Analysis The Disciples of Daniel the Diminutive, elite footballer

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bobs head soup

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Think those arguing that CDs role has significantly changed of late are clutching at straws.

He only ever went deep as a reinforcement when the opposition kept the ball in their front half and won repeat entries.

The reason he hasn't been exposed deep as much is because our core defence is not breaking down.
 

Mattdougie

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And that is why he is a liability

when Isolated he is useless andIsn’t fast enough to get back and cover on the turnover.

exactly the same thing a few teams did to him last year and he was horrible
 
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Mattdougie

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Well I’m certainly not arguing he has a ‘new role’, so let me make that clear.

I think the only time you could say Daniel could be considered a ‘liability’ is when we dohave the ball. The heat map doesn’t show that, obviously.

He went through a long spell of taking most of the kick ins and seemed to be to go for risky 30m targets. In that same spell he was also getting caught out on much bigger opponents, often really deep inside 50.

That is no longer happening. Something has changed hasn’t it. I’d say his game has changed a little. The team defence has also changed in that it is a much more cohesive unit.

Nothing too controversial in what I’ve said there is there?
Reassess?
 

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dogwatch

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No lol

VERY quiet in here this week

Guess the brave ones only turn up after wins. Not shocked all MIA
Nice try ... 🎣

... but there are approx 25,000 threads on the WB board and nearly all of them are pretty quiet.

Like most of the other 25,000 there was no particular reason to re-visit this thread because it's been discussed at length. Several times over in fact. And for most of us here it's now a non-issue.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but I LOL'd because it was so predictable. We all have our favourite topics.

IMO Daniel's the least of our problems (no pun intended).
 

cecil

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I'm still with MD. We struggle matching up on small and mid-sized forwards, and its amplified by our structure having both JJ and Daniel as "offensive defenders." We don't need two with Wood, Crozier and Keath all quite good 2 way defenders, and benefited late last year by having a more lock-down defender instead of Daniel.

While people will likely say JJ should be under the pump, I think he offers unique traits for our team and is reasonably underrated (Not an A grader, but a solid B+ role player). I'd plug Duryea back into the back 6 when he's fit, and play Daniel further up the ground.
 

Mattdougie

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Nice try ... 🎣

... but there are approx 25,000 threads on the WB board and nearly all of them are pretty quiet.

Like most of the other 25,000 there was no particular reason to re-visit this thread because it's been discussed at length. Several times over in fact. And for most of us here it's now a non-issue.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but I LOL'd because it was so predictable. We all have our favourite topics.

IMO Daniel's the least of our problems (no pun intended).
But there was a reason to discuss it again last week?

Hmmmm ok :)

Daniel himself is not the issue it’s Bevs inability or denial to admit that against The better teams or team with a plan Caleb does not help in the backline. When teams let us play our way, and that’s generally bottom four teams, he looks good but is surmise most would playing a plus One rule in a dominate team.

I don’t dislike him as a player but he be up for trade if was on me. Caleb and McLean to Adelaide for Macasey.
 

dogwatch

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But there was a reason to discuss it again last week?

Hmmmm ok :)
We all have our favourite topics. ;)

Daniel himself is not the issue it’s Bevs inability or denial to admit that against The better teams or team with a plan Caleb does not help in the backline. When teams let us play our way, and that’s generally bottom four teams, he looks good but is surmise most would playing a plus One rule in a dominate team.

I don’t dislike him as a player but he be up for trade if was on me. Caleb and McLean to Adelaide for Macasey.
Fair comment. I don't agree but you already know that.

I do agree with part of what you say - he's not suited to one-on-ones but that's not how we try to play. When that game falls apart (like it did tonight) it's not a great look but that look applies to others in defence too. For Daniel to fit anywhere in the 22 we have to be playing a disciplined game. That's not too much to ask of modern footballers. Our youth and inexperience probably didn't help in that regard tonight and the fact that we got smashed in the centre clearances early on.

I'd be fine-tuning our system and how we apply ourselves to it long before considering whether to offload Daniel.

If we did decide to offload him I think the swap you suggest is a realistic one. That's another thing I agree with you on (should I be worried?)
 

Charlie Bucket

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But there was a reason to discuss it again last week?

Hmmmm ok :)

Daniel himself is not the issue it’s Bevs inability or denial to admit that against The better teams or team with a plan Caleb does not help in the backline. When teams let us play our way, and that’s generally bottom four teams, he looks good but is surmise most would playing a plus One rule in a dominate team.

