Why is it that coaches who have each had tremendous success at previous club go to Carlton and then get shit from Carlton fans?Only dark dark days for his time at my club.
Even Malthouse was not as bad and no big fan of his.
I agree with most of this.IIRC Pagan signed with Carlton shortly before the salary cap penalties were handed down. If he knew what was coming surely he wouldn't have joined the Blues...
They were last when he took over so I don't know if miracles were expected, but Carlton performed better than they should have in 2004 winning 10 games. All fell apart after that and with Walker (2004) and then Murphy/Kennedy (2005), Gibbs (2006) and Kruezer + Judd via trade for Kennedy out (2007) they started to finally get back on track. No coach survives long term with a record as bad as Pagan's.
IMO Pagan's time at Carlton says more about Carlton than it does about Pagan. Throw money at someone else's successful coach and try to manufacture success overnight by recruiting ready made players. The draft restrictions (for continuing the Carlton tradition of buying success via players) just added insult to injury. They were competitive with Ratten/Judd but the Carlton arrogance shone through again and they went for Malthouse (who just wanted to stick it up Eddie) thinking they had another level when in reality Ratten got that group about as far as they could go. If you're not beating WC in 2011 you are not beating Hawthorn/Geelong/Collingwood/Sydney. Now they have Teague and they finished the season 6-5 from a 1-10 start. You can mark it down that if they have a couple of 10-12 win seasons the board will be sniffing around trying to buy Clarko or Longmire or Ross Lyon or whoever.
My post is my opinion. It is not all Carlton fans positing.Why is it that coaches who have each had tremendous success at previous club go to Carlton and then get shit from Carlton fans?
Carlton were never charged by the AFL for breaching the salary cap in 95, so by opening your mouth i suppose you have proof. I would like to see it.Why is it that coaches who have each had tremendous success at previous club go to Carlton and then get shit from Carlton fans?
Malthouse and Pagan are two of the greatest coaches of the modern era. If they went to Cartlon and they didn't have the impact they had previously, maybe it is because Carlton Football Club is shambles. Their list is a shambles, their club culture (jobs for the boys) is in shambles, their football department is in shamble (hi SOS!), and going off posts like the above, their supporters are in shambles too!
Coaches can't fix f’ed up clubs. Look at Richmond, it wasn't until they got the off-field stuff sorted out that they were able to start impacting on the field. Same is true for Carlton.
Reality is, Carlton has been a shambles and only reason they sit on 16 premierships is because the were busy buying flags with salary cap breaches and rorting the system.
It isn't Malthouse and Pagan that suck, it's Carlton Football Club.
You started this thread mate, and now your trying to turn it into a anti Carlton thread. Better make your mind up or is that what you are really after?Nah, I reckon Denis put $$$ over his pride.
He knew Carlton were his one last payday and took it.
Knowing they'd be shit.
It happening in one decade isn’t a greater achievement than it happening across two decades.He coached seven consecutive prelims in a decade. Those players you mention like Carey and Mckernan, he developed in the under 19s.
Aagin, Carlton people proving my point that the shitshow there at the end of his career has affected how he's viewed overall.
Yep, agree.It happening in one decade isn’t a greater achievement than it happening across two decades.
Great coach. Record at North was backed up by his achievements in U19s and reserves.
Carlton was a pity.
Oh please, that is the equivalent of bombers saying that Essendon players were not guilty as there was no positive tests.Carlton were never charged by the AFL for breaching the salary cap in 95, so by opening your mouth i suppose you have proof. I would like to see it.
Nah didn't apply. It was in that big tower opposite the flats - I think Mofra has done the Lord's Work there- he's got his offices in.a
I'm guessing Denis wasn't happy with the fake agent audition you went in for......
Is that the main reason you didn't end up getting the apartment ?.