The Elephant in the Room.

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SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Don't Get Cut
Aug 21, 2018
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Archer was a lovely kick.
He gave it enough airtime I recall so many passes out of the back pocket hitting another teammate perfectly.

As for Jack I think he needs to reinvent himself and sheda stack of weight.
The calf, the hammy, the ankle, the medial his body cannot cope and if he wants to be okay 70-75% game time I think he needs to get super thin.

The bash and crash isn’t sustainable and he needs to become more effective as a forward, otherwise the game will just see him off if it hasn’t already.
Write off 2020 and just get ready for a big preseason.
He can lose all the weight he wants, if he's kicking 1.3 as a specialist forward he's not adding much.
 

Gasometer

TheBrownDog
Mar 14, 2002
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Imo there is now a clear difference between the Scotts Players and Shaws Players in this Team.

Scotts play to the percentages whereas the Shaws take the game on.

I can deal with that short term.

There is a middle group which is more problematic. Those that want to take the game on but lack the ability/skill to complete the play.

Am I right? Wrong?
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Jul 24, 2015
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Imo there is now a clear difference between the Scotts Players and Shaws Players in this Team.

Scotts play to the percentages whereas the Shaws take the game on.

I can deal with that short term.

There is a middle group which is more problematic. Those that want to take the game on but lack the ability/skill to complete the play.

Am I right? Wrong?
I think you're a little wrong ie it's a trend type difference between them not a completely delineated one, but there is also an element of truth in what you say.
 

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llama2

Senior List
Dec 22, 2013
163
352
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If that hawks side is top 4 I'm pulling the ******* boots back on. or shut up shop as this is no longer an elite competition.
The Hawthorn team we played is the oldest team in the competition. They have an average age of 27.7 so far this season. Compare that to us in 2016, with an average of 26.7.
They're a good team because they're full of hardened bodies, and a large group of players in that 26-30 age bracket.
However, they have very little young talent coming through. They had 5 players in the 21-23 age bracket playing on the weekend. The other 17 players were 25 and over. Is it much of a surprise that a team with that much experience is very competitive?
If anything, they should be very worried if they aren't a top 4 team this year. We all remember what happened at North in 2016, and the Hawks are a full year older on average this year.
 

Snake_Baker

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Apr 24, 2013
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However, they have very little young talent coming through. They had 5 players in the 21-23 age bracket playing on the weekend. The other 17 players were 25 and over. Is it much of a surprise that a team with that much experience is very competitive?
They are a ticking time bomb.
 

GarnerSmash

They tried to make me go to rehab
Jun 2, 2009
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The Hawthorn team we played is the oldest team in the competition. They have an average age of 27.7 so far this season. Compare that to us in 2016, with an average of 26.7.
They're a good team because they're full of hardened bodies, and a large group of players in that 26-30 age bracket.
However, they have very little young talent coming through. They had 5 players in the 21-23 age bracket playing on the weekend. The other 17 players were 25 and over. Is it much of a surprise that a team with that much experience is very competitive?
If anything, they should be very worried if they aren't a top 4 team this year. We all remember what happened at North in 2016, and the Hawks are a full year older on average this year.
They have 22 blokes 22 or under, 10 of whom have played games, with 8 rookies and 6 that were taken in the first three rounds of the draft.

We have 18 in the same age bracket, 14 of whom have played games, with 4 rookies and 11 taken in the first three rounds of the draft.

So while they can say that they have a lot of young players on the list they are chock full of late main draft and rookie draft picks. They'd better pray that their development does the job in the next two years.
 

pupstar

All Australian
Aug 12, 2017
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Imo there is now a clear difference between the Scotts Players and Shaws Players in this Team.

Scotts play to the percentages whereas the Shaws take the game on.

I can deal with that short term.

There is a middle group which is more problematic. Those that want to take the game on but lack the ability/skill to complete the play.

