The difference it makes. Drafting SA kids.

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Mutineer

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When we won our two flags there was a SA vs Vic feeling to it. It was like a state or origin game.
We had the pick of the best SA talent and managed to get alot back from interstate.
I think we need to get back to that "them vs us" feeling.
You're living in the past, there's a thing called the AFL draft and a thing called the salary cap now that makes it almost impossible to accrue the best SA talent.
 

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DJ75

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This argument is generally just poor and lazy. The whole 'recruit SA kids' sounds great, but in reality would be absolutely terrible.

Let's look at the drafts from 2010 onwards and see who we drafted and who was the next SA kid drafted.

2010

Picked B Smith (SA). Jarryd Lyons (Vic) our next pick when the next selected from SA was Luke Davis.

Smith correct pick
Lyons the better pick
= 1 for SA, 1 for Non SA

2011

Picked S Kerridge (VIC). Could have picked A Forster (SA). Meh nothing lost. Then we picked up Mitch Grigg, Nick Joyce, CEY. All SA.

This is a zero draft. All terrible picks. No better SA players available.

2012

Picked Sam Siggins. Next SA player Kaiden brand. Then picked Rory Atkins (Vic). No SA player picked after

Atkins better than any SA player left.
= 1 for non SA

2013

Picked Matt Crouch. Next SA based player - Sean Lemmens. Picked Riley Knight (SA).

M Crouch MUCH better than the next SA pick. Knight an ok pick. No credit though.

= 1 for Non SA

2014

Picked Jake Lever (Vic). Next SA player - Sam Durdin. Picked Harrison Wigg (SA). Picked Mitch McGovern (WA). Next SA player - Caleb Daniel. Picked Harry Dear (Vic). Next SA player - None.

Lever>>>Durdin. Wigg a loss. McGovern and Caleb Daniel about equal in ability. Dear a zero.

= 2 for non SA

2015

Picked Milera (SA). Picked Tom Doedee. Next SA player - Ryan Burton.

Doedee>>Burton.
= 1 for Non SA

2016

Picked Jordan Gallucci (Vic). Next SA player - Will Hayward. Picked Myles Poholke (Vic). Next SA player - Lewis Young. Picked Elliot Himmelberg. Next SA - Willie Rioli/Jack Graham.

Hayward>>Gallucci. Poholke/Young nil all. Himmelberg/Graham, could argue Graham better, but I actually think marginal.
= 2 for SA

2017

Picked D Fogarty (SA) First SA kid picked. Nothing much available around this pick either.

Nil all.

2018

Picked Chayce Jones (TAS). Next best SA kid - J Hately. After that Jez McLennan. Doesn't look like there was much of a choice really.

Jones V Hately?? We have both now so nil all.

2019

Picked F McAsey (VIC). Could have picked D Stephens. After that picked Schoenberg (SA) anyway.

Stephens over McAsey? Maybe at this stage, but we were drafting to rebuild a spine, so nil all.

2020

Picked Thilthorpe (SA kid). Looks good, but much still to play out.


The end result?

SA based picks = 3 points for better selection if we went that way.
Non SA based picks = 6 points for being the better choice.


So yeh, if we went SA based only, we would be worse off.
 

AFC3000

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I've always thought top end talent is what you aim for.

I've got little interest in splitting say pick 7 to slide back into the teens and get the next best SA kid, but if there is a gun SA kid available at 5, do more to position ourselves for those picks, over pay a little to move up and get them.

I like DJ75's post above, there is very little we can do if we've got maybe pick 12, the best SA kids are top 5 and then the next best is in the late teens/20s.
 

Rags_118

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This argument is generally just poor and lazy. The whole 'recruit SA kids' sounds great, but in reality would be absolutely terrible.

Let's look at the drafts from 2010 onwards and see who we drafted and who was the next SA kid drafted.


A couple of points of disagreement.

Caleb Daniel, WB B&F and AA >>>>>>> Mitch McGovern.

Dylan Stephens was picked at 5 before McAsey at 6. Next SA boys were Kozzy Pickett at 12 and Will Day at 13. With the benefit of hindsight we may have picked Vic Caleb Sarong (Pick 8) or Will Day over McAsey.
 

