by teams.
Suburban footy is definitely dead.

 

[Mobbs]

Football as it was known, as a social enhancement to the average livelihood, is dead.

Some boffins with brass noticed it was worth something to Joe Blow, and decided to make money out of it. At our expense.

Clubs are dying everywhere, at every level.

Some folk have no idea of the agony caused by a merger, or by a club folding.

It's Hell. No bones about it.

 

[AlfAndrews]

I think BSA is pretty close to the truth. It was post-war demographic changes that killed the old suburban rivalries in the old VFL. Supporters of all clubs moved into outer suburbs in pursuit of the Australian Dream of a quarter acre block ... and of course, the white picket fence.

Then came the stupid decision of the State government of the time to go for a car-based, freeway-oriented metropolis. And the V.F.L., itself a bastion of Bolte's Liberal Party, was caught hook, line and sinker. This was reflected in the decision to build its new state-of-the-art 166,000-seater stadium right in the demographic heart of all this expansion.

But the first club to officially make it's name irrelevant was St.Kilda.

How many of you realise that when the Saints moved to Moorabbin in the mid-1960s it was actually intended that the club would change its name to Moorabbin? The only reason it didn't happen was because the club's constitution wouldn't allow it. There was some opposition to the move ... but it was generally seen as a progressive change.

At the same time, North Melbourne moved to Coburg ... but that move, unlike the St.Kilda-Moorabbin move, was short-lived because Coburg was really a Carlton stronghold ... and the local Coburg Council took the side of the VFA club, Coburg. North went back to Arden Street with their kangaroo tails very much between their legs when it became clear that the Coburg community didn't want to know about them.

But, clearly, the Saints had found their true home. The actual suburb of St.Kilda was becoming a much too interesting place to attract football fans. It was vibrant, cosmopolitan, sleazy and cutting-edge. The beach suburbs along the peninsula became the St.Kilda footy heartland ... much more in keeping with the bronzed Aussie yobbo mentality.

Then, of course, many, many years later, South pissed off to Steak-and-Kidney ... and the rest is (national) history.

The South move merely accelerated a process already well under way. Fitzroy had moved so many times they didn't know where they were. But I guess you could say that they at least knew WHO they were ... at least until 1996.

I better watch out ... Roylion will probably send a 20,000 word post to shoot me down in flames for that little bit of poetic licence

But really, the closure of grounds like Arden Street, Windy Hill, Victoria Park etc. etc. were really just a BELATED recognition of a process of sweeping change that began, probably in 1947, when A.A.Calwell, the immigration Minister in the Chifley A.L.P. federal government, threw the counntry's doors open to non-British immigration ... and the very same time as post-war affluence was beginnig to encourage Australian-born citizens to move from their tiny slum dwellings in the inner surburb out into those far-flung hideous car-dominated outer suburbs.

And as for good old Collingwood ... you'd be hard-pressed to find a Collingwood barracker in Collingwood these days. And if you did, the chances are they'd be too stoned to bother going to the footy.

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**floreat pica**

 

[Davo]

What a load of frogs shit!
Suburban football dead?
You Pricktorians tend to think you invented the game, play the game and know everything about the game.
Everything seems to revolve around the now defunct Fitzroy Football Club and football in general.
Let me tell you on my last trip to Melb. crowd numbers were up in the EDFL, the DVFL and a couple of other leagues I just happened to catch games at, in the 2 weeks I was down there!
Up here, suburban football registration numbers are on the increase and I notice that one particular bigfooty member has done some serious homework on the number of clubs, schools and player numbers compared to rugby league.
Suburban football just isn,t played in Pricktoria. Its played in every state of Australia if you took off the blinkers.

 

[dyson]

In 1996, 98 and 99 Errol Street North Melbourne was a sea of royal blue & white. Alot of the terrance houses were also decked out in the colours. People probably do not know about this because the media have never highlighted it.

 

[Olmy]

For once I'll have to agree with you DAVO (you rude man!!!).

