Science/Environment The Drought and the NBN and Drought Proofing the Country.

[bombersfan4000]

Yes, because in the enlightened age it's a great idea to spend billions of dollars to irrigate a region that's one bad concrete holder away from poisoning the water table and the soil above it

What and aparently gas is clean energy according to those lefty organisations of the geeens, UN etc.......


Of the reported cases where water is poised you’ll find isnhas been a naturally occurred event given natural events that happen

 

[bombersfan4000]

But the looney left?!

Tell us again how once those windmills are made all the coal mines are going to close up! Despite coal being used as a raw material in most of the things we use in our daily life!

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I'm quite sure they have and just because it wasn't made public, doesn't mean they haven't.

I don"t think they have.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I don"t think they have.

They have. There is a whole business case dedicated to North Queensland and irrigation. You just have to look for it,... instead of having it fed to you.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Tell us again how once those windmills are made all the coal mines are going to close up! Despite coal being used as a raw material in most of the things we use in our daily life!

Someone needs to go back to high school and understand coal and the differences in type.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

They have. There is a whole business case dedicated to North Queensland and irrigation. You just have to look for it,... instead of having it fed to you.

You say there's been a business case done for irrigating FNQ and someone else has spoken to some random marine biologist in the far north of WA.

What part of the WHOLE country are you not understanding?

 

[smokingjacket]

What and aparently gas is clean energy according to those lefty organisations of the geeens, UN etc.......


Of the reported cases where water is poised you’ll find isnhas been a naturally occurred event given natural events that happen

I'm talking about the chemicals they use to frack the rocks to release the gas.

Are you all there? I don't want to beat up on you if you have something wrong with you. I assumed this was a troll account previously.

 

[Bradesmaen]

You say there's been a business case done for irrigating FNQ and someone else has spoken to some random marine biologist in the far north of WA.

What part of the WHOLE country are you not understanding?

You do understand where the majority of rain falls right? Given that the Murray is already used for irrigation, that covers NSW, Vic and SA basically..

 

[Run n Spread]

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com....-economy-by-drought-proofing-country/2818242/

https://www.pumpindustry.com.au/is-drought-proofing-australia-the-possible-dream/

Read something similar and am all for it. If you could water the desert we would be a super power.

But one essential problem and this includes the drought. It doesn't rain in most of Australia. Pipelines/inland seas are not viable as you can't pump the water sustainability yet. This drought is simply a product of natural weather conditions. We are not suited to grazing cattle and other livestock in Qld and West NSW and most other parts as it is simply too ******* dry. IT DOESN"T RAIN IN AUSTRALIA.

Now any technological advancements or a new fresh river system that can be desalinated in the middle of the country=we have a new Roman Empire......................but until then we will always be "battlers." Natural conditions just don't suit what we try and do.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Read something similar and am all for it. If you could water the desert we would be a super power.

But one essential problem and this includes the drought. It doesn't rain in most of Australia. Pipelines/inland seas are not viable as you can't pump the water sustainability yet. This drought is simply a product of natural weather conditions. We are not suited to grazing cattle and other livestock in Qld and West NSW and most other parts as it is simply too ******* dry. IT DOESN"T RAIN IN AUSTRALIA.

Now any technological advancements or a new fresh river system that can be desalinated in the middle of the country=we have a new Roman Empire......................but until then we will always be "battlers." Natural conditions just don't suit what we try and do.

There has been studies done into directing flows into pre-existing river systems and moving it that way rather than pipes and pumps.

Either way I'd like to see a united national feasibility study done rather than piecemeal ones done state by state, region by region.

 

[Bradesmaen]

There has been studies done into directing flows into pre-existing river systems and moving it that way rather than pipes and pumps.

Either way I'd like to see a united national feasibility study done rather than piecemeal ones done state by state, region by region.

You can't do a national one, every river is different, you can't just lump them all together. How hard is it to understand?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

You can't do a national one, every river is different, you can't just lump them all together. How hard is it to understand?

Of course a national one can be done. I don't understand your insistence that it can't be.

You ever see when Lake Eyre fills up? The waters come from floods in QLD, it takes months for them to flow all the way down.

My question isn't about just irrigating FNQ with water that falls in FNQ, nor is it about taking every last drop of the monsoonal rains and destroying the tropical ecosystems.

