Review The decade that was.

[Vdubs]

Can you remember who the sub was?

AFL #19 team selections

All the AFL round 19 team selections

www.theage.com.au

Not West!

 

[Partridge]

AFL #19 team selections

All the AFL round 19 team selections

www.theage.com.au

Not West!

Can you remember who got subbed out? Only because it's important to remember it would affect stats.

 

[winty]

Can you remember who the sub was?

Apparently it was Smedts.

 

[Vdubs]

Can you remember who got subbed out? Only because it's important to remember it would affect stats.

was at that game and recall West's performance. It was poor and he may well have frustrated the MC and been subbed out, but I can't recall that . Can recall that all 3 of us thought that for a player who had just been recalled, he was abysmal, and would likely get dropped again. And, yes...

 

[darren forssman]

2013 PF now on fox footy for the reminiscing.

 

[cats_09]

2013 PF now on fox footy for the reminiscing.

For good measure, should we bump the game day thread?

 

[you pick one]

was at that game and recall West's performance. It was poor and he may well have frustrated the MC and been subbed out, but I can't recall that . Can recall that all 3 of us thought that for a player who had just been recalled, he was abysmal, and would likely get dropped again. And, yes...

I reckon West was subbed out for Smedts and Vardy took over in the ruck.

 

[BIGANT]

Creating alot of divided discussion on this cat's fb page

What more can you say...

View attachment 796291

Most contested marks between 2010 & 2019

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[darren forssman]

For good measure, should we bump the game day thread?

At your own peril.

 

[Cattery]

Can you remember who got subbed out? Only because it's important to remember it would affect stats.

Would have a bit of a bearing on stats for sure.

West was subbed out (played 55% GT) for fourteen hitouts, whereas Vardy and Blicavs (87 & 77% GT respectively) amassed twelve between them.

 

[Vdubs]

Would have a bit of a bearing on stats for sure.

West was subbed out (played 55% GT) for fourteen hitouts, whereas Vardy and Blicavs (87 & 77% GT respectively) amassed twelve between them.

If only it was that simple.
Blake would never have been sacked if it was all about HO's.
We attended a game v Saints, ? 08, West was virtually statless, (4 disposals) and the only thing he did do was KO one of the dopey Clarke brothers.

 

[Partridge]

If only it was that simple.
Blake would never have been sacked if it was all about HO's.
We attended a game v Saints, ? 08, West was virtually statless, (4 disposals) and the only thing he did do was KO one of the dopey Clarke brothers.

If it was 2008 I think it was his 3rd game.

About time we insisted on higher standards for new players.

 

[Vdubs]

If it was 2008 I think it was his 3rd game.

About time we insisted on higher standards for new players.

I'm not even sure what my point was there.
It was early in his career.
West certainly evolved into a handy player, specially 2011 as a backup ruckman, and he had some big numbers as far as hitouts, but he also dropped off in 2013.
I think I have only ever thought and suggested he was a fine #2 ruck, but not up to being a #1 ruck, particularly against the guns like 211 and Goldy, but that would not have stopped his effort. Just late in 13, for whatever reason, he fell out of favour, and missed many games, and did ,look out of his depth at times.
I am not keen on denigrating any (premiership)player that has worn the hoops.

 

[Cattery]

If only it was that simple.
Blake would never have been sacked if it was all about HO's.
We attended a game v Saints, ? 08, West was virtually statless, (4 disposals) and the only thing he did do was KO one of the dopey Clarke brothers.

Does put a slightly different perspective on the game that you continually refer to though, although beaten in the ruck maybe some of the blame should be directed at the two blokes the MC decided to go with in the finals as well, rather then just West.

Funnily enough, for someone you praise for his ruckwork Blake actually averaged less hitouts per game then West.

I'm not even sure what my point was there.
It was early in his career.
West certainly evolved into a handy player, specially 2011 as a backup ruckman, and he had some big numbers as far as hitouts, but he also dropped off in 2013.
I think I have only ever thought and suggested he was a fine #2 ruck, but not up to being a #1 ruck, particularly against the guns like 211 and Goldy, but that would not have stopped his effort. Just late in 13, for whatever reason, he fell out of favour, and missed many games, and did ,look out of his depth at times.
I am not keen on denigrating any (premiership)player that has worn the hoops.

This is what I (and I think Partridge) have said all along, he wasn't a genuine number one ruck but still the best option in that role given the alternatives, and should have played in the finals.

Would he have made a difference, well we'll never know; almost certainly not against Freo, but against Hawthorn, a game we lost by five points, and where Vardy, and particulary Blicave, were totally ineffective, it "may' have been a different story.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Does put a slightly different perspective on the game that you continually refer to though, although beaten in the ruck maybe some of the blame should be directed at the two blokes the MC decided to go with in the finals as well, rather then just West.

Funnily enough, for someone you praise for his ruckwork Blake actually averaged less hitouts per game then West.

Not exactly a fair comparison. Blake spent his career as second fiddle to King/Ottens and never really got the shot as primary ruckman.

west for a period did get that chance

 

[Frappe]

Not exactly a fair comparison. Blake spent his career as second fiddle to King/Ottens and never really got the shot as primary ruckman.

west for a period did get that chance

Blake got plenty of game time both when Ottens was injured for most of 2009, plus when he rucked in tandem with him.

Plus often when Blake was in the ruck, he and Ottens could wear the opposition down together. When West was first ruck, he didn’t have this luxury.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Blake got plenty of game time both when Ottens was injured for most of 2009, plus when he rucked in tandem with him.