Mutineer

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This argument is generally just poor and lazy. The whole 'recruit SA kids' sounds great, but in reality would be absolutely terrible.

Let's look at the drafts from 2010 onwards and see who we drafted and who was the next SA kid drafted.


A couple of points of disagreement.

Caleb Daniel, WB B&F and AA >>>>>>> Mitch McGovern.

Dylan Stephens was picked at 5 before McAsey at 6. Next SA boys were Kozzy Pickett at 12 and Will Day at 13. With the benefit of hindsight we may have picked Vic Caleb Sarong (Pick 8) or Will Day over McAsey.
Dylan Stephens was available to us with our original 1st pick (4 after the AFL's GCS priority pick) but obviously McAsey was our target hence us swapping picks with GWS (4 for 6 & GWS 2020 1st) confident that McAsey would still be available. GWS 2020 pick ultimately landed us Luke Pedlar didn't it?
 

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Clayton Lamb

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would you swap them?
Objectively, yes. It really cant be said the Crows had a 'win' by choosing Doedee over Burton. Both are very talented, however Doedee appears more injury prone than even Burton, and whilst Burton has been playing AFL games, Doedee's been in the SANFL or Rehab centre.
 

mistylake

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This argument is generally just poor and lazy. The whole 'recruit SA kids' sounds great, but in reality would be absolutely terrible.

Let's look at the drafts from 2010 onwards and see who we drafted and who was the next SA kid drafted.

2010

Picked B Smith (SA). Jarryd Lyons (Vic) our next pick when the next selected from SA was Luke Davis.

Smith correct pick
Lyons the better pick
= 1 for SA, 1 for Non SA

2011

Picked S Kerridge (VIC). Could have picked A Forster (SA). Meh nothing lost. Then we picked up Mitch Grigg, Nick Joyce, CEY. All SA.

This is a zero draft. All terrible picks. No better SA players available.

2012

Picked Sam Siggins. Next SA player Kaiden brand. Then picked Rory Atkins (Vic). No SA player picked after

Atkins better than any SA player left.
= 1 for non SA

2013

Picked Matt Crouch. Next SA based player - Sean Lemmens. Picked Riley Knight (SA).

M Crouch MUCH better than the next SA pick. Knight an ok pick. No credit though.

= 1 for Non SA

2014

Picked Jake Lever (Vic). Next SA player - Sam Durdin. Picked Harrison Wigg (SA). Picked Mitch McGovern (WA). Next SA player - Caleb Daniel. Picked Harry Dear (Vic). Next SA player - None.

Lever>>>Durdin. Wigg a loss. McGovern and Caleb Daniel about equal in ability. Dear a zero.

= 2 for non SA

2015

Picked Milera (SA). Picked Tom Doedee. Next SA player - Ryan Burton.

Doedee>>Burton.
= 1 for Non SA

2016

Picked Jordan Gallucci (Vic). Next SA player - Will Hayward. Picked Myles Poholke (Vic). Next SA player - Lewis Young. Picked Elliot Himmelberg. Next SA - Willie Rioli/Jack Graham.

Hayward>>Gallucci. Poholke/Young nil all. Himmelberg/Graham, could argue Graham better, but I actually think marginal.
= 2 for SA

2017

Picked D Fogarty (SA) First SA kid picked. Nothing much available around this pick either.

Nil all.

2018

Picked Chayce Jones (TAS). Next best SA kid - J Hately. After that Jez McLennan. Doesn't look like there was much of a choice really.

Jones V Hately?? We have both now so nil all.

2019

Picked F McAsey (VIC). Could have picked D Stephens. After that picked Schoenberg (SA) anyway.

Stephens over McAsey? Maybe at this stage, but we were drafting to rebuild a spine, so nil all.

2020

Picked Thilthorpe (SA kid). Looks good, but much still to play out.


The end result?

SA based picks = 3 points for better selection if we went that way.
Non SA based picks = 6 points for being the better choice.


So yeh, if we went SA based only, we would be worse off.
How about as every pick is taken in the first 2 rounds, whichever team is next in line from the draftees home state, they get first right of refusal. And can use points like the father son system but no discounting by 20%. 3rd round and on remains as is.
 

