The Denis Pagan Era and its legacy

[footyfan1978]

I wonder how it would look if you removed the Carlton years from the ledger.

About 70% i reckon.
He was great for North in time he was there.

 

[The Warlord]

For me it has. He spoke so much s**t one day it was torture to put up with him knowing there was zero hope of any real development whilst he was there.
He was excellent with the under 19's players he developed and then had as senior players at North. It is like that group of players , coach and specific game plan was perfect for each other.
Still he blew the 98 grand final and should have won at least 3 premierships with that group of players. But 2 premierships is still success so he still had success as a coach in one era but beyond that he did not do anything special so he reputation was ruined in terms of being flexible coach that can coach well with any group.

That is true - but as I've shown above, that era didn't stop there, given the links of contemporary successful coaches to him.

 

[The Warlord]

Personally I think anything good Denis Pagan did will eventually be attributed to Michael Christian.

Ploise eggsplain.

 

[Brutalitops]

He also had a brilliant strain of one liners - "you can't go up to Puckle Street and buy a jar of confidence" - that are legendary.

"Dont piss down my neck and tell me its raining". Not his originally, but the only time ive heard it at a presser

 

[FRUMPY]

This is exactly what I mean about the Carlton shitshow damaging his reputation.

He's a two time premiership coach and as demonstrated above, has been a constant in the flags of the last decade.

Wanst much bait on the hook but still landed him....

I was just having a laugh at people who make s**t like this up. 'so much of other premiership teams success can be attributed to Denis Pagan....blah blah blah'

Why is it linked to denis pagan? May as well go back and see who coached him or influenced him. Its just a thread to say 'how good was my coach'

 

[footyfan1978]

That is true - but as I've shown above, that era didn't stop there, given the links of contemporary successful coaches to him.

Yes, Adam Simpson is a ripper, but having meet Adam myself, I actually see Simpson whilst influenced by that period under Pagan, is really his own man in way he coaches.
I think Simpson has way more depth to him than Pagan and could coach different sets of players well. Pagan did not sadly.

 

[Scotland]

Ploise eggsplain.

Christian/Pagan gag. Too subtle?

 

[footyfan1978]

"Dont piss down my neck and tell me its raining". Not his originally, but the only time ive heard it at a presser

The sayings is most memorable thing about him. Had some real funny old fashioned sayings.

 

[The Warlord]

Christian/Pagan gag. Too subtle?

Ahhhhhh, sorry, bit slow today.

Now it has been slowly explained to me, I agree, its a good gag.

 

[Scotland]

Ahhhhhh, sorry, bit slow today.

Now it has been slowly explained to me, I agree, its a good gag.

That is how you want a gag to go down, explained slowly.

Pagan always reminded me of this guy:

 

[footyfan1978]

Prove it is a guy...

 

[The Warlord]

Yes, Adam Simpson is a ripper, but having meet Adam myself, I actually see Simpson whilst influenced by that period under Pagan, is really his own man in way he coaches.
I think Simpson has way more depth to him than Pagan and could coach different sets of players well. Pagan did not sadly.

Men of their time agreed. The rubber chicken thing was a hangover from the Pagan era, and poor old Adam Simpson, who was clearly not keen on it, was sent out to explain it, which sucked.

But then, you don't ring your old coach the morning of the Grand Final for advice if you don't think he's still not in touch at some level.

 

[footyfan1978]

Some level, yes.....

 

[footyfan1978]

In my time of watching Carlton only Percy Jones I probably rate less as one of our coaches.

 

[Chief]

I wonder how it would look if you removed the Carlton years from the ledger.

Why give a coach credit for anything at all?

 

[Beerfish]

Why give a coach credit for anything at all?

Good question.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Still he blew the 98 grand final

Not sure a side kicking 8.22 can be blamed on the coach.

 

[The Warlord]

Not sure a side kicking 8.22 can be blamed on the coach.

Wayne Carey missing them from 20m out.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

AFL Tables - Denis Pagan - Coaching Record

afltables.com

Concluding with five losing seasons hammers a legacy

 

[footyfan1978]

Not sure a side kicking 8.22 can be blamed on the coach.

He's the coach. he had a chance at half time to correct the situation. It only got worse...
He gets credit for the premierships and negatives for the *s ups too.

 

[Beerfish]

AFL Tables - Denis Pagan - Coaching Record

afltables.com

Concluding with five losing seasons hammers a legacy

It's a shame that the way he ended probably tarnishes his legacy in the eyes of many. I daresay this was probably put to him on Open Mike in between the questions about dealing with Carey rooting the captain's wife and how much he was on. It's hard to imagine him giving much of a rat's about it though.

 

[The Warlord]

It's a shame that the way he ended probably tarnishes his legacy in the eyes of many. I daresay this was probably put to him on Open Mike in between the questions about dealing with Carey rooting the captain's wife and how much he was on. It's hard to imagine him giving much of a rat's about it though.

Yeah, ruins it.

Sheeds work at GWS enhances his legacy imo, although he would have struggled to get a win too.

Pagan pissed all over himself.

 

[Beerfish]

Yeah, ruins it.

Pagan pissed all over himself.

Can't agree with that.

And the only reason Sheedy's legacy was enhanced by gws was because it was a start up. If he'd gone to Carlton, shudder, and had the same results as Pagan his legacy would still have taken a hit despite being more successful than Pagan to begin with.

 

[The Warlord]

Can't agree with that.

And the only reason Sheedy's legacy was enhanced by gws was because it was a start up. If he'd gone to Carlton, shudder, and had the same results as Pagan his legacy would still have taken a hit despite being more successful than Pagan to begin with.

Sheedy was smart enough not to risk that though.

 

[Yojimbo]

Sheeds work at GWS enhances his legacy imo,

Never let anybody DOMINATE you, clearly Sheedy never ventured down to the hell fire club on a Saturday
night and had his ass paddled for fun.