The decayed decade

[Gone Critical]

Ratten was never a party animal but I have seen him associated with the booze culture. I don't think that is right. Kernahan has a famous post flag video that follows him around, but you never heard of him in trouble for binge drinking incidents[/B]. I think there is a certain element that were better than the others on our terrible list of a few years ago, that could afford to be rockstars and still be the best players on our team. Fev and Stevens certainly fit this mould. Others willingly participate in this sort of thing as it is one of the trappings of success for a young and dumb footballer.

I know the club counsel players on avoiding the pitfalls of being a football celebrity, but unless you make your mistakes, you never listen to that sort of thing. I feel there is nobody at the club that strikes fear into the players nobody that you would be afraid to face should you step out of line. We need someone that commands respect and it has to be in the coal face. I think Ratten is a good coach that has the ability to motivate his players, but he is no Parko. Even the assistant coaches don't have those characteristics. Bradley is quiet, Riley is no taskmaster, Diesel part time but more introverted, Lappin is a mouse. Where is our Nathan Buckley? Arrogant, happy to give someone a serve ... they don't have to be the tactical head coach but they have to be that drill sargeant to compliment the head coach. Peter Dean would have been a good choice because he is a little crazy when it comes to football. If we don't get this drill sargeant in the coaches box, we need them on the field and spilling over into social circles.

Anyway, got to go and look at some land. My thoughts are incomplete but I will try to pick it up again later.

Not trolling here and v interested in your thoughts. After Collingwood Carlton is the team that interests me most. Love and hate are strong emotions

A bit like Collingwood in times gone past you are acknowledging that "the Carlton way" has failed you but you dont fully believe it. You still have trouble stepping fully into the professional age and letting the past go. This may be to some degree perception only but your current coaching structure and the pagan experience reinforce that view.

Pagan was poisoned from within so you can never really know if he could have worked. He had been recently successful but his methods may have alrady been outdated by the time he arrived. A combination of internal resistance to his methods, list disasters and lack of board support made his tenure imposiible whatever his own shortcomings.

As you pointed out there is a lack of a strong extroverted character on the coaching panel is a concern. To my mind so is having your coaching panel loaded with ex Carlton players directly associated with your "old days". Then to be overseen by a president who is associated with the same and has to be seen in his long association with the club as principally a "players man".

It may be mainly perception and these guys may be capable of doing the job but unfortunately we live in a time where perception (usually media driven) often overtakes football realities in the blink of an eye.

Kernahan/Ratten may be your answer but importing some strong established modern figures into your organisation is possibly what you need to fuel your so far incomplete transition from the "old ways".

 

[thylacine60]

Not trolling here and v interested in your thoughts. After Collingwood Carlton is the team that interests me most. Love and hate are strong emotions

A bit like Collingwood in times gone past you are acknowledging that "the Carlton way" has failed you but you dont fully believe it. You still have trouble stepping fully into the professional age and letting the past go. This may be to some degree perception only but your current coaching structure and the pagan experience reinforce that view.

Pagan was poisoned from within so you can never really know if he could have worked. He had been recently successful but his methods may have alrady been outdated by the time he arrived. A combination of internal resistance to his methods, list disasters and lack of board support made his tenure imposiible whatever his own shortcomings.

As you pointed out there is a lack of a strong extroverted character on the coaching panel is a concern. To my mind so is having your coaching panel loaded with ex Carlton players directly associated with your "old days". Then to be overseen by a president who is associated with the same and has to be seen in his long association with the club as principally a "players man".

It may be mainly perception and these guys may be capable of doing the job but unfortunately we live in a time where perception (usually media driven) often overtakes football realities in the blink of an eye.

Kernahan/Ratten may be your answer but importing some strong established modern figures into your organisation is possibly what you need to fuel your so far incomplete transition from the "old ways".

Effort.

 

[Biffinator]

ODN - thanks for the reply, and the amount of thought that went into it.

I am a big believer that nothing happens by chance in matters pursuant to human endeavours. The cosmos - from what I can tell personally - has in-built mechanisms to address sustained, wayward behaviour.