Let's assume that I'm not a 5 year old with zero life experience. Let's assume that I'm 50 and have lived in Cairns, Toowoomba, Canberra, Melbourne, Geelong, Phillip Island, Somerville, Katamatite (irrigation country), Leinster and Perth and have spent large slabs of my life holidaying in places like Bendigo and Boort (more irrigation country) and spent over 6 months in a caravan touring the country with my family.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Of course a national one can be done. I don't understand your insistence that it can't be.

You ever see when Lake Eyre fills up? The waters come from floods in QLD, it takes months for them to flow all the way down.

My question isn't about just irrigating FNQ with water that falls in FNQ, nor is it about taking every last drop of the monsoonal rains and destroying the tropical ecosystems.

Let's assume that I'm not a 5 year old with zero life experience. Let's assume that I'm 50 and have lived in Cairns, Toowoomba, Canberra, Melbourne, Geelong, Phillip Island, Somerville, Katamatite (irrigation country), Leinster and Perth and have spent large slabs of my life holidaying in places like Bendigo and Boort (more irrigation country) and spent over 6 months in a caravan touring the country with my family.

So you're advocating irrigating Far west WA with water from FNQ? Here's 100 billion dollars.. oh wait that STILL isn't enough. That is why they don't do national ones, because the cost already outweighs any benefit immediately. It's not hard to understand from a practical point of view. You're also talking about redirecting water that is already used and needed by towns, just so farmers in areas where it doesn't rain a lot can farm because they were stupid enough to set up like that in the first place. It's like all the farmers who went north of Goyders line and then complained it doesn't rain.. honestly.

Robbing the ecosystem for greed. That's gone well for us so far.

 

[madmug]

A water pipeline could be built from Perth to Kalgoorlie 115 years ago that is still in use today. The Great Ocean Road could be built almost a century ago with a lot of picks and shovel manual labour being used, yet I have never seen in my 50 years even one feasibility study even commissioned to see if we can do it or if it's even doable. I would at least like to see that and see the projected cost involved and over what time span it could be built.

The once proposed Kimberley to Perth canal was found to have significant economic, social & environmental costs & engineering problems. So such proposals are clearly not straight forward. I saw where desalination may actually be cheaper.

 

[EasternTiger]

Read something similar and am all for it. If you could water the desert we would be a super power.

But one essential problem and this includes the drought. It doesn't rain in most of Australia. Pipelines/inland seas are not viable as you can't pump the water sustainability yet. This drought is simply a product of natural weather conditions. We are not suited to grazing cattle and other livestock in Qld and West NSW and most other parts as it is simply too ******* dry. IT DOESN"T RAIN IN AUSTRALIA.

Now any technological advancements or a new fresh river system that can be desalinated in the middle of the country=we have a new Roman Empire......................but until then we will always be "battlers." Natural conditions just don't suit what we try and do.

If they can set up permaculture gardens in the dead sea valley in Jordan, I'm pretty sure there are many areas in Australia we can improve for farming.

I'm not convinced we are motivated enough to try it though.

 

[Cmarsh]

Heard of a story about 10 years ago when there was another NSW drought on at the time. There was a group of tourists from South Africa travelling through Australia. Their tour operator mentioned parts of the country were going through a severe drought. The tourists response was along the lines of..."that's terrible. How many people have died".

That story was telling to me. Here in Aus we don't really comprehend what a drought means in other parts of the world where people genuinely live on the edge, not our so called "Aussie Battler" crap.

 

[Admiral Byng]

If it was economically feasible it would have been done 50 or 100 years ago. The Kalgoorlie pipeline is for potable (drinking) water, not for agriculture. It is economically viable because the region produces wealth from mining (it is not called the goldfields for nothing), the water is just used to keep the humans alive that work there. Supplying water for agriculture and irrigation though, that's an order of magnitude more water required than simply keeping humans alive.

Any such project would cost in the 10s of billions. In the mid 2000s a water pipeline from the Kimberley area to Perth to supply drinking water (not for irrigation) was costed at 5 billion for a pipeline and 2 billion for a covered canal, even though the latter was a bit of a guess. To scale that up to provide the volumes required for irrigated agriculture would be in the tens of billions.

Hard to see where you could make that money back. You'd have to charge for the water, probably quite a lot. But the farmers would then complain about the cost and demand the water for free.

 

[kranky al]

In my work I met a marine biologist from America who was hired to study shark nurseries in the Kimberly region where people suggest we should garner water from.

The sharks he studied an important part of the ecosystem Australia and Asia wide

Amazing fellah. Tagging sharks by hand. Very aggressive sharks that can't be studied any other way than this crazy campaigner diving in on his own.