Plus often when Blake was in the ruck, he and Ottens could wear the opposition down together. When West was first ruck, he didn’t have this luxury.

Don't think you grasp the concept. Re-read and come back to me.

 

[Vdubs]

Does put a slightly different perspective on the game that you continually refer to though, although beaten in the ruck maybe some of the blame should be directed at the two blokes the MC decided to go with in the finals as well, rather then just West.

Funnily enough, for someone you praise for his ruckwork Blake actually averaged less hitouts per game then West.



This is what I (and I think Partridge) have said all along, he wasn't a genuine number one ruck but still the best option in that role given the alternatives, and should have played in the finals.

Would he have made a difference, well we'll never know; almost certainly not against Freo, but against Hawthorn, a game we lost by five points, and where Vardy, and particulary Blicave, were totally ineffective, it "may' have been a different story.

Circles here, but what has been established is that West lost form in 13 and it cost him his spot, and may have affected us. He fell out of favour, and in some crucial games it was clear why.

Blakey averaged 19 hitouts a game over his 99 game career, West 20, but Blake played much less TOG over his career. If Blake had been persevered with as a #1 tap ruckman from 2012, I suggest we would have won the 13 flag. He had to play #2 to Ottens for his career, which is to be expected, but also performed capably enough in his absences. I maintain his career was halted prematurely given his pedigree, given when his dad hit his peak form, and given how durable and effective he was once he left Geelong.
I get that he wasn't picked up elsewhere in AFL circles, and that I may be a little biased.
But if he had been our # 1 ruck in 12, 13, 14, who knows!!?
Guys like Stephenson, HMcIntosh were unnecessary.

 

[Frappe]

Don't think you grasp the concept. Re-read and come back to me.

Your post stated that Blake spent his career as second fiddle ruckman to King and Ottens. I disagree as he had a good run at it in 2009 and part of 2008. This was due to Ottens being injured. Was comparable to West’s opportunities, if not better.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Your post stated that Blake spent his career as second fiddle ruckman to King and Ottens. I disagree as he had a good run at it in 2009 and part of 2008. This was due to Ottens being injured. Was comparable to West’s opportunities, if not better.

Your mis-reading is forgiven.
Try again

 

[Frappe]

Your mis-reading is forgiven.
Try again

No thanks. I don’t get into point scoring. I’ll state my thoughts and move on.

 

[ATSAM]

Circles here, but what has been established is that West lost form in 13 and it cost him his spot, and may have affected us. He fell out of favour, and in some crucial games it was clear why.

Blakey averaged 19 hitouts a game over his 99 game career, West 20, but Blake played much less TOG over his career. If Blake had been persevered with as a #1 tap ruckman from 2012, I suggest we would have won the 13 flag. He had to play #2 to Ottens for his career, which is to be expected, but also performed capably enough in his absences. I maintain his career was halted prematurely given his pedigree, given when his dad hit his peak form, and given how durable and effective he was once he left Geelong.
I get that he wasn't picked up elsewhere in AFL circles, and that I may be a little biased.
But if he had been our # 1 ruck in 12, 13, 14, who knows!!?
Guys like Stephenson, HMcIntosh were unnecessary.

Unfortunately falling out of favour is an ongoing issue with C Scott as the Coach. No matter what his form was in the last few games of the 2013 season, West was fit, uninjured, experienced, deserved respect as a premiership player-remember the premiership that only Scott could have won- yet wasn't played when Hawkins was a late withdrawal. Whether he was a genius ruckman or not he would have been a valuable addition on that fateful day.
Just as in this years finals round, a player is dropped for some reason or other non of which is discernable to us and others, forcing another player to fill in that spot. It didn't work in 2013 nor in 2019.
Another player who'fgell out of favour' was Dawson Simpson who dropped amark in a game at KP early in the season and wasn't seen again. Another one Zac Smith who failed to stip Gawn marking in the first game of the ??2017 season and wasn't seen again. Neither ever had a chance to gain experience for a reasonable decison to be made of their worth.

 

[Vdubs]

Unfortunately falling out of favour is an ongoing issue with C Scott as the Coach. No matter what his form was in the last few games of the 2013 season, West was fit, uninjured, experienced, deserved respect as a premiership player-remember the premiership that only Scott could have won- yet wasn't played when Hawkins was a late withdrawal. Whether he was a genius ruckman or not he would have been a valuable addition on that fateful day.
Just as in this years finals round, a player is dropped for some reason or other non of which is discernable to us and others, forcing another player to fill in that spot. It didn't work in 2013 nor in 2019.
Another player who'fgell out of favour' was Dawson Simpson who dropped amark in a game at KP early in the season and wasn't seen again. Another one Zac Smith who failed to stip Gawn marking in the first game of the ??2017 season and wasn't seen again. Neither ever had a chance to gain experience for a reasonable decison to be made of their worth.

Another was Blake--stranded on 99 games and fell out of favour never to return to the team. There were some of those games he rucked Walker and Hawkins!!!
I don't agree with all his decisions, but have come to accept them. He knew the value of C Keating in finals, and Ottens. He just has not valued our rucks since Ottens left.

 

[David the Cat]

He just has not valued our rucks since Ottens left.

Something I agree with Scott about....the word ordinary jumps to mind ......from my recollection anyway...

 

[ItsSodiumChloride]

High: Beating Collingwood in the grand final
Low: Our shitty finals record after 2011