The Disillusioned Thread

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

I dont usually like to post such negative stuff, but with us being rumoured to be after Varcoe and Greenwood, even after seeing what NQR pickups like White, Lynch and Young are actually worth, it makes me think that the people in charge have lost the plot.
Why do we keep trying to pick up role players while losing stars?
The quality of our list has been decimated and those talking about unproven young talent like they are superstars (Kennedy, Broomhead, Thomas, Seedsman, Williams etc) are ignoring the fact that these guys are likely to never make A grade status, let alone become 200 game players. The simple reality is more young draftees dont make it, than do.

Our strategy has been poor, and in my opinion, if this all goes pear shaped and we back down on the Beams trade, and give him to Brisbane, it is time for change. Not just Buckley either, IM talking a sweep through starting with Eddie. Not that I haven't loved his efforts, but there is a time to move aside and that time is now. What better way to give our club a fresh new identity than by installing new leadership from the top? It seems Pert is not liked by the players. Lose him too. He comes across as far too corporate for a role as the head of a football club.

I don't know if others feel it too, but Collingwood as a club, as a brand, it just feels stale. I'm sick of being so publicised and wish we could just be a quiet bohemoth looking after our own backyard.

 

[Smoky]

Varcoe is 26...

Greenwood just came 3rd in North's B&F after their best season in 10 years...



and we are getting them for next to nothing...

Mature bodies and minds recruited to the club...


I vote IN.

 

[Seedsfan]

Broomhead will lets just hope he is a one club player

 

[Temploar]

Varcoe is 26...

Greenwood just came 3rd in North's B&F after their best season in 10 years...



and we are getting them for next to nothing...

Mature bodies and minds recruited to the club...


I vote IN.

I think Greenwood would shine for us, let's get him ASAP.

 

[Seedsfan]

You are right in a sense that we need to stop targeting role players if we want to trade in a bloke trade in someone who makes a big impact on our side and makes us better for having them

 

[ThisIsJake]

Well I am extremely excited about our list and I don't think pickups like White have set us back at all, they aren't on much coin and we haven't got them at the expense of stars at all.

Greenwood is not a role player either he is a B+ midfielder.

 

[Smoky]

Well I am extremely excited about our list and I don't think pickups like White have set us back at all, they aren't on much coin and we haven't got them at the expense of stars at all.

Greenwood is not a role player either he is a B+ midfielder.

Correction...

He was a B+ player.

























Now...



He is a Collingwood Player.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Well I am extremely excited about our list and I don't think pickups like White have set us back at all, they aren't on much coin and we haven't got them at the expense of stars at all.

Greenwood is not a role player either he is a B+ midfielder.

No he's not. If he was he wouldn't have struggled to get a game for North for 6 years. If he was B plus then North would have signed him up quick smart. There is a reason he is not getting offered 450k by North. Instead of looking at his stats, watch him play. He butchers the ball completely. He is honest as the day is long. BUt a midfield of him and Adams will have these boards firing up come the conclusion of round 1 next year. He is not quality. We need quality. I dont understand how so many around here are blind to this.

 

[Wooljay]

Why do people complain so much about Free Agent pickups and trades like White?

They cost us nothing but cap space which would be getting used anyways, and are worth a punt at little cost.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

No he's not. If he was he wouldn't have struggled to get a game for North for 6 years. If he was B plus then North would have signed him up quick smart. There is a reason he is not getting offered 450k by North. Instead of looking at his stats, watch him play. He butchers the ball completely. He is honest as the day is long. BUt a midfield of him and Adams will have these boards firing up come the conclusion of round 1 next year. He is not quality. We need quality. I dont understand how so many around here are blind to this.

I don't think your being 100% fair. I think the club is doing its best in a bad situation. Yes turning over premiership players isn't ideal, but I also think internally at the club, there was a greater need for a culture change than was apparent on the outside looking in.

We acquired Clint Young straight after he had a very very good Gf, Jesse White had a breakout season for the Swans, Taylor Adams is a gun and he will be a star. If you go back to prior to last year, you'd take Jesse White in a heartbeat just like all the others, the issue is these players haven't quite molded to our game style.

I think the club is doing its best and as fans that's all we can ask for

 

[Seedsfan]

Why do people complain so much about Free Agent pickups and trades like White?

They cost us nothing but cap space which would be getting used anyways, and are worth a punt at little cost.

They cost a spot on a list

 

[DRIZZT]

I dont usually like to post such negative stuff, but with us being rumoured to be after Varcoe and Greenwood, even after seeing what NQR pickups like White, Lynch and Young are actually worth, it makes me think that the people in charge have lost the plot.
Why do we keep trying to pick up role players while losing stars?
The quality of our list has been decimated and those talking about unproven young talent like they are superstars (Kennedy, Broomhead, Thomas, Seedsman, Williams etc) are ignoring the fact that these guys are likely to never make A grade status, let alone become 200 game players. The simple reality is more young draftees dont make it, than do.