DJ75

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How about as every pick is taken in the first 2 rounds, whichever team is next in line from the draftees home state, they get first right of refusal. And can use points like the father son system but no discounting by 20%. 3rd round and on remains as is.
Not sure I would want anything like that. The VFL would not be able to put in a rule that doesn't end up of significant benefit to the Victorian teams, so I'd rather it not be touched at all.
 

MarcusP2

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How about as every pick is taken in the first 2 rounds, whichever team is next in line from the draftees home state, they get first right of refusal. And can use points like the father son system but no discounting by 20%. 3rd round and on remains as is.
A terrible idea as we would not be able to draft the best players at each draft pick.
 

DJ75

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Objectively, yes. It really cant be said the Crows had a 'win' by choosing Doedee over Burton. Both are very talented, however Doedee appears more injury prone than even Burton, and whilst Burton has been playing AFL games, Doedee's been in the SANFL or Rehab centre.
Doedee is the better player. That's all I based it on.
 

hey shorty

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Objectively, yes. It really cant be said the Crows had a 'win' by choosing Doedee over Burton. Both are very talented, however Doedee appears more injury prone than even Burton, and whilst Burton has been playing AFL games, Doedee's been in the SANFL or Rehab centre.
Umm

Burton isn't exactly injury free is he.
 

Redline

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I've always thought top end talent is what you aim for.

I've got little interest in splitting say pick 7 to slide back into the teens and get the next best SA kid, but if there is a gun SA kid available at 5, do more to position ourselves for those picks, over pay a little to move up and get them.

I like DJ75's post above, there is very little we can do if we've got maybe pick 12, the best SA kids are top 5 and then the next best is in the late teens/20s.

Agreed, premierships are won with a couple of guns, half a dozen top quality players and the rest are role players. It is 100% about topend talent.
 

Mr_Moogle

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If this thread was any more premature it would be prescribed medication
I think people may be reading a little too much into the 2020 draft. It's entirely possible we sided with SA talent purely because the recruiters got to see more of the SA boys playing in 2020 as opposed to the Vic boys who played less due to covid lockdowns in Victoria.

For me personally I have no issues targeting SA players as long as we don't betray our talent order. I don't want us taking less talented players out of insecurity about player retention.
 

Sanders

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I think people may be reading a little too much into the 2020 draft. It's entirely possible we sided with SA talent purely because the recruiters got to see more of the SA boys playing in 2020 as opposed to the Vic boys who played less due to covid lockdowns in Victoria.

For me personally I have no issues targeting SA players as long as we don't betray our talent order. I don't want us taking less talented players out of insecurity about player retention.
good clubs retain players

we are not, and haven’t been a good club.

stop being a sh*t show and things will improve. Just think how embarrassing the crouch & STK thing is.

local players will leave a shitty situation too
 

Sanders

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I hope so but we seem to be bad at player retention even when the team is playing good footy.
i think being a crap hole is a lot more than the onfield

it started with Trigg.
  • not caring about supporters. Clicks
  • As far as the eye can see
  • Tippett
  • Sanctions
  • Rendell
  • Camp
  • Esports, baseball (leveraging our expertise!!!!)
we had a monopoly, an annoying little brother club, and became so arrogant we made Stevie from marketing our CEO.

we were so complacent & corpulent that we would have made Nero take fiddle lessons from King George III

then came expansion, free agency and we were ill-prepared for any real off field competition

we started making excuses, clubs started picking off our players, we whinged about imaginary go-home factors etc

we became a football second corporation

and it’s snowballed downhill since then

I mean fu**, we got so full of our self importance we made our greatest ever player feel unwelcome, then instead of getting a wake up call - we had a board member plant a hatchet piece with her journalist husband in the daily press

that’s the sh*t we need to fix

I’d argue that Adelaide oval was one of the worst things to happen to us. It was a goldmine that made a complacent club feel like it could do wrong again

in a year of COVID we are again, like expansion, free agency etc the worst placed club to ride out disruption

Competition in all forms is survival of the fittest, best able to adapt to change, and that is not us

retention will improve when we sort out what matters

#FootyFirst
#RealFootyCeo
 

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