The draft myth?

[beta_condition]

Hodge was a priority pick. Roughead was a priority pick. I don't think you are grasping that. And I don't know I can explain this to you more simply. Yes you had to trade into Freo to get that priority pick from them but it is still a priority pick.

I am not basing Hawthorns success on priority picks at all. Hawks have done everything you would want from a team as the system in play at the time allowed.

" how hard is it to line it all up and base it upon ladder position? But no, the AFL have had to try and be too clever by half and introduce fluid and discretionary priority picks" "But Hodge and Roughead and to a lesser extent Ellis as priority picks is too much. When they nailed their picks around the priority picks, is it any wonder they are the juggernaut they are now"

Now listen carefully all those players were the first selected regardless off the priority rule they were always going to that club

 

[Elvis]

Incorrect. Hodge was the National No.1 pick. Fremantle traded No.1 pick for Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin.

I'm like a lone voice in here. Freos pick 1 that Hawks traded Croad and McPharlin for, was a priority pick. Freo as they finished with the wooden spoon were rewarded with the priority pick. At that time priority picks were awarded prior to the start of the first round of the national draft. So Freo had the priority pick which was 1. Plus pick 4 after Saints and West Coast used their priority picks. Without the priority picks, pick 4 would have become pick one ... and more likely than not Hodge, Ball or Judd would have worn a Dockers jumper.

 

[Debris]

That's fair. I'd suggest it isn't "broken" and that if we want clubs to get better then continually manipulating the system to achieve an expected outcome is likely to fail.

Do you think the draft will work to equalize clubs if the AFL stops "manipulating" it? I think I have almost convinced myself that the AFL just keeps it going to give casual fans hope and know that in reality it has basically zero impact on improving a club.

 

[Elvis]

" how hard is it to line it all up and base it upon ladder position? But no, the AFL have had to try and be too clever by half and introduce fluid and discretionary priority picks" "But Hodge and Roughead and to a lesser extent Ellis as priority picks is too much. When they nailed their picks around the priority picks, is it any wonder they are the juggernaut they are now"

Now listen carefully all those players were the first selected regardless off the priority rule they were always going to that club

OK you don't seem capable to understand so I am going to stop trying to explain it to you. But without priority picks, how would Hawthorn have landed Roughead, Buddy and Jordan Lewis in the same draft?

 

[beta_condition]

OK you don't seem capable to understand so I am going to stop trying to explain it to you. But without priority picks, how would Hawthorn have landed Roughead, Buddy and Jordan Lewis in the same draft?

I'm not the one which is failing to understand.

Without priority picks Hawthorn would of had picks 2 and 4 meaning will still end up with Franklin and Roughead, with no Lewis in the team Josh Kennedy gets more game time and stays a Hawk.

 

[beta_condition]

Plus pick 4 after Saints and West Coast used their priority picks. Without the priority picks, pick 4 would have become pick one ... and more likely than not Hodge, Ball or Judd would have worn a Dockers jumper.

My head hurts, Fremantle traded their pick one, they were always gonna trade their pick one regardless if they had pick 4 or not.

 

[Kwality]

Is it really that bad?

How do those stats compare to pre-2000? How do they compare to other team sports like Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Cricket?

It doesn't seem that bad.

Since 1999,
- 16 clubs have made a grand final (no Tigers or Bulldogs)
- 18 clubs have made a prelim (all except Gold Coast and GWS)

Other than your maths, you make a good point - if you reach a prelim final, its a bit rich to equate that with the team that finished last.

 

[Messenger]

Do you think the draft will work to equalize clubs if the AFL stops "manipulating" it? I think I have almost convinced myself that the AFL just keeps it going to give casual fans hope and know that in reality it has basically zero impact on improving a club.

Well what is the endpoint of "equalisation"? A premiership each every 18 years?

 

[Gavin Excell]

Well what is the endpoint of "equalisation"? A premiership each every 18 years?

I think its more hope they (fans) can win one

 

[Gavin Excell]

I think its fair to say Hawks winning another flag isn't the ideal at AFL House (nor mine but that's another matter)

 

[Messenger]

I think its fair to say Hawks winning another flag isn't the ideal at AFL House (nor mine but that's another matter)

You don't think they'd welcome a history making team?

