Podcast The Draft: SA Pt.2 - Ep 4.59

Half expected Portia to tell Macca she is not mad just disappointed in him. SA seems to be a great breeding ground for 180ish players. Any idea why SA doesn't have many talls (elite) do other sports identify them and claim them?
 
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Half expected Portia to tell Macca she is not mad just disappointed in him. SA seems to be a great breeding ground for 180ish players. Any idea why SA doesn't have many talls (elite) do other sports identify them and claim them?

The poor quality of the water means that as a state we are 3cm shorter on average than other states
 

Stevepower

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Great discussion, the head says Portia is right and the heart wants Macca to be right. Did you hear the cripps comment "there was interest in our mid tier players but we weren't willing to entertain that". That comment puts me in the Portia camp.
 
Mid-tier players would be guys like Young, Byrne-Jones, Clurey etc. We'd be crazy to trade them out. Then we'd be a donut team with top end players, fringe players and big hole in the middle.
 

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Mid-tier players would be guys like Young, Byrne-Jones, Clurey etc. We'd be crazy to trade them out. Then we'd be a donut team with top end players, fringe players and big hole in the middle.
I'd probably come up with a slightly different list but agree with the sentiment. Not to mention that we would have been offered a cheeseburger without the combo for them.
 

Stevepower

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Mid-tier players would be guys like Young, Byrne-Jones, Clurey etc. We'd be crazy to trade them out. Then we'd be a donut team with top end players, fringe players and big hole in the middle.
Its taking the easy way out again, fans and players have no attachment to a future first rounder so lets just trade that and keep everyone happy. I think getting someone to overvalue your mid tier is the best way to get a good trade. When you do don't even entertain trading those guys that is very weak trading.
 
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It depends what the overvalue is. Noone is giving us a pick 14 or 17 for anyone in that mid tier group. No doubt if someone offered pick 14 for Young we would have lapped that up straight away.
 

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It depends what the overvalue is. Noone is giving us a pick 14 or 17 for anyone in that mid tier group. No doubt if someone offered pick 14 for Young we would have lapped that up straight away.
And unless I forgot someone not many so called mid tier players went for overs.
 

Stevepower

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And unless I forgot someone not many so called mid tier players went for overs.
This is true and if the quote was there was interest in our mid tier players but no offer came close to what we wanted then Id be with you, but he was saying that he wouldn't even entertain offers for these guys.
 

ctpower

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Intense listening so far. Agree with Portia though RE Parker. We're choc full of flankers!
I think I asked a question on a podcast about eight weeks ago about Parker and whether macca and Portia were comfortable To give that guy a raft of draft picks.
I'm worried. I have been for several years about him and can't understand how he has survived so many of KT's supposed reviews.
 

ctpower

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If you've ever watched one of those `Bogan Arrest' programs on TV, it'll be like the part where the guy with a suspended license gets pulled over while drunk and high for going 160kmph next to a school, and he knows he is properly f**ked and all there is he can do is wait for it.
It was a great podcast.
The discussion from both you guys was terrific.
 
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I think I asked a question on a podcast about eight weeks ago about Parker and whether macca and Portia were comfortable To give that guy a raft of draft picks.
I'm worried. I have been for several years about him and can't understand how he has survived so many of KT's supposed reviews.

What don't you rate about Parker?

I think he's been more than solid for us.
 
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When did Parker take over our recruiting ? 2010?

His drafting record with first rounders is ok with wines , wingard and impey , but a miss with Jacobs. that is a small sample size and two of them picked themselves. Not enough to really base any evidence on his ability early rounds.

B- Want to give him a better ranking on picking up two guns with pick 6 and 5/6 ? But I feel they picked themselves in a way. If Melb hadn't passed wines and wingard hadn't tanked his interviews to stay in sa we easily could have drafted Toumpas and Mayes and this grade would be an F. That is scary.