Suburban footy is not dead. (Neither is the Fitzroy FC for that matter, wrong on that one DAVO).

Go out and support your local clubs for crying out loud. It's every bit as good as the AFL and VFL (or is that the AFL reserves?).

I for one, will be making the trip out to Brunswick St. Oval next season to see the Fitzroy Reds take the field in the VAFA. The one game I have seen of theirs, was a fantastic game, and a truly great day of footy.

The fact that the Fitzroy FC (still in existence) was able to be involved was a bonus.

 

[Mobbs]

Considering that the team from the town I grew up in no longer exists, the team I followed in the major Australian league no longer exists, the team I followed in the (arguably) second biggest league of my state (VFL) no longer exists, and the team I followed in the second biggest football state's major league no longer exists, its worth some obstinacy on my part.

The original game is become thin on the ground. All the cultural attractions are being weeded out of the major leagues. Inappropriate food is now available, beer can't be bought in a can, there's limits to the size of a flagpole, fans are chastised even for standing on seats.

The teams I alluded to above are Marnoo, Fitzroy, Oakleigh and West Torrens. The first one, Marnoo, is the biggest loss to me, in hindsight. The loss of the footy club is probably going to kill the town. I was there recently for a reunion, the place was missing something, even with the population injection from the event. I drove through Moonambel on the way there, the old ground still existed, the scoreboard, and the sheds. It's a saddening experience.

I don't think even TGP have a team any more. This was a team created from the merger of three clubs, Tempy, Goruya and Patchewollock. It's deeply saddening.

It's the stink of death.

 

[kevin sooky]

Comrade Alfy

Was that the same glass jawed racist A. A. Caldwell who said "Two Wongs dont make a White"?

Could be.......

[This message has been edited by kevin sooky (edited 20 November 2000).]

 

[Woofer]

Mobbenfuhrer - you've had a hard time haven't you. There are many clubs in the Mallee/Wimmera who have gone in the last 10 years but I don't think you could label it as "footys dying". That whole region is suffering from population drain - people go and so does the infrastructure. The people of Marnoo have probably done the same thing as you - left the area to find a job. I am a Bulldog / Williamstown boy and both clubs have faced closure in the last 12 years. It certainly shook me out of my lethargy and I'll fight like hell should they ever get close to going again.

 

[sainter]

Alf,

You're right that the decision to move to Moorabbin has proven to be fruitful one because it has enabled to us to establish a supporter base right down the Mornington Peninsula.

I do recall a time, in the late 1980's I think, that the saints expereimented with calling themselves the "Southern Saints". It wasn't an official name change but was used on merchandise and our logo for a brief period.

Fortunately the move failed and St Kilda will always remain the name of the club, even as you say the actual suburb does not have any real significance to the current football team.

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Fortius Quo Fidelius

 

[Mobbs]

Country football always seems a bit rawer, closer to the bone, nearer to the idea of football from its conception, that's why I use it as an argument.

Point taken, a lot of suburban footy is probably well attended etc etc. Still, I see suburban footy as being a little more representative of the original values of the game and its culture, than it is for city footy. The community involvement, for instance, is a major point.

The culture of 'suburban footy' is most pronounced in country footy, and country teams are dying out.

And yes, I along with many others had to leave my small town of upbringing to find employment. Short of a miracle, I agree that this cannot be helped.

 

[CJH]

Davo and Olmy, I know you are correct in what you say about 'suburban' football as it exists at the grass roots level.

This, however, was not the point of my discussion topic. I ultimately directed the comments at the AFL competition. In this national competition, there are number of teams - mostly from Melbourne - that were spawned out of the inner city suburbs.

Even to this day, there are many who yearn for the days of suburban football as it existed in Melbourne in the earlier parts of this century. As I pointed out, earlier on this year, when Collingwood and Carlton clashed at Optus Oval, it was billed at the 'Last Suburban Clash'.