I don’t dislike him as a player but he be up for trade if was on me. Caleb and McLean to Adelaide for Macasey.
It’s over MD. Stop pushing sh*t up hill. CD elite in his role. Win, lose or draw. Would have to be a few cents short in the dollar to suggest a loss to Carlton (good team? 😂) changes that.

Thanks for the laugh MD.
 

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Mattdougie

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I don’t really know what I’ve said that you are taking issue with.

I thought your point previously was that his role had changed along with his upturn in form.

What’s your argument this time?
Come on mantis you are better than that. I said new role once to bait the fishies and did they bite??? Lol

All I said is in our winsCaleb got slot more ball between the 30-60mts from oppo goal than in the first two games.
Watch them again and tell me that isn’t true?

now last night the blues showed the exact blueprint to beat us(same them and the Suns did last year). Push everyone up and isolate our backs one on one. Don’t leave them free. Then surge forward and our slow midfield cannot keep up.

This isolation basically makes Caleb the most redundant player in the AFL as he is poor one on one, gets outmarked easily due to his height and far from fast. This is not his fault but the method we use.

many have said everyone else has to play their role for him to preform so they admit if they don’t he doesn’t work. We will continue to beat poor sides and poorly coaches sides but when it matters we aren’t beating anyone good with Caleb back
 

LondonBulldog

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It’s over MD. Stop pushing sh*t up hill. CD elite in his role. Win, lose or draw. Would have to be a few cents short in the dollar to suggest a loss to Carlton (good team? 😂) changes that.

Thanks for the laugh MD.
From what I see in this post it about 50/50 so don't try and sound like a know it all (questioning people brain capacity).
CD elite? His height limitations and 1 on 1 ability for a start means he will never be elite in a HBF role. If you try to say that not his role, that's garbage, a HBF needs that ability to beat opponents when one out.
As I have said before there is a role for CD in the side. Play him HF and once the balls is bounced he has the licence to run and create throughout the whole ground, delivering to forwards.
Yet everyone sees things differently and you should respect other peoples views as well.
 

Charlie Bucket

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From what I see in this post it about 50/50 so don't try and sound like a know it all (questioning people brain capacity).
CD elite? His height limitations and 1 on 1 ability for a start means he will never be elite in a HBF role. If you try to say that not his role, that's garbage, a HBF needs that ability to beat opponents when one out.
As I have said before there is a role for CD in the side. Play him HF and once the balls is bounced he has the licence to run and create throughout the whole ground, delivering to forwards.
Yet everyone sees things differently and you should respect other peoples views as well.
You’re blinded by his height LB. As a lot of people are. CD is pretty good one on one for his size and holds his own more often than not, on the rare occasion he’s caught out or when coming in to an aerial contest from distance. Which seems to be his go.

Using last nights game to highlight why he shouldn’t be played in the back half is a knucklehead exercise. You can have a differing opinion, that’s ok. But if we were using last nights game as an example, you can’t ignore every other defenders who was poor when caught out one on one. When a team drops their bundle and we don’t adjust, as we did last night, they all look bad. How many of Carltons goals were kicked because of poor one on one defending? Cordy, Williams, Wood even. All were poor in contests last night. Do they all get dropped? Or do we understand that sometimes, when the system fails, our defence struggles Whether it’s CD, Wood, Cordy, Williams etc.
The point of difference with CD is that he offers a lot more than what the others do. They can all have bad games, but CD still has an influence. The same can’t be said for the others when our systems fail.

As for playing him higher up, you can’t just start him forward and have him roam around the ground and expect the same influence as he has now. He’d be tied down by a defender. This gets bandied around heaps and it’s a real head scratcher.
If it was that easy, you would just play English in the goal square and he would kick lots of goals because he’s tall and will mark the ball. Too simplistic LB. Sorry.
 

LondonBulldog

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You’re blinded by his height LB. As a lot of people are. CD is pretty good one on one for his size and holds his own more often than not, on the rare occasion he’s caught out or when coming in to an aerial contest from distance. Which seems to be his go.

Using last nights game to highlight why he shouldn’t be played in the back half is a knucklehead exercise. You can have a differing opinion, that’s ok. But if we were using last nights game as an example, you can’t ignore every other defenders who was poor when caught out one on one. When a team drops their bundle and we don’t adjust, as we did last night, they all look bad. How many of Carltons goals were kicked because of poor one on one defending? Cordy, Williams, Wood even. All were poor in contests last night. Do they all get dropped? Or do we understand that sometimes, when the system fails, our defence struggles Whether it’s CD, Wood, Cordy, Williams etc.
The point of difference with CD is that he offers a lot more than what the others do. They can all have bad games, but CD still has an influence. The same can’t be said for the others when our systems fail.