His drafting record with late picks I feel is exceptional

Austin , Howard and darcy are all exceptional pick ups from pick 52 onwards and well ahead of what you would expect to get from there. Also Houston , palmer and Johnson could add to that list of good late pick ups. From where they were picked you couldn't expect a better return than what we may get from that group. Ah chee whatever you think of him was still a good decision at 45 in a weak draft when very few footballers went after him. Blee was a miss and picked before hometown Neale but every team passed on Neale at some point and stuff all players got drafted after blee. Parker has exceeded expectations. Oshea whatever people think of him is a lot better than you can expect to land with most shots at pick 52. Harvey was a miss at 45. So while there is some misses from late picks we seem to have an extraordinary amount of wins with late picks.

A


Mid draft is a mix. Young looks ok , bonner could be really good , Clurey looks a player. But Newton , shaw have been misses. To be honest looking back at the draft shaw was the obvious choice though and not many really good obvious kids went around that pick.


The worrying thing is we have only had what I call 4 mid draft (20-40) picks in that time. We have s**t all basis to know whether Parker can nail those picks. 3/5 players though is a pretty good return, but again it is a small sample size and also worrying we haven't unearthed a genuine star from mid draft like many teams can occasionally pull out.

C+


So overall I give parkers recruiting a B.

The concern is that B is inflated by the gifts that were wines and wingard. My sliding doors situation whereby our first round drafting becomes an F would bring that rating down to a D+

Scary.

This draft with 2 first rounders and 2 good mid draft picks will define how good a recruiter Parker is, because he is basically untested in both categories.
 
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What don't you rate about Parker?

I think he's been more than solid for us.

As I said on the pod, I think his last 3 years with the picks he's had to work with he's done well and we look to have some players with good potential to play decent AFL footy.

Before that I wasn't a fan.
 
Everyone raves about Stephen Wells' drafting but Geelong trade a lot of top end talent in to supplement their list.
 

missionpossible

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Fair assessment philthy but I don't think wines was as obvious as people think, just because he turned out good. He was a bull with questionable endurance and a moor questionable kick. Wines could have gone the other way. I agree on Wingard but you still need to pick the cherry when it is on offer.
 

longdonkey

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In my opinion we have generally done OK in the draft. If you look at our picks over the past 5-6 years other than Shaw/Harvey its hard to find where a clearly better player has got passed us.
However, I think we pick too senior and don't take the right risks and I don't know if this is the club is not showing confidence in our ability to identify the right talent or not.
But I think we have dramatically underperformed in the rookie draft and the ability to find young players and make them better so they become first 22 players.
Here's some examples of us picking a senior rookie and missing out on a good young player
Last time I can remember a rookie young player becoming first 22 is Jonas at 10 we rookied in 2010.
I could say who we missed on but there isn't much point but here's a list of rookies since 2010 vs The Cows
2010 Us Jonas, Hay. Irons, Curnow, M Westhoff Cows: T Milera, Von Bertouch, Callinan
2011 Us Pfeiffer, D Butcher Cows: Laird, Orval, McIntyre, Young, Craig
2012 Us Mitchell, Hoskin Cows: Hartigan, Osborn, Klaosen
2013 Us Russell, S Gray, Renouf, Flynn Cows: Cameron, Battersby, Kelly, Spina,
2014 Us Krakeour, Logan, Wagner Cows: O'Brien, Ramsey, Wilson
2015 Us Snelling, Hewett, Houston, Mitchell Cows: Hunter, Beech, Greenwood, Keath

so in 6 years we have 2 (Jonas, S Gray) with Snelling to come
and the Cows have 4 (Laird, Hartigan, Cameron, Kelly) with O'Brien to come

So they have produced double the players and also one AA player.
 