Am I right? Wrong?
I have not been to a game this year like all of us but just listerning to the radio and on tv I honestly have not noticed much difference at all from what we have been doing the last couple of seasons. Maybe wrong probably are .Would be interested in other peoples opinion. Not sure about training posters who go regulary will know lot more than me what is different on the track.
 

zoomba23

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Jun 17, 2017
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I have not been to a game this year like all of us but just listerning to the radio and on tv I honestly have not noticed much difference at all from what we have been doing the last couple of seasons. Maybe wrong probably are .Would be interested in other peoples opinion. Not sure about training posters who go regulary will know lot more than me what is different on the track.
Yep, same. Haven't noticed that much difference. Most of the play I've seen since Shaw took over literally isn't any different from what we were doing under Scott.There's still a lot of aimless, stagnant, down-the-line ball movement, which gets chopped off by the opposition, in turn putting our defence on the back foot. That was a trademark of the Scott years and it's been a trademark of all of this year's games barring the GWS win. The ONLY onfield gameplan-related change I've noticed from Scott to Shaw is that, at our best, our pressure is a lot better than what it was under Scott. At various points we have suffocated teams, hassled them and tackled them relentlessly, and come away with the win. By the same token though, it's not something we've done consistently. I think some people are really overrating Shaw as a coach in terms of gameplan. Don't forget, we scored our lowest EVER total under him and have been beaten twice this year by bang-average teams who we should be beating on paper. I like where he's taking the club, and I like that he's trying to get us playing with more aggression and pressure, but so far, the results haven't been brilliant. Reckon we all need to take a step back and look at where this club is at from a realistic viewpoint. Enough of the sugar-coating 'oh that's just a symptom of Scott's time at the club, Shaw will fix it.'
 
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Horizons_00

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 11, 2014
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Yep, same. Haven't noticed that much difference. Most of the play I've seen since Shaw took over literally isn't any different from what we were doing under Scott.There's still a lot of aimless, stagnant, down-the-line ball movement, which gets chopped off by the opposition, in turn putting our defence on the back foot. That was a trademark of the Scott years and it's been a trademark of all of this year's games barring the GWS win. The ONLY onfield gameplan-related change I've noticed from Scott to Shaw is that, at our best, our pressure is a lot better than what it was under Scott. At various points we have suffocated teams, hassled them and tackled them relentlessly, and come away with the win. By the same token though, it's not something we've done consistently. I think some people are really overrating Shaw as a coach in terms of gameplan. Don't forget, we scored our lowest EVER total under him and have been beaten twice this year by bang-average teams who we should be beating on paper. I like where he's taking the club, and I like that he's trying to get us playing with more aggression and pressure, but so far, the results haven't been brilliant. Reckon we all need to take a step back and look at where this club is at from a realistic viewpoint. Enough of the sugar-coating 'oh that's just a symptom of Scott's time at the club, Shaw will fix it.'
Pressure wins footy. if pressure is up the offence takes care of itself.

Port are relentless with their pressure this year and they are on top. There are so many factors and challenges face this year as a first year coach.

it’s going to take a while to eliminate old habits out of a team that’s had the same sh*t for over 10 years.
 

zoomba23

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Jun 17, 2017
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Pressure wins footy. if pressure is up the offence takes care of itself.

Port are relentless with their pressure this year and they are on top. There are so many factors and challenges face this year as a first year coach.

it’s going to take a while to eliminate old habits out of a team that’s had the same sh*t for over 10 years.
Completely agree that there are a lot of challenges to overcome for a first year coach, and that our brand of footy has become more pressure-focused under Shaw, but the way some of the comments read on here, you'd think that the bloke was the Messiah. All I'm saying is, we gotta stay realistic, and we gotta realise that some of the less desirable characteristics of this team are not simply the result of Brad Scott, but the result of C-grade players who have been kept for far too long.
 

Gasometer

TheBrownDog
Mar 14, 2002
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Completely agree that there are a lot of challenges to overcome for a first year coach, and that our brand of footy has become more pressure-focused under Shaw, but the way some of the comments read on here, you'd think that the bloke was the Messiah. All I'm saying is, we gotta stay realistic, and we gotta realise that some of the less desirable characteristics of this team are not simply the result of Brad Scott, but the result of C-grade players who have been kept for far too long.
The C Grade is wat I am talking about. Turnstile attendants at times.