As for playing him higher up, you can’t just start him forward and have him roam around the ground and expect the same influence as he has now. He’d be tied down by a defender. This gets bandied around heaps and it’s a real head scratcher.
If it was that easy, you would just play English in the goal square and he would kick lots of goals because he’s tall and will mark the ball. Too simplistic LB. Sorry.
My opinion on him as a defender is not based on one game. I agree that some of the 1 on 1 he loses so would others in the team, Cordy is terrible 1 on 1 for example. It will be interesting to see the way Bevo goes when Duryea is ready to come back in. For what its worth CD could play the role Hunter plays and I still think we could do with class foot skills and decision making going inside 50. Time will tell, remember he is not foreign to the HF role as he played it until 2019.
 

Mantis Toboggan

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Come on mantis you are better than that. I said new role once to bait the fishies and did they bite??? Lol

All I said is in our winsCaleb got slot more ball between the 30-60mts from oppo goal than in the first two games.
Watch them again and tell me that isn’t true?

now last night the blues showed the exact blueprint to beat us(same them and the Suns did last year). Push everyone up and isolate our backs one on one. Don’t leave them free. Then surge forward and our slow midfield cannot keep up.

This isolation basically makes Caleb the most redundant player in the AFL as he is poor one on one, gets outmarked easily due to his height and far from fast. This is not his fault but the method we use.

many have said everyone else has to play their role for him to preform so they admit if they don’t he doesn’t work. We will continue to beat poor sides and poorly coaches sides but when it matters we aren’t beating anyone good with Caleb back
If you’re saying things just to make people bite then it’s hard for me to know what points you genuinely believe and what is just bait.

You’ve said that CD at halfback can work against the weaker teams but not against good teams. If anything, doesn’t that justify his selection there against Carlton? It seems you’re undermining your own argument on that one.

I don’t really know why you’ve picked my comment to address when I wasn’t necessarily disagreeing with you in the first place.
 

Mattdougie

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If you’re saying things just to make people bite then it’s hard for me to know what points you genuinely believe and what is just bait.

You’ve said that CD at halfback can work against the weaker teams but not against good teams. If anything, doesn’t that justify his selection there against Carlton? It seems you’re undermining your own argument on that one.

I don’t really know why you’ve picked my comment to address when I wasn’t necessarily disagreeing with you in the first place.
I said good teams or teams well coached against us

Teague(who imo is no good) has clearly outcoached Bev two years in a row now with.
But now the Aints and Blues have shown how easy it is to Dismantle us id imagine That’s the way tams will all play us now if possible for them to do.

It now looks like if the team plays well Caleb does but if they don’t he doesn’t. Hopefully Duryea is back ASAP and takes the spot and Caleb can be pushed future up the ground because with him back there we aren’t winning squat
 

Charlie Bucket

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My opinion on him as a defender is not based on one game. I agree that some of the 1 on 1 he loses so would others in the team, Cordy is terrible 1 on 1 for example. It will be interesting to see the way Bevo goes when Duryea is ready to come back in. For what its worth CD could play the role Hunter plays and I still think we could do with class foot skills and decision making going inside 50. Time will tell, remember he is not foreign to the HF role as he played it until 2019.
Fair enough.

I agree, he could play a number of roles in the team. Not sure of his impact up fwd though. The two factors you need to consider are his lack of height and his lack of pace. Having a direct opponent would limit what he can do due to these two things.

Wing could definitely work but the coaches obviously feel he’s more important down back.
 

Wizard17

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Interesting what we do if/when we get Ewan Macpherson. Pretty much does the same general across half back role. Maybe he might be able to release Daniel higher up the ground?
 

immortalmike

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I feel like Caleb has actually gotten better at his role. His tackles stick now, he cuts off leads and he uses and handles the ball better. Kudos to him. He still scares me when isolated but honestly so does JJ and I'm happy to cop the good with the bad with him.

Last year he was pure offense. This year he's not actually terrible defensively. I'm good with this
 

dogwatch

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I feel like Caleb has actually gotten better at his role. His tackles stick now, he cuts off leads and he uses and handles the ball better. Kudos to him. He still scares me when isolated but honestly so does JJ and I'm happy to cop the good with the bad with him.

Last year he was pure offense. This year he's not actually terrible defensively. I'm good with this
Good point. I feel scared when any of the defenders are isolated. One on one is not the forte of any of them.
 

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