Our strategy has been poor, and in my opinion, if this all goes pear shaped and we back down on the Beams trade, and give him to Brisbane, it is time for change. Not just Buckley either, IM talking a sweep through starting with Eddie. Not that I haven't loved his efforts, but there is a time to move aside and that time is now. What better way to give our club a fresh new identity than by installing new leadership from the top? It seems Pert is not liked by the players. Lose him too. He comes across as far too corporate for a role as the head of a football club.

I don't know if others feel it too, but Collingwood as a club, as a brand, it just feels stale. I'm sick of being so publicised and wish we could just be a quiet bohemoth looking after our own backyard.

s**t thread.Def sounds like you dont like to be negative!!I reckon 4 out of the 5 players you mentioned will play 200(kennedy only one im not confident on)(but if blair gets there,benken could too).And im sure weve all doubted our staff but give them a chance,we're tryin to repair all mm's damage and our injury profile has been woeful(almost on par with wet toasts over last 2 yrs)

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

s**t thread.Def sounds like you dont like to be negative!!I reckon 4 out of the 5 players you mentioned will play 200(kennedy only one im not confident on)(but if blair gets there,benken could too).And im sure weve all doubted our staff but give them a chance,we're tryin to repair all mm's damage and our injury profile has been woeful(almost on par with wet toasts over last 2 yrs)

I hope you're right, I really do, but I don't see it.
Being critical of Eddie is seemingly blasphemous around these parts. He has done his job, he has earned his statue in front of the WEstpac Centre, but its time to move on without him. As for the damage MM created, I agree that his split caused damage, but there is nothing we can do about that now. My criticism's lie in the fact we could have reloaded and gone for another shot at a flag by sticking together and maybe picking off another star like Goddard or Dal Santo. Instead we have gone the cheap option, and now we don't have enough stars.
The injuries have been woeful. BUt my worry is simply the talent on the list. It is no longer in the top 4/8/10 in the league. imo.

 

[ThisIsJake]

No he's not. If he was he wouldn't have struggled to get a game for North for 6 years. If he was B plus then North would have signed him up quick smart. There is a reason he is not getting offered 450k by North. Instead of looking at his stats, watch him play. He butchers the ball completely. He is honest as the day is long. BUt a midfield of him and Adams will have these boards firing up come the conclusion of round 1 next year. He is not quality. We need quality. I dont understand how so many around here are blind to this.

Yes he was this year, he is not a great kick but neither is our great Dane Swan or dare I say Gary Ablett. No he is not a 450k player no B+ players are but when recruiting from another club you are always going to pay overs.

We need a mature midfielder right now and he was the one available, we have cap space and he's not forcing any other players out.

He is a quality player, he has faults as all players do but he will add to us and more importantly we need him to fill an immediate void.

No downside.

 

[DRIZZT]

I hope you're right, I really do, but I don't see it.
Being critical of Eddie is seemingly blasphemous around these parts. He has done his job, he has earned his statue in front of the WEstpac Centre, but its time to move on without him. As for the damage MM created, I agree that his split caused damage, but there is nothing we can do about that now. My criticism's lie in the fact we could have reloaded and gone for another shot at a flag by sticking together and maybe picking off another star like Goddard or Dal Santo. Instead we have gone the cheap option, and now we don't have enough stars.
The injuries have been woeful. BUt my worry is simply the talent on the list. It is no longer in the top 4/8/10 in the league. imo.

Agree where your comin from(ive had similar thoughts over last few months)but still hav to disagree.Eddie has had some shockin moments of late which havnt helped our club at a public level but there wouldnt be a human on this planet that could or would do what he does for us.We were headin for top four this season until crucial injuries and tiring kids brought us undone(i know we werent convincing even though we were sittin at 8-3,but no one saw us comin home with 3-8-esp considerin our draw was easier in 2nd half then first half).We hav reloaded,we were 4/5 youngest team at start of this season.White/lynch/russell hav been failures but didnt cost much.Dont rate dal santo as a star so dont know why u named him of all people.Out of top 20 drafts this year,only 2 didnt play afl game-guess who-two top 10 drafties and both happen to be from collingwood.It took till last month of this season for our 3 first rounders from 2012 to all finally play together(grundy,kennedy and broomy).Add 5 first round draft picks to our team,also our 2nd and 3rd yr players gettin valuable game time ,i think you'll find we'll easily hav a top 6 team.Sorry for the essay,appreciate your opinion-hope ive given you some hope

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Yes he was this year, he is not a great kick but neither is our great Dane Swan or dare I say Gary Ablett. No he is not a 450k player no B+ players are but when recruiting from another club you are always going to pay overs.