My point is referring to the old 'traditional' Melbourne clubs as suburban is now completely irrelevant and has been for at least 30 years and probably closer to 50.

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This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Max Power]

The suburban aspect of the VFL teams probably died in the 50's when Melbourne started to grow out rapidly with the baby boom generation.

All places east of Box Hill, around Greensborough, Dandenong, Frankston, Broady sprung up in a short time from farm land to what it is now, but all VFL clubs remained within 5k of the CBD. Guess St. Kilda moving to Moorabin in the 60's was a sort of an acknowledgement about Melbourne changing.

Wasn't around that time so I don't know what clubs did to build up support in the new areas. I grew up in Burwood/Mt. Waverley way in the 70's/80's and that was a Richmond stronghold for some reason while out Ringwood way where Max Power lives now is Essendon dominated. Collingwood is strong in the Greensborough/Heidelberg area and I'm sure there are other strong support patches in relatively new areas.

The then VFA put teams in these new areas, and all of those VFA teams have died - Kilsyth was once a VFA team so was Glen Waverley! No tradition maybe? I don't know why they fell over. Something else to ponder.

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[Olmy]

CJH - even in the AFL, I don't think suburban footy is 'entirely' dead.

You can still pass the MCG as a suburban ground (just). Optus Oval definitely fits the bill, and Kardinia Park is just about as close as you can get to a suburban ground in the country. There'll still be some suburban clashes between the likes of Richmond, Hawthorn, Carlton, Melbourne, St.Kilda, Collingwood, Geelong, Essendon, Roos, Bulldogs etc.

It's not the same as it used to be, and I know it sucks (hell, I'm a Fitzory supporter). But there is still 'something' left of suburban football.

It's really up to the supporters to make it last - the AFL won't. If you want your club to stay how it is (and have a viable existence at the same time), you also need to put your hand in your pocket and buy a membership. It's also worth telling your club why.

It's all about identity, isn't it? Preserving what we like about our game and the clubs we support.

The current football world is seeing its indentity being challenged. Out with the old, sentimental and traditional values of the past, in with the new, slick and commercialised, marketable version. A lot of this is down to the fact that the AFL has changed its focus over the last 10 years that that of a corporate focus (as opposed to being an organisation set out to serve the existing clubs - part of that is due to the Crawford Report from '93). Then you have clubs who are struggling to survive unless they themselves sell out their identities to scratch out a buck. That's where the suburban nature, and identity of football is going.

(About to preach . . .)

Therefore, it's the supporters, and the clubs themselves who must keep their indentities alive. Supporters must stick by their clubs (ie: buying memberships), and even let their clubs know how they feel about keeping their proud identity alive.

Unless clubs get this support from their supporters, they will definitely look elsewhere - big business. It f* sucks, but that's the way it is.

I dread the day that I see a match announced as "Pura Saints v Mazda Roos" . . . let's hope it doesn't come to that.

May the spirit of the Roys live on forever!

 

[CJH]

Olmy, we may well just have to agree to disagree. I stil maintain that the inner city suburbs represented by most Victorian teams are irrelevant to the actual clubs.



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This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Olmy]

CJH - I guess we are partly arguing two different things anyway.

The actual geographic location, yes, is probably irrelevant, as support for clubs is spread across all parts of Victoria. Which, I think is the point you are making. I agree.

However, my point is that the 'nature' of suburban football need not be lost yet (ie: a club's identity). I think the concept 'suburban football' is just as much about a club's identity representing something to supporters that they can call "their own" or "local".

Being a Fitzroy supporter, I see all other Victorian supporters of Victorian clubs at the top level (AFL) as being lucky. While I support the Brisbane Lions, and I think they do a fairly good job of looking after the Fitzroy people (with room for some improvement!), I am still jealous of the culture that other supporters are part of in other Victorian clubs.

There is still very much a 'local' nature to a number of the Vic clubs. True, maybe not in a geographical sense - but certainly in a sense of identity and what a club represents to the supporters.