Turiyasangitananda

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In my opinion we have generally done OK in the draft. If you look at our picks over the past 5-6 years other than Shaw/Harvey its hard to find where a clearly better player has got passed us.
However, I think we pick too senior and don't take the right risks and I don't know if this is the club is not showing confidence in our ability to identify the right talent or not.
But I think we have dramatically underperformed in the rookie draft and the ability to find young players and make them better so they become first 22 players.
Here's some examples of us picking a senior rookie and missing out on a good young player
Last time I can remember a rookie young player becoming first 22 is Jonas at 10 we rookied in 2010.
I could say who we missed on but there isn't much point but here's a list of rookies since 2010 vs The Cows
2010 Us Jonas, Hay. Irons, Curnow, M Westhoff Cows: T Milera, Von Bertouch, Callinan
2011 Us Pfeiffer, D Butcher Cows: Laird, Orval, McIntyre, Young, Craig
2012 Us Mitchell, Hoskin Cows: Hartigan, Osborn, Klaosen
2013 Us Russell, S Gray, Renouf, Flynn Cows: Cameron, Battersby, Kelly, Spina,
2014 Us Krakeour, Logan, Wagner Cows: O'Brien, Ramsey, Wilson
2015 Us Snelling, Hewett, Houston, Mitchell Cows: Hunter, Beech, Greenwood, Keath

so in 6 years we have 2 (Jonas, S Gray) with Snelling to come
and the Cows have 4 (Laird, Hartigan, Cameron, Kelly) with O'Brien to come

So they have produced double the players and also one AA player.
There's 16 other teams who recruit as well. * the cows and what they do or don't do.
 

Portia

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You don't rate a recruiter as `good' by his flankers and underheight mids, you look at everything else.
 
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In my opinion we have generally done OK in the draft. If you look at our picks over the past 5-6 years other than Shaw/Harvey its hard to find where a clearly better player has got passed us.
However, I think we pick too senior and don't take the right risks and I don't know if this is the club is not showing confidence in our ability to identify the right talent or not.
But I think we have dramatically underperformed in the rookie draft and the ability to find young players and make them better so they become first 22 players.
Here's some examples of us picking a senior rookie and missing out on a good young player
Last time I can remember a rookie young player becoming first 22 is Jonas at 10 we rookied in 2010.
I could say who we missed on but there isn't much point but here's a list of rookies since 2010 vs The Cows
2010 Us Jonas, Hay. Irons, Curnow, M Westhoff Cows: T Milera, Von Bertouch, Callinan
2011 Us Pfeiffer, D Butcher Cows: Laird, Orval, McIntyre, Young, Craig
2012 Us Mitchell, Hoskin Cows: Hartigan, Osborn, Klaosen
2013 Us Russell, S Gray, Renouf, Flynn Cows: Cameron, Battersby, Kelly, Spina,
2014 Us Krakeour, Logan, Wagner Cows: O'Brien, Ramsey, Wilson
2015 Us Snelling, Hewett, Houston, Mitchell Cows: Hunter, Beech, Greenwood, Keath

so in 6 years we have 2 (Jonas, S Gray) with Snelling to come
and the Cows have 4 (Laird, Hartigan, Cameron, Kelly) with O'Brien to come

So they have produced double the players and also one AA player.

Pfeiffer over Laird, when they play the same role is a shocking decision in hindsight. Justin Clarke went the next pick as well who was looking the goods pre-concussion. Lee Spurr went a few picks later.
 
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Given Chad and Ollie virtually fell into our laps, the late picks of Austin, Howard and Frampton in the same draft are looking good for Parker.

The aforementioned have shown enough to at least suggest they could be long term AFL quality, and there is a chance Frampton may debut in 2017. :thumbsu:

No doubt it has happened before, but I can't recall 3 such late draft picks from the same draft, and by the one club, all looking chances to make it at the higher level, and I suspect the average hit rate is probably one, or less ( ie none ). :rolleyes:

The pressure is on for the 4 picks in this year's draft though, Parker has to get at least 2 ( if not 3 ) of them right.

All 4 will be a bonus! :)
 
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