When RDB and the Dees trooped off after the 1964 Premiership - their sixth in ten years - and not having lost a game by more than 10 goals since 1953 - who would have thought that such a wasteland lay ahead.

The same could be said of Richmond in 1982. After fifteen years of glory, they won the Second Semi Final, had the week off, and since then they have reaped a handful of dust with no end in sight.

At the same time, Carlton, whether externally imposed, self-inflicted or a mixture of the two, has sustained one mishap after another since the (everlasting) glory of the 99 Prelim.

Why have these dynamics taken root and become self-perpetuating? In my mind, the answer is simple: Hubris.

I could quote slabs of Sophocles, Aeschylus or Shakespeare to vindicate this view - and view it be - but in your instance it is not required - even if you don't agree with it.

As Melbourne and Richmond both testify, Hubris is not easily forgiven and the punishment is measured in decades, not seasons. In Carlton's instance, the Hubris was seismic.

Like my beloved Demons, your club has 'spent and spent and spent and now it is time to pay'.

Biffinator.

PS, being the limited human being that I am, I could be completely wrong about all this - but I cannot ignore the evidence and Willy Shakespeare had a firm finger on the pulse of the universe.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Biff - thou hast been partaking in wonderous herbs

Then let not winter's ragged hand deface,
In thee thy summer, ere thou be distilled:
Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
With beauty's treasure ere it be self-killed.
That use is not forbidden usury,
Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
That's for thy self to breed another thee,
Or ten times happier, be it ten for one;
Ten times thy self were happier than thou art,
If ten of thine ten times refigured thee:
Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
Leaving thee living in posterity?
Be not self-willed, for thou art much too fair
To be death's conquest and make worms thine heir.

 

[blue gunslinger]

thy - I never knew you and Willy were such good mates!

 

[thylacine60]

thy - I never knew you and Willy were such good mates!

He references me a lot, guns. Under licence of course.

 

[blue gunslinger]

as far as I am aware the two of you have never been seen together. Perhaps I have stumbled across your secret oh great bard!

 

[thylacine60]

Foresoothe cobber!

 

[Godzke]

Didn't recognise Ratts there for a moment, but I see it now.

ps: great post ODN. Takes balls to come up with that.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Biff - my comrade
By polluting clear water with slime you will never find good drinking water.
Aeschylus

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Aeschylus

It is an easy thing for one whose foot is on the outside of calamity to give advice and to rebuke the sufferer.
Aeschylus

My friends, whoever has had experience of evils knows how whenever a flood of ills comes upon mortals, a man fears everything; but whenever a divine force cheers on our voyage, then we believe that the same fate will always blow fair.
Aeschylus

You have been trapped in the inescapable net of ruin by your own want of sense.
Aeschylus


Do not grieve yourself too much for those you hate, nor yet forget them utterly.
Sophocles

Fortune raises up and fortune brings low both the man who fares well and the one who fares badly; and there is no prophet of the future for mortal men.
Sophocles

If you have done terrible things, you must endure terrible things; for thus the sacred light of injustice shines bright.
Sophocles

Isn't it the sweetest mockery to mock our enemies?
Sophocles


There is no sense in crying over spilt milk. Why bewail what is done and cannot be recalled?
Sophocles

Whoever grows angry amid troubles applies a drug worse than the disease and is a physician unskilled about misfortunes.
Sophocles

 

[Biffinator]

Are you having a laugh?

Hubris, Karma, Rasputin and The Spice Girls?
I'd love to join in on any topic where Philosophy or Theology have eyes, but are you pulling our leg here?

Not at all.

Gunslinger gets it, even if he may not agree with me.

Alternatively, please come up with a better theory yourself. A "Shit just happens" methodology is a crutch for the weak-minded.

Biffinator.

