The Derby - A Sensible Discussion

TheReason

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Thread starter #1
Without sounding condescending:

Regardless of the personnel in each team and injuries / suspensions out of each team, regardless of the umpiring (yes it was shocking), the simple fact is that the Eagles wanted the win more. That much is pretty obvious.

I felt sorry for Bell (in particular) and Pavlich, that not many other players stood up when it counted. Bell bleeds Freo through and through. It must be devasting for him, that on a continual basis, no one else (Pavlich excepted) comes to the party.

Freo's midfield looked slow but, that is really a reflection on WCE being 1st to the ball... ditto on the umpiring free kick tally.

Player Summaries

Hedland - It would have been good to have seen him play to ascertain whether he is finally upping the ante in his performances, and to to see if he is able to perform when things aren't going well.

Longmuir - Very dissapointed with his performance, and I still firmly believe that he is over-rated. I have very rarely seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Medhurst - Very easy to bash him... I would be surprised if he's not traded.

Farmer - Yes, I hate the guy... but not much he could do when there was bugger all delivery or quality delivery into the Fwd line.

Haselby - Looked pathetic... but we all know he's been carrying an injury, so he is excused from a lynching.

J.Carr - very dissapointing this year. I have seen 3/4 of the Dockers games this year, and I have rarely seen him perform up to the level he consistently displayed at P.Adel. I find it quite bizarre that some of these threads are spind-doctoring the c rap that Carr has had a better year than Stenglein.... whatever.

Sandilands - He actually looked okay. He still got beaten in the ruck, but he wasn't flogged, as Cox has taken him to the cleaners on previous occassions. He was not disgraced as he came up against the No.1 Ruckman this year. Will get better, that much is obvious.

Schofield - I think theres no need to make a comment on him.

Coach Assessment

Seemed bizarre that he made bugger all moves during the match. I would have thought Pavlich into the midfield early in the 2nd qtr and McPharlin into the backline shortly after. However, doing so would have meant bugger all to kick to in the Fwd line. I suppose, CC is on a hiding to nothing in that respect.

Recruiting next year

Quite obvious to me that a "big name recruit", will not be the solution to fixing the teams lack of hunger on the big stage. I'm talking about when CC talks up a game, and not when the club has been rogerred by all and sundry (media / fans) i.e. going in as the hunter, ala, Melb and Geelong games.

Therefore, the improvement has to come from within, from the existing personnel.


Thoughts?
 

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pav_is_god

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#2
Our main problem (as always) was the lack of clearances. We can't expect to win if we can't get first possession of the ball. Our attack relies too heavily on drive created from the half back line, which is dangerous because it usually means giving the opposition a chance to kick at goal first. And if they're a good side like the Weagles are, they'll make good use of the opportunity and score, thus bringing the ball back to the centre and creating the clearance problem again.

Our second major problem in that game was the lack of height down back. For some reason Polak was dropped before the game, leaving us one tall short. This meant Mundy had to play as the extra tall on Lynch and Seaby. With the amount of ball coming into our defensive 50, Mundy had no chance of holding off those bigger players on a consistent basis.
 

docker_johnno

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#3
TheReason said:
Without sounding condescending:

Regardless of the personnel in each team and injuries / suspensions out of each team, regardless of the umpiring (yes it was shocking), the simple fact is that the Eagles wanted the win more. That much is pretty obvious.

I felt sorry for Bell (in particular) and Pavlich, that not many other players stood up when it counted. Bell bleeds Freo through and through. It must be devasting for him, that on a continual basis, no one else (Pavlich excepted) comes to the party.

Freo's midfield looked slow but, that is really a reflection on WCE being 1st to the ball... ditto on the umpiring free kick tally.

Player Summaries

Hedland - It would have been good to have seen him play to ascertain whether he is finally upping the ante in his performances, and to to see if he is able to perform when things aren't going well.

Longmuir - Very dissapointed with his performance, and I still firmly believe that he is over-rated. I have very rarely seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.

Medhurst - Very easy to bash him... I would be surprised if he's not traded.

Farmer - Yes, I hate the guy... but not much he could do when there was bugger all delivery or quality delivery into the Fwd line.

Haselby - Looked pathetic... but we all know he's been carrying an injury, so he is excused from a lynching.

J.Carr - very dissapointing this year. I have seen 3/4 of the Dockers games this year, and I have rarely seen him perform up to the level he consistently displayed at P.Adel. I find it quite bizarre that some of these threads are spind-doctoring the c rap that Carr has had a better year than Stenglein.... whatever.