You take the water flow away. You take away the nutrients and the food of these creatures that play an important role in the food chain


It's not as simple as people may seem.

They have entertained the idea of this.

Instead of diverting the water - we could always .... you know .... build a city where the water is.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Or we could use the water where it is to grow hay or fodder and transport that product in bulk around the country to where it is needed. Say we had an efficient land transport system based upon rail with each state rail network interconnected across borders and built to the same track gau...

... nah * it, that would be too hard.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Or we could use the water where it is to grow hay or fodder and transport that product in bulk around the country to where it is needed. Say we had an efficient land transport system based upon rail with each state rail network interconnected across borders and built to the same track gau...

... nah **** it, that would be too hard.

We could but I'm not sure how those particular fodder crops would go in the humid conditions. Would it go mouldy? If it was stored anywhere would it spontaneously combust like it's been know to do in the south when you get a bit of dampness in a bale stored in a stack in a shed / undercover.

All that beautiful, free water currently going to waste in FNQ. Instead of filling 100s or 1000s of sandbags to keep the water out of homes, we could be harnessing it and using it.

We have a drought and it costs billions. We have floods and it costs if not billions then 100s of millions. For a country where it is a regular occurrence, that adds up to a lot of money over the years.

There must be a flood level that is acceptable as it's needed every now and then to flush out those ecosystems properly, anything over that we take.

 

[Admiral Byng]

We could but I'm not sure how those particular fodder crops would go in the humid conditions. Would it go mouldy? If it was stored anywhere would it spontaneously combust like it's been know to do in the south when you get a bit of dampness in a bale stored in a stack in a shed / undercover.

All that beautiful, free water currently going to waste in FNQ. Instead of filling 100s or 1000s of sandbags to keep the water out of homes, we could be harnessing it and using it.

We have a drought and it costs billions. We have floods and it costs if not billions then 100s of millions. For a country where it is a regular occurrence, that adds up to a lot of money over the years.

There must be a flood level that is acceptable as it's needed every now and then to flush out those ecosystems properly, anything over that we take.

Water is heavy and hard to shift around. 1 pallet tank full of water weighs a tonne. A semi truck can only carry about 22 of them fully loaded. Pipelines and pumps consume vast amounts of power, there is no free ride in the laws of physics just because it is in a liquid state.

The drainage basin around Townsville flows into the Pacific. That's just the lie of the land. If you wanted to transfer it to another drainage basin (inland) it means shifting it over a mountain range, which means massive amounts of energy to lift it, or massive investment to dig a baseline tunnel under the mountains. Probably physically possible to do but massively expensive.

 

[Fat Yak]

New water facts provide State Government with golden opportunity
Paul Murray The West Australian
Sunday, 2 September 2018 8:23AM

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/paul...ernment-with-golden-opportunity-ng-b88946212z

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Water is heavy and hard to shift around. 1 pallet tank full of water weighs a tonne. A semi truck can only carry about 22 of them fully loaded. Pipelines and pumps consume vast amounts of power, there is no free ride in the laws of physics just because it is in a liquid state.

The drainage basin around Townsville flows into the Pacific. That's just the lie of the land. If you wanted to transfer it to another drainage basin (inland) it means shifting it over a mountain range, which means massive amounts of energy to lift it, or massive investment to dig a baseline tunnel under the mountains. Probably physically possible to do but massively expensive.

Droughts and floods for the next 1,000 years, massively expensive. I guess they better get digging.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

New water facts provide State Government with golden opportunity
Paul Murray The West Australian
Sunday, 2 September 2018 8:23AM

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/paul...ernment-with-golden-opportunity-ng-b88946212z

Yeah, I Googled for Qld and a few headlines came up for 4 dams in the top end of the state, I'll have to have a better look when I knock off work tonight.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Droughts and floods for the next 1,000 years, massively expensive. I guess they better get digging.

I am all for mitigating droughts and floods through engineering solutions.

But shifting water around from a place with lots of water to another place with a shortage, to support permanent agriculture in the dry place seems like the cart driving the horses. Moving the agriculture from the dry place to a wetter place should be discussed as a viable option.

It may require some research and scientific planning to establish a viable regime in the different climatic zone. So far in the entire history of humankind nobody has mastered a foodbowl sort of mass agricultural system in Australia's broad tropical north. But that is not to say it is impossible. Early attempts in the Ord scheme have failed for various reasons.