The draft myth?

[Messenger]

- A top 4 team can't sign a free agent unless they lose a free agent

Oh, come on. Finish fourth and no free agents?

 

[Pessimistic]

Why is this thread dominated by Hawthorn, stop.

Because those three words naturally live together

 

[Pessimistic]

It just shows that the draft isn't the most important thing.
Development and environment is.
Look at Melbourne for example.

The onfield talent isnt spread too thin, but the off field is

Doesnt help when certain teams waste millions on off field duds

Literally millions. The afl could have the cram of the worlds coaches if they had half a brain

Maybe we could mandate each club has one coach from another country, so long as they are clean. Might help to raise profile overseas too

 

[Boxhead_31]

My head hurts, Fremantle traded their pick one, they were always gonna trade their pick one regardless if they had pick 4 or not.

Look at the draft order
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_AFL_draft
Elvis is correct Freo didn't trade the 1st draft pick, they traded the priority pick

 

[Pessimistic]

Oh, come on. Finish fourth and no free agents?

Recipe for tanking, maybe tanking a final

 

[Dez!]

Why is the solution always to hinder well run clubs?

Yep because the introduction of Free Agency was really to punish the well run clubs.

 

[Messenger]

Yep because the introduction of Free Agency was really to punish the well run clubs.

Sigh.

I was referring to suggestions on this website.

 

[beta_condition]

Yep because the introduction of Free Agency was really to punish the well run clubs.

Well actually yes in theory it spread the talent cross the league, Hawthorn would be a significantly stronger team without FA

 

[DrEvil_]

The AFL draft is meant to even out the talent between the teams but it looks to be a complete failure. The NRL has been operating without a draft and the results since 2000 seem to back this up. The NRL has had 12 different teams win the competition as compare to 8 in the AFL. The AFL has had 3 dynasties since 2000 (Hawthorn, Geelong and Lions) whereas the NRL has had none (if you exclude Melbourne for cheating the salary cap). It also feels like the AFL has more clubs mired in mediocrity with no hope of winning the competition in the foreseeable future.

Why is the draft failing to even out the competition? Is it time to get rid of the draft and let players play for whichever team they want if the club can afford them under the cap?

Yeah well the NRL is also a bunch of mindless boofheads running into each other. So random premiers are expected.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Three Dynasties didn't happen because of the draft, Brisbane had extra salary cap, Geelong had good luck with father sons, and Hawthorn peaked when GWS and Gold Coast had a monopoly on the draft and halted other teams from developing to challenge them.

>Says dynasties didn't happen because of the draft
>Says Geelong got lucky with F/S, in the draft
>Says Hawthorn got lucky because new clubs had a monopoly on kids, in the draft

http://facepalm.jpg

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Three Dynasties didn't happen because of the draft, Brisbane had extra salary cap, Geelong had good luck with father sons, and Hawthorn peaked when GWS and Gold Coast had a monopoly on the draft and halted other teams from developing to challenge them.

Look at the core of their sides. All roughly the same age, grew and matured together and stayed together.

Geelong nailed '99 and '01 drafts, Hawthorn nailed '01 and '04 I'm not sure with Brisbane but if you look at that 3peat side, the core, Voss, Aker, Lappin, Black and Leppa, just off the top of my head were all roughly the same age.

North in the 90s, a lot of their side came through the u/19s together under Pagan and then played and stayed under him in the seniors.

Of course the talent still has to be initially identified and then developed.

If you start with the likes of Scarlett, Harley and Milburn, it took Geelong the best part of a decade to win a flag, 4 or 5 years to put it together and then another 6 years to mature and win the thing. Hawthorn a bit less with '08 but I think that was more to do with Clarko, the real maturity of Hawthorn has been the last 4 years and yes, through good luck rather than good management, they hit their peak at the perfect time with the compromised drafts. They have also been the masters of recruiting ready to go players to fill holes and getting players to play their roles.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Why is this thread dominated by Hawthorn, stop.

Maybe there should be some sort of cap on posts per Hawthorn supporter, surely there is something that can be done to stifle this domination and spread it out a bit more.

 

[100action]

The draft is just one part of many (salary cap, FD spending soft cap, AFL distribution fund), therefore you cannot pin the failure of equalization on one measure. The draft's impact is also being overestimated by the OP due to certain clubs consistently making poor choices and/or having poor development.

I feel things were going in the right direction when the AFL was planning to introduce a cap on FD spending. This all went down the gurgler when free agency was introduced, it is clear (as was obvious to many prior to its introduction) that certain clubs are destination clubs. To align free agency with equalization the team getting the free agent should have points docked from their draft picks equal to the compensation for the team losing the agent (a 25% discount can be applied to encourage player movement).