You can see glimpses with the younger group being more attacking and wanting the ball. Take that mark at the end of the game last week and I pose you this question..would Ben Brown have taken that mark off Drew Petrie in his 5th game?
 

Passmore

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May 22, 2001
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The C Grade is wat I am talking about. Turnstile attendants at times.

You can see glimpses with the younger group being more attacking and wanting the ball. Take that mark at the end of the game last week and I pose you this question..would Ben Brown have taken that mark off Drew Petrie in his 5th game?
Very true, Gaso. The younger group want the big moments. We pray that Mr Shaw can keep on encouraging these blokes to play with flair. And replace the C graders with more. We’ve got another half dozen in the wings and we’ll pick up more talent again.

Hopefully time is running out for some very average footballers.
 

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Passmore

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This season really is an indictment of the decline in quality for this league. This years premier would get pantsed by any other premier of the past 40 years.
But they’ll still have premiership cup on the mantelpiece and that’s really all that matters.
 

Snake_Baker

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This season really is an indictment of the decline in quality for this league. This years premier would get pantsed by any other premier of the past 40 years.

Sums up most of the last decade. If I wasn't one eyed about my club, I wouldn't give this sport the time of day any longer. It's been ruined.
 

Reginald0

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Jul 30, 2012
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Mmmm, watched the last qtr Sts v blues and really it did not have much to get excited about
there is a ballup or whatever and then just endless short kicks and sideways The Possession game

new rule : only a mark if 25m Forward
everything else play on
 

Reginald0

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Jul 30, 2012
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Making more rules is only going to make the game worse, if anything rules need to be reversed around 20 years back.
cant agree

football was not played with all the short kicks
it was played as Kick it up our end See who takes a screamer
You kick it down your end and show what you got...

the sideways kick, the effing backwards kick...if you could immediately tackle there wld have to be more end to end

that’s what we want isn’t it?
 

Billy Not Really

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Apr 7, 2018
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the sideways kick, the effing backwards kick...if you could immediately tackle there wld have to be more end to end
It may not be a one solution fixes all problem, as most of the game is played defensively now around stoppages and territory, any forward kicks are generally up the line and corridor entries are rare, coaches may just defer to doing short kicks forward constantly and 25m limits on smaller grounds may not even be feasible so they'll go for territorial pushes up the ground with handball passes and mini chip kicks and gain ground wish stoppage work. More emphasis on it being a midfielder's game which is already is.

Obviously the rules of the game have made it worse, no question but I also place a lot of the blame on the coaches finding loopholes in the rules to play as defensively as possible without turning it into a goal-fest, while its what the fans want, coaches hate it.
 

Horizons_00

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 11, 2014
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Very true, Gaso. The younger group want the big moments. We pray that Mr Shaw can keep on encouraging these blokes to play with flair. And replace the C graders with more. We’ve got another half dozen in the wings and we’ll pick up more talent again.

Hopefully time is running out for some very average footballers.
True. But I believe there is some development room for some of our C graders. They just need the right coach and environment for that to happen. We finally got it right imo and now we are in a pandemic under the messiest conditions

We are on the right path for sure. Only last year I seen north play some of the best footy I have seen (port or Collingwood game for example) under a new coach

We have the cattle but we do need to improve our list like many afl teams atm
 

Gasometer

TheBrownDog
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Here’s a point.

Had we have kicked backwards and sideways in the 94 Preliminary Final we would have won ...















and got our butts kicked in the GF.
 

Passmore

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2001
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True. But I believe there is some development room for some of our C graders. They just need the right coach and environment for that to happen. We finally got it right imo and now we are in a pandemic under the messiest conditions

We are on the right path for sure. Only last year I seen north play some of the best footy I have seen (port or Collingwood game for example) under a new coach

We have the cattle but we do need to improve our list like many afl teams atm
I don't think our c graders have much development in them, but there are role player or c graders will be in every good team. I just think we have too many at the moment and in positions where we need better.

It'll take a bit of time though.

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