The Denis Pagan Era and its legacy

[Yojimbo]

His inability to regenerate the list shows he only did it once.
The great coaches did it with different lists and also built the lists

Since 1990 Essendon have won the minor premiership on five occasions for two premierships, since 1990
North Melbourne won the minor premiership on one occasion, but by some magical sorcery also have two
premierships. Essendon the most minor premierships in the modern era after 1990 with five, what does
this say about your own politician come coach ?

 

[boncer34]

Since 1990 Essendon have won the minor premiership on five occasions for two premierships, since 1990
North Melbourne won the minor premiership on one occasion, but by some magical sorcery also have two
premierships. Essendon the most minor premierships in the modern era after 1990 with five, what does
this say about your own politician come coach ?

Are you trying to argue Sheedy couldn't build lists?

 

[Yojimbo]

Are you trying to argue Sheedy couldn't build lists?

No, not at all, just Essendon had more opportunities in the post 1990 period and achieved the same number of
premierships that's all. One of my friends who was fortunate enough to play AFL got his opportunity through
Sheedy not at Essendon, but through a recommendation to Daniher at Melbourne, classy act that he did not
have to do.

 

[juss]

That's why there's a coaching strategy named after him that still gets referenced today.

I mean effectively this was "let's give Wayne Carey space". Genius.

Obviously he could coach a bit, he got multiple flags. I don't see what the huge criticism of him is. Eventually the game and tactics pass every coach by.

 

[footyfan1978]

His inability to regenerate the list shows he only did it once.
The great coaches did it with different lists and also built the lists

Bit of a myth now. List builds are very different to early 90's when Denis got North to coach.
He had coached many of them in under 19's... that no longer exists for clubs...
The zone system was about to go and would be taken over by National Draft system once under 19's abolished and new club Fremantle concessions passed by.
Salary cap was still relatively new and clubs not taking it 100% seriously until Carlton draft sanctions hit home and massive fine so Pagan has never lived through the re-generation of lists that should be the normal list build now. Coaches might get some say in recruiting but nothing like the days back in early 90's. Marshmallow Miller put most of finishing touches to the old style of list builds when zones and under 19's were still in the last seasons.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Yep, better than Denis too. Did some great groundwork for the next decade and allowed quite a number of youngsters to have great grounding development for when they mature.

I bet you said the same thing about the list Ratten built, we all know how that turned out

 

[JerryWexler]

Only dark dark days for his time at my club.
Even Malthouse was not as bad and no big fan of his.

He was given nothing to work with, and your club did all that on their own.

 

[footyfan1978]

He was given nothing to work with, and your club did all that on their own.

Indeed, was a ****ed situation and with the little new players he had to work with, he did not handle it well at all.
I would have loved a coach that at least coached in right spirit so some of newer players could develop some hope long term. The opposite happened. It is why he never got a job after it too. Everyone could see he was done at the elite level.

 

[JerryWexler]

Indeed, was a f’ed situation and with the little new players he had to work with, he did not handle it well at all.
I would have loved a coach that at least coached in right spirit so some of newer players could develop some hope long term. The opposite happened. It is why he never got a job after it too. Everyone could see he was done at the elite level.

Don't you find it odd that he was the only coach that could handle Fevola?

 

[HTT]

Technically Beveridge is a grandchild of the Pagan era via Clarkson

This implies that Hardwick and Simpson are creepy illegitimate as they have a parent that is also a grandparent

 

[footyfan1978]

I bet you said the same thing about the list Ratten built, we all know how that turned out

Coaches do not get much say anymore in recruiting. They do not build the lists. The list managers do. The list managers around that time were pretty ordinary.
He at least started teaching new players better habits which was refreshing change.

 

[footyfan1978]

Don't you find it odd that he was the only coach that could handle Fevola?

Odd that you think that. Fev was the same guy all through his career. Talented, exciting but also at times, very stupid both on and off field.
I wanted him traded to West Coast as part of Judd deal. Did not happen, Greg Swann stupidly stepped in to have Josh Kennedy to go even though he did not want to. Stupid decisions after putting two years of development into Kennedy and looked very promising.

 

[JerryWexler]

Technically Beveridge is a grandchild of the Pagan era via Clarkson

This implies that Hardwick and Simpson are creepy illegitimate as they have a parent that is also a grandparent

I'll never grasp Richmond fans. And after that comment, I'm not sure I want to.

 

[The Warlord]

I mean effectively this was "let's give Wayne Carey space". Genius.

Obviously he could coach a bit, he got multiple flags. I don't see what the huge criticism of him is. Eventually the game and tactics pass every coach by.

You mean wrong, that's not at all what it was about.

It was actually predicted on Carey winning contested footy further up the ground.

 

[Robertio]

Don't you find it odd that he was the only coach that could handle Fevola?

Fevola was a dickhead from day one until the day he finished, if you think by putting him at fullback one game as handling him, your mistaken.

 

[steelebottom22]

A few of the Carlton boys said Denis pagan was a racist franchina,kouta, Christou said he looked after Anglo players

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not sure i can recall another coach who's players loved, idolised and respected more than the entire playing list at North did of Denis Pagan.

 

[Freomaniac]

Technically Beveridge is a grandchild of the Pagan era via Clarkson

This implies that Hardwick and Simpson are creepy illegitimate as they have a parent that is also a grandparent

interesting you said that