 

[blue gunslinger]

I am more a Zen man and look towards a wonderous future
You look for excuses
I am amazed a man learned like yourself does not sink your teeth into Sylvia Plath or Nietzsche. Such depression and grim views can be friends amongst misery.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

I thought Norm Smith put a voodoo curse on MFC,
during that fateful WoS interview.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Biff try Lao Tzu
By letting it go it all gets done. The world is won by those who let it go. But when you try and try. The world is beyond the winning.
Lao Tzu

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Lao Tzu

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
Lao Tzu

I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures.
Lao Tzu

If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading.
Lao Tzu

Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don't resist them - that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.
Lao Tzu

Of all that is good, sublimity is supreme. Succeeding is the coming together of all that is beautiful. Furtherance is the agreement of all that is just. Perseverance is the foundation of all actions.
Lao Tzu

Simulated disorder postulates perfect discipline; simulated fear postulates courage; simulated weakness postulates strength.
Lao Tzu

When virtue is lost, benevolence appears, when benevolence is lost right conduct appears, when right conduct is lost, expedience appears. Expediency is the mere shadow of right and truth; it is the beginning of disorder.
Lao Tzu

 

[sosos]

You imply that Nemesis has followed the Hubris.

But when does this start and end? After '95? How does that explain finals capmaigns in '99 and '00?

Carlton haters have been bleating about Carlton's supposed arrogance and disrespect for many years.

The cop out is blaming it on karma.

 

[thylacine60]

Fortunately my karma ran over my dogma.

 

[blue gunslinger]

You imply that Nemesis has followed the Hubris.

But when does this start and end? After '95? How does that explain finals capmaigns in '99 and '00?

Carlton haters have been bleating about Carlton's supposed arrogance and disrespect for many years.

The cop out is blaming it on karma.

I am arrogant not becasue f 1995 but because of FIGJAM

 

[Robbo's my hero]

I didn't like to read books when I was young but I loved reading the 'Footy Record'. I can't recall Plato or Machiavelli getting a run. I didn't realise it at the time but Grasshopper and his mentors taught me a great deal about philosophy.

Try these.

1st round next year.

" Men do not beat drums before hunting tigers. " -- Caine

Team rule for next season. Will be inspirational when we're behind at three quarter time.

"If you plant rice, rice will grow. If you plant fear, fear will grow." -- Caine

As for Biffinator's argument.

"If a man dwells on the past, then he robs the present; but if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nurtured by the roots of our past." -- Master Po

Closing credits. Caine disappears into a haze of heat.

 

[The Toad]

F**K me. It is very quiet in the off season. I had to go and recheck this thread to make sure I wasn't on the "shit talking" thread.

Oh wait.....

 

[blue gunslinger]

It has become a philosphy thread due to biff
when you look into the abyss the abyss also looks into you
the world is an illusion created by a conspiracy of your senses
and other such dribble only Biff the master of spin can do.

 

[Blue Dawn]

Fortunately my karma ran over my dogma.

You idiot. I quite liked your dogma actually - it was cute if a tad flatulent on occasion.

Good work Guns on lifting the generally squalid character of BF over summer with a lick of Lao Tzu (even if via brainyquote.com).

 

[Shambolic]

Great thread, not sure I get any of it, but you guys seem very learn-ed (pepe).

Im still stuck on one point - are some of you saying 1980 was in the 1970's?

 

[Monkey King]

I do have a very high IQ and is one that see thing a lot different to what normal people actually view.

Your character development is pure brilliance starchamber; I mean surely this is a fictionalized exploration of the self. Either that or an attempt to exemplify the infinite monkey theorem.

Regardless... LMFAO!

 

[Biffinator]

You imply that Nemesis has followed the Hubris.

But when does this start and end? After '95? How does that explain finals capmaigns in '99 and '00?

Carlton haters have been bleating about Carlton's supposed arrogance and disrespect for many years.

The cop out is blaming it on karma.

What I am saying should not be equated with karma. Nor did I mention the word Nemesis once. What I am suggesting is a different concept.

I don't see how the 99 finals, for instance, or even the 2009 final series, undermine my theory (and theory it be).

Additionally, 'when the good times turned bad' I suggest, only started to kick in with Kouta's knee injury in late 2000. Woewoedin won the infamous 'Chocolate' Brownlow shortly after and it was game on.

Biffinator.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Biffinator-

Additionally, 'when the good times turned bad' I suggest, only started to kick in with Kouta's knee injury in late 2000. Woewoedin won the infamous 'Chocolate' Brownlow shortly after and it was game on.

Thanks, I'll have nightmares tonight.