Sandilands - He actually looked okay. He still got beaten in the ruck, but he wasn't flogged, as Cox has taken him to the cleaners on previous occassions. He was not disgraced as he came up against the No.1 Ruckman this year. Will get better, that much is obvious.

Schofield - I think theres no need to make a comment on him.

Coach Assessment

Seemed bizarre that he made bugger all moves during the match. I would have thought Pavlich into the midfield early in the 2nd qtr and McPharlin into the backline shortly after. However, doing so would have meant bugger all to kick to in the Fwd line. I suppose, CC is on a hiding to nothing in that respect.

Recruiting next year

Quite obvious to me that a "big name recruit", will not be the solution to fixing the teams lack of hunger on the big stage. I'm talking about when CC talks up a game, and not when the club has been rogerred by all and sundry (media / fans) i.e. going in as the hunter, ala, Melb and Geelong games.

Therefore, the improvement has to come from within, from the existing personnel.


Thoughts?
My thoughts exactly. Thankyou.
 

patsmith

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#4
docker_johnno said:
My thoughts exactly. Thankyou.
I thought you changed over to our (WCE) side earlier in the year? Back to Freo already, or am I thinking of someone else?

(If I am thinking of someone else, please disregard.)
 

Exeter

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#5
I've beeen hearing a lot about how the Dockers were crucified by poor umpring decisions in the derby.

While there's no doubting that the Dockers got rogered over about 5 or 6 decisions, A Dockers supporting mate of mine is utterly convinced that the umpiring cost them the game.

My point in reponse is that if you are second to the ball, more often than not the decision will go against you. Yes the Eagles did win the free kick count, but how much of that can really be attributed to crap umpiring?
 

nurries

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#6
Exeter said:
I've beeen hearing a lot about how the Dockers were crucified by poor umpring decisions in the derby.

While there's no doubting that the Dockers got rogered over about 5 or 6 decisions, A Dockers supporting mate of mine is utterly convinced that the umpiring cost them the game.

My point in reponse is that if you are second to the ball, more often than not the decision will go against you. Yes the Eagles did win the free kick count, but how much of that can really be attributed to crap umpiring?
The umpires didnt win the game for the Eagles, But it probably would of made a more competitive first half as goals from cheap frees sap the opposing team confidence. Taking nothing away from the Eagles but the umpiring was crap @ best.
 

kidstyler

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#7
umps had nothing to do with it. we just got owned in the midfield...

we need to start making a midfield and not trading for one. starting off with peake and schammer (inturpted pre-season)! cookie is our hard man with macca. sure they dont have the skills and judd or the rest but they GO for the ball.

people make out we have THIS all great list when no we dont. i admit we have a great spine:

with pav @ CHF
murphy or mcpharlin @ FF
bell in the centre
polak @ CHF or mcpharlin...
and drill @ FB!

but in todays game the spine is not enough...
 

pav_is_god

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#8
kidstyler said:
umps had nothing to do with it. we just got owned in the midfield...

we need to start making a midfield and not trading for one. starting off with peake and schammer (inturpted pre-season)! cookie is our hard man with macca. sure they dont have the skills and judd or the rest but they GO for the ball.

people make out we have THIS all great list when no we dont. i admit we have a great spine:

with pav @ CHF
murphy or mcpharlin @ FF
bell in the centre
polak @ CHF or mcpharlin...
and drill @ FB!

but in todays game the spine is not enough...
We can start by not playing Schofield. I don't know why CC insists on playing him when he is so obviously underdone.
 

Bestbird

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#9
nurries said:
The umpires didnt win the game for the Eagles, But it probably would of made a more competitive first half as goals from cheap frees sap the opposing team confidence. Taking nothing away from the Eagles but the umpiring was crap @ best.
Possession stats at Quarter and Half time suggested the scores were about right
 

raffrox

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#11
TheReason said:
Without sounding condescending:


Longmuir - Very dissapointed with his performance, and I still firmly believe that he is over-rated. I have very rarely seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck.
Disagree. I think J Lo's value to our team is large. See the 1st Melbourne game of the season for an example. He'll never be a superstar but is in Freo's top 10 players IMO.
 

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raffrox

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#12
TheReason said:
Without sounding condescending:

Thoughts?
Just read some of your posts on the main board about Freo. You might play nice on our board but otherwise just your garden variety troll.

Go f*ck yourself.
 

dugrene

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#13
raffrox said:
Just read some of your posts on the main board about Freo. You might play nice on our board but otherwise just your garden variety troll.