We need a mature midfielder right now and he was the one available, we have cap space and he's not forcing any other players out.

He is a quality player, he has faults as all players do but he will add to us and more importantly we need him to fill an immediate void.

No downside.

I think the loss of premiership players has been over emphasized. Aside from the fact that most of the exits were more than justified by age, attitude etc...... I don't think the raw talent in our 2010 side compares to the recent sides from Geelong, Sydney, hawks etc... They were - God love them - a very solid team with only a few stars where the net result was greater than the sum of the parts due to fanatical bursts of youthful effort , tactics that worked well at the time etc......

I also think some underestimate the amount of time it'll take Bucks to modernise the way the team goes about things and create a group that can match the modern "leading teams" both in terms of fitness, skills and attitude. I'm not sure about Bucks either but give him the benefit of the doubt in the knowledge that even the best coaches can't do much without the cattle and often don't last long enough to have a hope of implementing a proper rebuild. You end up like a pollie - making decisions with your term in mind rather than the good of the country. I believe Bucks is prepared to cop some flak for the good of the club and do things properly...............that's what I'm hoping anyway.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

I agree with the op apart from the assessment of our junior talent. I believe players like, Freeman, Broomhead, Grundy, Witts, Kennedy, Karnezis, Adams, Scharenberg, etc... Could all be really good players. But if they are surrounded by potatoes like White, Young, Blair, Greenwood, etc... Then we are taking spots from players that might actually have a future and limiting our development.

Yes we need experienced guys around young players as they develop, but with Pendles, Cloke, Sidey, Reid, Maccaffer, Swan, I don't think we need many others. Cop some pain to get some gain in about three or four years. With Beams likely to go soon, we need to accept that we are not a realistic chance of a flag for at least two to three years minimum.

 

[HappyRed]

I reckon we just take a hit this year, and spend every dollar we have next year on Dangerfield. I don't mind getting some mature talent to fill gaps. But it has became a habit for Collingwood to pick up rejects (or hagard tired players.) thru the draft, e.g J. Russell, Q, Lynch

 

[Morganashlee]

I find the biggest problem we have had with our free agency picks has been our expectations. They weren't superstars, they were contributors that were seen to be able to serve a purpose.

Lynch played some good games, some average games and struggled with injuries. He suffered a broken leg and missed a large chunk of the season but the time and effort he put in to assist in developing our young forwards was fantastic. Every VFL game he was there teaching, supporting and guiding them at a time where we struggled for leaders.

Unpopular opinion here but I don't think Jesse White was the abject failure that others made him out to be. Due to our injuries he was barely able to play the role in which we recruited him for yet adapted and performed quite well at times as a second ruck. He takes a defender who otherwise would be double or triple teaming Trav and will be better in a more settled forward line structure.

Clinton Young is like the girl you spot across the room. Good from far but far from good. We were sold a bit of a lemon with the constant chatter about his taking left foot. We mustn't have heard the part about him being inaccurate, overrated and possibly passed his prime.

Despite all of their shortcomings they did provide something we desperately needed; developed bodies with experience to assist a young list during a period of transition.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. Those within the club probably would not have had these players in the plans for our next premiership, but with a list as young as ours these guys are pivotal in allowing growth and development whilst providing depth once they have been overtaken.

In regards to our young unproven talent we can only invest time and resources into them and hope they can reach the potential that saw them get drafted. The signs are good with our kids, hopefully they take the next step.

 

[DRIZZT]

I find the biggest problem we have had with our free agency picks has been our expectations. They weren't superstars, they were contributors that were seen to be able to serve a purpose.

Lynch played some good games, some average games and struggled with injuries. He suffered a broken leg and missed a large chunk of the season but the time and effort he put in to assist in developing our young forwards was fantastic. Every VFL game he was there teaching, supporting and guiding them at a time where we struggled for leaders.

Unpopular opinion here but I don't think Jesse White was the abject failure that others made him out to be. Due to our injuries he was barely able to play the role in which we recruited him for yet adapted and performed quite well at times as a second ruck. He takes a defender who otherwise would be double or triple teaming Trav and will be better in a more settled forward line structure.

Clinton Young is like the girl you spot across the room. Good from far but far from good. We were sold a bit of a lemon with the constant chatter about his taking left foot. We mustn't have heard the part about him being inaccurate, overrated and possibly passed his prime.

Despite all of their shortcomings they did provide something we desperately needed; developed bodies with experience to assist a young list during a period of transition.