 

[Gavin Excell]

You don't think they'd welcome a history making team?

no

A non Vic team - an expansion team ideally
Reality is public doesn't want to see Hawks again either.

 

[JordyLuke]

You don't think they'd welcome a history making team?

I hope Hawks can do it as I would love to see if Gil could look any more unhappy than he did last year.

 

[Messenger]

no

A non Vic team - an expansion team ideally
Reality is public doesn't want to see Hawks again either.

Oh, come on! I'm a member of the public and I'm up for it

 

[Kwality]

Do you think the draft will work to equalize clubs if the AFL stops "manipulating" it? I think I have almost convinced myself that the AFL just keeps it going to give casual fans hope and know that in reality it has basically zero impact on improving a club.

The AFL are control freaks - best example is free agency requested/demanded/negotiated by the AFLPA & the AFL attached a discretionary compensation pick when & if & who, only when the AFL decide it.

 

[Debris]

Well what is the endpoint of "equalisation"? A premiership each every 18 years?

The AFL probably would manufacture that if they could. For me, equalization is more about not having teams which are atrociously bad for year after year.

One of the problems with drafting in the AFL is that there are 18 players on the field. One player, no matter how good, is not going to move the needle that much.

 

[Pessimistic]

I always find it funny that many support free agency and think players have the right to have a say where they play but they don't want them to have that right at the age of 18? It is hypocritical to like free agency but being against players playing where they want to play at 18.
We have a draft to maintain Victorian sides, that is the only reason.
We ask our supporters and members to be loyal, stand by your club etc yet the players that get drafted are members and supporters also of clubs probably and they are then told to drop your loyalty and go play for the enemy.
It is a stupid stupid system, always has been and always will be.
Zones is the best system

The draft is for nsw and qld surely

 

[Pessimistic]

The draft should be simple. Honestly, how hard is it to line it all up and base it upon ladder position? But no, the AFL have had to try and be too clever by half and introduce fluid and discretionary priority picks. I mean look at Hawthorn. Before any Hawks supporters get their knickers in a twist they should be commended for astute trading, and drafting. But Hodge and Roughead and to a lesser extent Ellis as priority picks is too much. When they nailed their picks around the priority picks, is it any wonder they are the juggernaut they are now. Particularly when the compromised drafts for the expansion clubs meant that no one could get access to high end talent.

The draft is fine ... If the AFL dont **** around with it and make things up on the go

Hawks could have easily drafted pendles and selwood, so hardly nailed the drafts

 

[Lensen]

You're right, OP.
Eight years ago, I posted this. Very little has changed. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...tool-everyone-has-it-cracked-up-to-be.422515/

 

[DrEvil_]

You don't think they'd welcome a history making team?

Need 5 in a row to make history.

 

[footyfan1978]

Since 2000 the AFL have had

Essendon
Brisbane
Port Adelaide
Sydney
West Coast
Geelong
Hawthorn
Collingwood

win the flag and to be honest that really is not a lot of clubs for 16 years. Even worse if you only consider since 2007 as then you only have

Geelong
Hawthorn
Collingwood
Sydney

so 4 teams winning the flag in 9 years is pitiful.

4 clubs in 16 years is what then ?
Pre-draft era we had from 1968 to 1983 only Carlton, Richmond, Hawthorn of North Melbourne win the premiership.
Essendon became a 5th club in 1984 and took until 1990 when draft and salary cap had been in place a few years for a another club to win a premiership.

Since 1990 there were 7 different clubs won premierships from 1990 to 2001 in that time. Port become a 8th in 2004 and Swans 9th a few years later and Geelong 10th in 2007.

10 different clubs winning premierships between 1990 and 2007 is quite telling in terms of equalisations polices having an effect.

 

[L_W_P]

no

A non Vic team - an expansion team ideally
Reality is public doesn't want to see Hawks again either.

I might be in the minority but, unless the Saints can win #2 or the Dockers/Suns/Giants can win their first, Id love to see the Hawks win 4 in a row.

 

[Messenger]

Need 5 in a row to make history.

The "challenge" Pies of the '20's?

It doesn't count if they paid their players in chewing tobacco and used a sheeps head as a ball.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Why is this thread dominated by Hawthorn, stop.

 

[JackOutback]

Why is this thread dominated by Hawthorn, stop.

Why should this thread be any different?