As it currently stands right now, certain clubs get the 'best' free agents at no cost, the compensation provided to the club losing the free agent pushes back the picks of every other club. In effect the destination club gets the net benefit of the combined marginal loss from every other club being moved back in the draft.

Barring removing free agency all together (AFLPA will successfully block this), this is the best method to once again equalize things.

St Kilda, Melbourne, North, WB not being able to win a premiership post 2000 is concerning to say the least.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

no

A non Vic team - an expansion team ideally
Reality is public doesn't want to see Hawks again either.

I do, if the Cats can't win it then I want to see a 4 peat, at least it will be done without the help of the stupid challenge system from 90 years ago.

I never thought I'd live to see a side do a 3peat and then Brisbane popped up 15 years ago, I wanted them to win again in '04 to shut mouthy Collingwood supporters up who were carrying on about it at the time.

I know they grind our gears and have ****ed us up over the years, but if Geelong aren't winning it, I like watching excellent football sides playing excellent footy. If only the shit stain of a gf from '13 could be erased then it would be even better.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The draft gives you access to 18 year olds. I think people expect it to be much faster acting than it is.

Essendon certainly thought so too and wanted to speed the process up a bit.

 

[clobba]

no

A non Vic team - an expansion team ideally
Reality is public doesn't want to see Hawks again either.

wouldn't worry me if they get another

 

[DrEvil_]

St Kilda, Melbourne, North, WB not being able to win a premiership post 2000 is concerning to say the least.

Saints a bounce and a goalpost away from 2 flags, WB three prelims in a row.

 

[krisholio14]

You cannot contrive 18 different flag winners in 18 years. There are always going to be too many variables to get even close to this.

I look at the effectiveness of the draft in relation to top 4 appearances rather than flags or even Grand Finals. No matter how good your team is, once you get to the finals, anything can happen, and often does. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure every team bar the new ones have finished in the top four at least once. Actually, apart from Richmond, I'm pretty sure they all have more than once.

 

[mike123]

>Says dynasties didn't happen because of the draft
>Says Geelong got lucky with F/S, in the draft
>Says Hawthorn got lucky because new clubs had a monopoly on kids, in the draft

http://facepalm.jpg

Thats not the regular draft system that's the compromised draft.

The regular low clubs get good picks system work.

 

[Debris]

You also set the standard of equalisation as premierships.

We've discussed any number of causative factors that explain performance differences and others have raised issues about the NRL structure.

I'd be interested in your solution, though.

The point is not that the AFL has not managed equalization. It has done so pretty well and I think the reason for it is the salary cap. You really don't need anything else, particularly in a game where an individual player has so little influence on the outcome.

My original point was not that the competition was not evened out, it is that you do not need the draft to do it and I have posted my reasons as to what negatives it has and the benefits of removing it. Do you think that the competition would become massively imbalanced without it?

 

[krisholio14]

The point is not that the AFL has not managed equalization. It has done so pretty well and I think the reason for it is the salary cap. You really don't need anything else, particularly in a game where an individual player has so little influence on the outcome.

My original point was not that the competition was not evened out, it is that you do not need the draft to do it and I have posted my reasons as to what negatives it has and the benefits of removing it. Do you think that the competition would become massively imbalanced without it?

You already have a situation where 'destination clubs' are taking the cream of FA's (or so it's said) from the 'lowly clubs'.

At least with the draft all clubs have the ability to get some talent to their club. It's up to the club from there to nurture that talent and provide an environment that the players they draft will want to remain in. As well as the fact that if a player asks to be traded, there is an opportunity to get some value back.

 

[MistyAvalon]

You don't think they'd welcome a history making team?

we sure would though!!!!

 

[Debris]

You already have a situation where 'destination clubs' are taking the cream of FA's (or so it's said) from the 'lowly clubs'.

At least with the draft all clubs have the ability to get some talent to their club. It's up to the club from there to nurture that talent and provide an environment that the players they draft will want to remain in. As well as the fact that if a player asks to be traded, there is an opportunity to get some value back.

I don't think that is true. All the top draft picks would just leave their club once their rookie contract is up if that was the case.

 

[Underdog]

Warriors and Cowboys say hi.

Fair call, but I still maintain that there is a far wider level of audience in the AFL than NRL. If the NRL had a team or two in Vic, SA and WA you may be able to better compare

 

[krisholio14]

I don't think that is true. All the top draft picks would just leave their club once their rookie contract is up if that was the case.

A lot of them are moving these days though. If not after their first contract, then after their second.