Perspective is a wonderful thing. Those within the club probably would not have had these players in the plans for our next premiership, but with a list as young as ours these guys are pivotal in allowing growth and development whilst providing depth once they have been overtaken.

In regards to our young unproven talent we can only invest time and resources into them and hope they can reach the potential that saw them get drafted. The signs are good with our kids, hopefully they take the next step.

Very well said.I was so excited to get young but he's only shown glimpses.Plus we were teased in his first yr coz that rundown and tackle on armfield(think he was the scum player)showed us his ticker.Im glad I didnt see the gc game.Ive seen the replays of the dropped mark that cost us finals(cant say it did,but cant say it didnt).Good call on lynch,shame he didnt fulfill his potential but im sure what he taught our kids was invaluable.My future brother-in-law is a wet toast supporter and he loved lynch and was gutted when he came to us.I never let a chance go by to shout,"LYNCHY" to him.Noticed your a survivor fan.Dont give anything away,havnt seen latest ep yet.Havnt missed a single season yet!!!!Best reality show EVER!!!!Besides the bachelor of course

 

[Morganashlee]

Very well said.I was so excited to get young but he's only shown glimpses.Plus we were teased in his first yr coz that rundown and tackle on armfield(think he was the scum player)showed us his ticker.Im glad I didnt see the gc game.Ive seen the replays of the dropped mark that cost us finals(cant say it did,but cant say it didnt).Good call on lynch,shame he didnt fulfill his potential but im sure what he taught our kids was invaluable.My future brother-in-law is a wet toast supporter and he loved lynch and was gutted when he came to us.I never let a chance go by to shout,"LYNCHY" to him.Noticed your a survivor fan.Dont give anything away,havnt seen latest ep yet.Havnt missed a single season yet!!!!Best reality show EVER!!!!Besides the bachelor of course

I like Young his best and worst are on show in every game though. Was lucky to be overseas for the Gold Coast game, vowed never to watch it either.

To me there are 2 aspects to Free Agency; the superstars you pick up in order to win a flag or the role players who add depth. All of ours have been role players but we get seduced into thinking it's something more. It's still new, we will adapt accordingly.

Huge survivor fan, already loving this season but I won't give you any spoilers

 

[DRIZZT]

I like Young his best and worst are on show in every game though. Was lucky to be overseas for the Gold Coast game, vowed never to watch it either.

To me there are 2 aspects to Free Agency; the superstars you pick up in order to win a flag or the role players who add depth. All of ours have been role players but we get seduced into thinking it's something more. It's still new, we will adapt accordingly.

Huge survivor fan, already loving this season but I won't give you any spoilers

Agreed.We gotta get in hawks position.At the moment free agency and hawthorn is a marriage made in heaven,but yes,we'll get there.Im very bullish about our young guys and coach and sure we'll add to it next week.Without givin it to much thought-who is your favourite all time survivor???

 

[Morganashlee]

Agreed.We gotta get in hawks position.At the moment free agency and hawthorn is a marriage made in heaven,but yes,we'll get there.Im very bullish about our young guys and coach and sure we'll add to it next week.Without givin it to much thought-who is your favourite all time survivor???

The future isn't as bleak as many will have you believe.

Ozzy and Cochrane are a couple of my faves

 

[Vicky Park]

I disagree with the OP in regard to the club. Now is not the time to start chopping and changing internally and at the top (pres, admin, etc). In the recent past I may have thought otherwise, but we do not need more instability at the moment.

The events of the last two days, with the Doggies imploding, and us holding a straight line over Beams, have emphasised the importance of a strong and united club. I'm not sure we are exactly that - yet - but we are starting to sound like it, at least externally. The signs are there.

There is also currently a lot of turmoil in the AFL with regard to senior coaches, and I am concerned we will lose one of our senior assistants. Sure, they are entitled to take up a better offer, but we have had great stability in that area (with some exceptions), and loyalty shown by and to Bucks in regards to his assistants, which I see as a massive positive.

Anyway, its early morning, and I am still bouyed by yesterday's events and our handling of the Beams saga. It might also be a catalyst to generate a stronger spirit amongst the playing group. If we, the fan base, hurt when Dayne announced he wanted to leave, their hurt would have been greater. And for the players to then see the club play this out with dignity and respect - it must have a positive impact at the Westpac Centre.

I know I could not have been prouder. Its been a terrific effort by the Pies, very classy.

 

[DRIZZT]

The future isn't as bleak as many will have you believe.

Ozzy and Cochrane are a couple of my faves

They dont fool me.We'll be back in top 6 next yr,if not top four with what should be an easier draw.Im expectin a hungry young pies team next yr(similar to 2009/2010),lot depends on who we get next week and moreso less injurys.Is thomas your fav player?