The Elephant in the Room.

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Dirty_11

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 28, 2014
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Beneath the Blue & White
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Problem is he get's pushed off the lead too easily. It's been a problem for years and they've not addressed it. Every team knows if you can put a slight body on his lead, he's totally taken out of the contest.

You can't play as a lead up forward without any other dimension to you game if you're so easily beaten.

I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, just that I can't believe he's/we've not improved it yet. He's seriously exposed at the moment, it's just too easy for defenders.
Brown on the lead is basically unstoppable. When we move the ball quickly and hit him up. The minute we sit it on his head we struggle as he gets pushed off the ball. That is his weakness hence why I believe he tries to get that one hand in to make sure the ball gets to ground. We are not turning him into Jonno Brown so we should start playing to his strengths.

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ferball

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Jul 24, 2015
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Jack's issue (aside from his body) is his lack of accuracy.

There is a role there as that third forward but to make that work he's got to be a dead eye dick and make every shot count.

He simply misses too many too often to be effective in that role.
He could have had nearly 50 goals in 2018 if he'd kicked straight.
 

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Snake_Baker

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Brown on the lead is basically unstoppable. When we move the ball quickly and hit him up. The minute we sit it on his head we struggle as he gets pushed off the ball. That is his weakness hence why I believe he tries to get that one hand in to make sure the ball gets to ground. We are not turning him into Jonno Brown so we should start playing to his strengths.
Excellent analysis.

It's as if the impact upon the quality of inside 50 entries caused by Hawthorns cheating & close checking of the mark resulting in the defenders & midfielders responding apprehensively for 80% of the game, is completely lost on some folks.
 
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ferball

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The Elephant in the room is us condemning our captain. Yes he's struggling which I think is due to his body at the moment but i still see a forward role for him when Larkey is back. He's been asked to play tall in the forward line with runs on the ball.

Not ideal for Jack
No one is condemning him but we are facing the depressing reality of the situation.

He needs to step down as captain, and focus on playing 15 - 20 proper games a year with the majority during finals. Taz should be captain, Jack should be his deputy for the next two years and Jy in the third place on that list. 2022/3 Jy can take over from Taz.

Jack could have two or three very good seasons if he did that. Hopefully with a flag or two to retire with.

He can still play forward and push into the midfield for a few minutes a quarter if his body is right. When he does that he is a weapon.

He will still command the same respect for what he has done already but his leadership status will be reinforced because he put his ego aside and did was best to maximise the teams chances of success.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Aug 21, 2018
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Finally got around to watching Shaw’s presser last night, I didn’t realise Jack rolled his ankle early in the game before the hammy. That changes my perception of his game. Has there been any game this year where he hasn’t been injured?
This is what I mean about his body falling apart the poor bugger.

He's never actually fully fit because he's always having interrupted pre seasons coz he's injured and the way he plays means he gets injured lots.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Polec, Thomas, LDU & Bailey Scott are pretty reliable. Simpkin & Zurhaar are also solid set shots. The good news is that most of them are very young.

I doubt Tazz would miss too many if only we had three of him, and one to put forward.
LDU is under 50 per cent for his career goal kicking at 5.6.

Most of his misses are from set shots, he's good on the run and in general play.
 
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ferball

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Jul 24, 2015
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This is what I mean about his body falling apart the poor bugger.

He's never actually fully fit because he's always having interrupted pre seasons coz he's injured and the way he plays means he gets injured lots.
This is why he isn't good for a whole season any more.

It's ridiculous to expect it of him too.

This situation needs to be managed and for that to work he has to be able to accept it. If he did, and announced himself he was stepping down to concentrate on getting the most out of himself for the rest of his career while the young guys come on this would also show real leadership.

Otherwise it will slowly fall apart (his body and his career) and he deserves better than that's from the club.
 

The chorus

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Jun 15, 2012
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Excellent analysis.

It's as if the impact upon the quality of inside 50 entries caused by Hawthorns cheating & close checking of the mark resulting in the defenders & midfielders responding apprehensively for 80% of the game, is completely lost on some folks.
Agreed. Hawthorn's aggressive checking of the mark was very noticeable and was obviously a tactic that worked in slowing down our ball movement and our forward line doesn't work very well when we allow the opposition time to stack their backline. We can expect other clubs to use the same tactic in future so we need to be ready for it and have a plan to overcome it. We won't kick winning scores very often if we don't move the ball quickly into our forward line
 

Thewlis Dish

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Sep 9, 2003
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Problem is he get's pushed off the lead too easily. It's been a problem for years and they've not addressed it. Every team knows if you can put a slight body on his lead, he's totally taken out of the contest.

You can't play as a lead up forward without any other dimension to you game if you're so easily beaten.

I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, just that I can't believe he's/we've not improved it yet. He's seriously exposed at the moment, it's just too easy for defenders.
Amazing it's taken opponents three years and 200 goals to work it out.
 

Bigeasy

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Apr 9, 2008
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We do though get beat by two ordinary sides.
Swans loss hurt no doubt but the Hawks, not so much. I said before the game that we had three things going against us that were significant

1. Debuting 2 players
2. John Kennedy senior's death - note their tackle, smother and 1 percent count.
3. Cunnington late out.

We hung in all game and kept persisting until it went our way and we should have stolen it.

And the good thing is that our kids played a significant part.

This year is a cluster fu** of a season so great time to test the kids which Shaw is doing. I like the fact he is blooding and persisting with them while we remain a dangerous team to play.

Yeah we lost but I like what I see.
 

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muttley45

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May 4, 2009
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No one is condemning him but we are facing the depressing reality of the situation.

He needs to step down as captain, and focus on playing 15 - 20 proper games a year with the majority during finals. Taz should be captain, Jack should be his deputy for the next two years and Jy in the third place on that list. 2022/3 Jy can take over from Taz.

Jack could have two or three very good seasons if he did that. Hopefully with a flag or two to retire with.

He can still play forward and push into the midfield for a few minutes a quarter if his body is right. When he does that he is a weapon.

He will still command the same respect for what he has done already but his leadership status will be reinforced because he put his ego aside and did was best to maximise the teams chances of success.
If, and when Jack steps down as Captain, i would not think, or expect him to saddle up as Vice Captain, leadership group ? without doubt, but let the new blood have a clean run at the job.
 

DesertRoo

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2013
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If, and when Jack steps down as Captain, i would not think, or expect him to saddle up as Vice Captain, leadership group ? without doubt, but let the new blood have a clean run at the job.
That’s the way I see it.. it’ll go straight to the kids, and hopefully we’ll have a group of onfield leaders to support.
 

tazaa

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Apr 11, 2007
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This! Archers skills sh*t all over Ziebells. I rarely remember Arch turning the ball over by foot through his whole career..
Archer was a lovely kick.
He gave it enough airtime I recall so many passes out of the back pocket hitting another teammate perfectly.

As for Jack I think he needs to reinvent himself and sheda stack of weight.
The calf, the hammy, the ankle, the medial his body cannot cope and if he wants to be okay 70-75% game time I think he needs to get super thin.

The bash and crash isn’t sustainable and he needs to become more effective as a forward, otherwise the game will just see him off if it hasn’t already.
Write off 2020 and just get ready for a big preseason.
 

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