Go f*ck yourself.
Go wash your mouth out ....you.... you...... you ungratateful little oh ooh dont you know thats an Eagle Supporter your talking to.

Just wait till your dad gets home. :eek:
 

Plugga

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#14
I run a large tipping comp, & we do votes 5-4-3-2-1 for each Wet Toast & Freo game. Stenglein has 13 votes, Josh Carr 29. Perhaps u may have been asleep 1/2 the Freo games u actually watched.

Longmuir...would rather him any day over Hansen, McDougall, Lynch, Gaspar, Seaby

Schofield...no comment

medhurst...agreed. Definitely trade bait, I believe Farmer works better (& vice versa) when alone. I think we'd get someone in a trade of good quality, or a high draft pick.

Hasleby - Played injured all year, but no excuse...Hird et al do it week in week out. Nowhere near his best this year, will be lucky to make top 8 of F & B.

Sandilands - Improvement has been out of sight in last 2 months. I've changed my opinion of the big spider. Will be ther best ruckman in comp in 2007 onwards.
 

freocynic

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#15
I think the most telling stat that i saw wasn't any umpiring counts (not that there wasn't some dodgy frees to the egirls in front of goals early) but the possesion count at some point in the second quarter.

It read West Coast 111 Possesions, Fremantle 59

We got killed. Cant blame the umps, or the rain/slippery conditions, or even CC. The players froze like rabbits in the headlights
 

Slacker

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#16
freocynic said:
I think the most telling stat that i saw wasn't any umpiring counts (not that there wasn't some dodgy frees to the egirls in front of goals early) but the possesion count at some point in the second quarter.

It read West Coast 111 Possesions, Fremantle 59

We got killed. Cant blame the umps, or the rain/slippery conditions, or even CC. The players froze like rabbits in the headlights
Agreed. Sure we copped some dodgy decisions, but in the end the free count kick was of a similar ratio to the time-in-possession difference.

At the risk of being labelled a whiteant I am more than a bit disappointed in the lack of effective direction from the coaches box during the derby. I agree with The Reasons coaching assessment entirely. Yes McPharlin should have been moved to CHB for a fair part of the first half, yes Pav should have had a run in the midfield.

Some other discussion points:

*The players started slow and flat in one of their biggest games again. What is going on in the pre-game build up?

*Leaving Polak out and bringing in Schofield was the disaster we all could have predicted it to be. Yes they predicted rain which explains Polak’s omission to an extent, but for future reference I would prefer to see Macca out their busting his gut than no-Scho.

*We seem to invariably play a loose man back - you know it, I know it and the opposition know it. Do we have any alternatives to this in our play book? Maybe a bit of man on man occasionally, at least we know who is accountable. The loose man back, or even full flood, is F’all use when opposition midfielders are running unchecked out of the middle.

*Our midfield is still slow and short. Bring a faster & taller player onto the ball, put Peake or Crowley onto the rotation occasionally (develop someone).

*Schammer needs to be played as a checking midfielder until he improves the defensive aspects of his game. Which begs the point, do we play any of our midfielders in a run with role? J Carr seemed useful in this role in the past.

*Lastly, make a damn change. Even if you are re-arranging chairs on the titanic. Who knows, maybe you will find something that works.

Having said all that I will continue to back CC. But damn, react to the unfolding game, don’t persevere until the grim end!!

This morning I heard McPharlin apologise to the coach on behalf of the players for not following the game plan or some other damn thing. Dude, actions speak louder than words, grin and bear for a week then make up for it on the field.
 

masai

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#17
All I'll say is :-

Why was Schofield brought in, wouldn't McManus be a better option?.

We never give Cook enough credit.

Medhurst ................ grrrrrr.

Parker, Mundy, Thornton etc have sore necks ............. I think they tried.

Danny Kerr should receive a Logie nomination.

Who at AFL House decides what varities of colours the umps will wear?.

The calling team of Healy, Carey and Grivas makes the 9 Friday Night Team look like amateurs.
 
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#18
I think your list has gone forward to go backwards. :eek:
Undoubtedly one of the best spines in the AFL, however your list is not suited to Subiaco oval.
The midfield lacks pace and hard running ability. It certainly has class but Bell can't be expected to do it all. In all fairness DJ was sorely missed.

I realize that J Carr and H Black were recruited for that reason, H Black has been very good but still is not a dominant midfielder, J Carr is no doub't best suited to a tagging role. It may be worth trading Polak for a gun onballer. Someone in the mold of a Cooney or DeLedio like type, if not available than a high pick.

Anyhow hope you guy's do make the final's, on your day could definately trouble some sides. :cool:
 
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