The Denis Pagan Era and its legacy

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Cyril says

Team Captain
Jun 8, 2015
453
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Hawthorn
It is interesting how much impact Denis Pagan has had on the last decade of football - yet how little this has been commented on.

Of the premiers of the last decade, by my count, only three coaches haven't had direct personal experience playing or coaching with Pagan:

2019/17 - Richmond/Damien Hardwick.

Hardwick played under 19s under Pagan at North, then Pagan took him to Essendon in the year he coached the twos:




2018 - West Coast/Adam Simpson.

Simspon played in two premierships under Pagan, was a core member if the great Pagan teams. Simpson called Pagan for advice on the morning of the 2018 Grand Final




2016 - Western Bulldogs/Luke Beveridge

No playing or coaching link I know of.

2015/14/13 - Hawthorn/Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson played under Pagan at North senior in 93/94/95 before being traded to Melbourne.

There's a hell of a lot in Clarko's approach to footy that can be seen in Pagan's attitude too - especially the "unsociable footy" stuff.

2012 - Sydney/John Longmire

Played in a premiership at North under Pagan, played under-19s under Pagan, Denis loved him and Longmire obviously learned from him.



2011 - Geelong, Chris Scotts

No link to Pagan I know of.

2009 - Geelong, Mark "Bomber" Thompson

Bomber was assistant under Pagan, including the 1999 flag, which no doubt helped him get appointed at Geelong the next year.







2010 - Collingwood/Mick Malthouse

No playing or coaching connection I can think of.

Now obviously Pagan had a bigger influence on some than others, and these are all very very effective men in their own right.

But it is undeniable that a key indicator of coaching success in the last decade has been working with Denis Pagan during your career.

Has the shitshow at Carlton really undermined his reputation that much? He's seen as very old school now, almost like a relic, yet the 2018 premiership coach, known for being right up at the cutting edge of coaching and "cultural" trends, rang him for advice the morning of the Grand Final.

Where does Denis Pagan's legacy sit?
Great post.

Used to chat with him at the races. Top bloke.

All those coaches are highly disciplined.
 

JeanLucGoddard

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2018
12,094
28,590
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Great post.

Used to chat with him at the races. Top bloke.

All those coaches are highly disciplined.
Yeah, he was instrumental in the lives of a lot of young men who could have gone down a shitty path without him.

Boomer Harvey couldn't speak highly enough of him.
 

Yojimbo

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2012
8,917
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AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
This is actually the Ron Barassi legacy. Pagan is just a middle man.
Ron Barassi coached North Melbourne 1973-1980, Denis Pagan was a player at North Melbourne from 1967-1974
and then went to Sydney (Sth) for 1975 & 1976 so not much of a cross over in fact Barassi might have stamped
his papers as a player who knows.
 

Ok Boomer

Back in my day
Jul 27, 2015
6,602
10,688
AFL Club
West Coast
I think his coaching and gameplan styles became very dated very quickly in the 2000's which didn't help his cause at Carlton.

Without a champion centre half forward (Fevola notwithstanding), decent midfield and with the flooding that was prevalent, it had no chance.
 

RobR

Premiership Player
Sep 16, 2014
3,827
9,504
AFL Club
Carlton
Ron Barassi coached North Melbourne 1973-1980, Denis Pagan was a player at North Melbourne from 1967-1974
and then went to Sydney (Sth) for 1975 & 1976 so not much of a cross over in fact Barassi might have stamped
his papers as a player who knows.
Barassi may have stamped his papers at Carlton beforehand as well.
 

JoPearson

Draftee
Jan 21, 2020
3
0
AFL Club
Carlton
It is interesting how much impact Denis Pagan has had on the last decade of football - yet how little this has been commented on.

Of the premiers of the last decade, by my count, only three coaches haven't had direct personal experience playing or coaching with Pagan:

2019/17 - Richmond/Damien Hardwick.

Hardwick played under 19s under Pagan at North, then Pagan took him to Essendon in the year he coached the twos:




2018 - West Coast/Adam Simpson.

Simspon played in two premierships under Pagan, was a core member if the great Pagan teams. Simpson called Pagan for advice on the morning of the 2018 Grand Final




2016 - Western Bulldogs/Luke Beveridge

No playing or coaching link I know of.

2015/14/13 - Hawthorn/Alistair Clarkson.

Clarkson played under Pagan at North senior in 93/94/95 before being traded to Melbourne.

There's a hell of a lot in Clarko's approach to footy that can be seen in Pagan's attitude too - especially the "unsociable footy" stuff.

2012 - Sydney/John Longmire

Played in a premiership at North under Pagan, played under-19s under Pagan, Denis loved him and Longmire obviously learned from him.



2011 - Geelong, Chris Scotts

No link to Pagan I know of.

2009 - Geelong, Mark "Bomber" Thompson

Bomber was assistant under Pagan, including the 1999 flag, which no doubt helped him get appointed at Geelong the next year.







2010 - Collingwood/Mick Malthouse

No playing or coaching connection I can think of.

Now obviously Pagan had a bigger influence on some than others, and these are all very very effective men in their own right.

But it is undeniable that a key indicator of coaching success in the last decade has been working with Denis Pagan during your career.

Has the shitshow at Carlton really undermined his reputation that much? He's seen as very old school now, almost like a relic, yet the 2018 premiership coach, known for being right up at the cutting edge of coaching and "cultural" trends, rang him for advice the morning of the Grand Final.

Where does Denis Pagan's legacy sit?
No offence mate ,but anyone couldve coached those teams at North in the 90's !
He was ******* hopeless at Carlton both in coaching and recruiting
 

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Forward Press

Premium Platinum
Jul 5, 2011
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Pagan was handed a list crippled by sanctions and penalties. I don't know why Carlton fans are so bitter about his time at the club - who could have done better? He still had couple of decent enough seasons especially given the personnel at his disposal.

North achieved something like 7 prelims in a row and 2 flags with Pagan. I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on his attempts to revive Carlton - short of a mini resurgence in the early 2010s Carlton haven't exactly completely recovered from that.
 

JoPearson

Draftee
Jan 21, 2020
3
0
AFL Club
Carlton
It is no surprise that the 93 Baby Bombers emerged after he coached many of them in the twos in 92.
Pagan was handed a list crippled by sanctions and penalties. I don't know why Carlton fans are so bitter about his time at the club - who could have done better? He still had couple of decent enough seasons especially given the personnel at his disposal.

North achieved something like 7 prelims in a row and 2 flags with Pagan. I wouldn't write him off so quickly based on his attempts to revive Carlton - short of a mini resurgence in the early 2010s Carlton haven't exactly completely recovered from that.
He recruited Mickey McGuane FFS
 

Forward Press

Premium Platinum
Jul 5, 2011
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He recruited Mickey McGuane FFS
And Daniel Harford, and David Teague, and Mick Martyn etc. What's your point? It was an aging list in which your former president and his cronies broke the rules systematically to try and remain in the hunt. Pagan made do with what he had, no top picks for years, no draft picks to trade for talent, and all of the 1995 team on their way out, but it is easier to just blame the coach I suppose.
 

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