The End of Holden

[Scotland]

The Holden Hurricane in 1969 had a rear camera (there was no rear window so was necessary) and climate controlled A/C.

Meanwhile Holden didn't start making OHC engines until the 2000s.

 

[Hawk Dork]

This had the potential to be the most beautiful car ever made.

Dad had a dark grey sedan one of those
EJ Special
Looks good in 2 doors

 

[edgie]

The Holden Hurricane in 1969 had a rear camera (there was no rear window so was necessary) and climate controlled A/C.

Meanwhile Holden didn't start making OHC engines until the 2000s.

And it had GPS


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[Scotland]

And it had GPS

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So far ahead of its time. I always liked the quirky GTR-X Torana but really it wasn't that groundbreaking underneath, just looked cool. Wiki says one of the 3 made is in Michigan. That's ****ed.

 

[Hawk Dork]

And it had GPS


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and an auto-seek radio function

 

[edgie]

But most stunningly, it had a 253. Phwoar.


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[Doss]

I drove a 2.6L V6 Vectra from 2008 to 2015; was a great car for most of its life. Of course it wasn't really a true Holden (those Vectras were just a rebadged Opel) but it remains comfortably my longest serving car.

 

[edgie]

I'm still sad the Holden brand is no more. Yes, practically it has been dead since local manufacturing ceased, but now it's being lowered in to the ground, never to be seen again, only in memories. It was nothing more than a symbol or a logo, but there was still something to that, some certain sentimentality of seeing the lion and the wheel around. I guess there isn't any room for sentimental value.

Cars the family has been through since I've been alive:

VK Commodore
Subaru Sherpa
Subaru Liberty
VR Commodore**
VS Ute (column shift!)
VY Commodore*
Ford Festiva
VE Ute*
HQ Premier***
Toyota Kluger*

*Still owned and used
**Still owned but out of use, sitting in the sun, unregistered and rusting away. Typical Holden.
***Inherited from deceased family

 

[edgie]

I think the move to importing could have worked but they ****ed it all up, probably on purpose. The Commodore name continuing to be used for a car that was not spiritually a Commodore in that there was no rear wheel drive, sedan, or V8 option, and also, no utility. The Opel or whatever it was may have been better received with it's own name, or perhaps reviving an older name from Holden's repertoire, like Vectra or something.

The other option, was to find a vehicle more appropriate for it, I guess the easy option from GM's catalogue is the Chevy Impala.

Stick an aussie V6 in it rather than the 4 cylinder it comes with and done.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I think the move to importing could have worked but they f’ed it all up, probably on purpose. The Commodore name continuing to be used for a car that was not spiritually a Commodore in that there was no rear wheel drive, sedan, or V8 option, and also, no utility. The Opel or whatever it was may have been better received with it's own name, or perhaps reviving an older name from Holden's repertoire, like Vectra or something.

The other option, was to find a vehicle more appropriate for it, I guess the easy option from GM's catalogue is the Chevy Impala.

Stick an aussie V6 in it rather than the 4 cylinder it comes with and done.

I don't know man, they had a crack with the Epica, the Malibu and then the Insignia and they all flopped hard. I think you've just got to step back and acknowledge that private buyers just weren't interested in boring, basic sedans anymore and fleet buyers were well and truly enamoured with Hybrid Camrys to consider anything else. It's not just Holden either; the next biggest seller after the Camry & Commodore in the mid or large size sedan department is the Mazda6 which goes at about 200 units per month.

Nail in the coffin was when Opel/Vauxhall was sold and with it, GM's only source of respectable RHD product. If we're being honest, the Equinox and the Acadia were okay, but Australians just don't do cars that were styled in Detroit and nothing about them was good enough to overcome that.

And while we're half on the topic, continually chopping and changing model lines within segments has probably done untold damage to Holden's reputation as it is, ie. the small car segment is the biggest in Australia and how Holden absolutely shat the bed in it.

Let me explain this via excel graph of some small cars on sale here:



When I upgrade my phone every 2 or 3 years, I just look whatever the latest Galaxy is and buy it. I used to care about phones and do my research, but I don't bother anymore because I'm used to the operating system of Galaxies, I know they're a decent phone and I know what to expect when I buy one. For some people cars would be the same, they go to trade in their old car for a newer version of what they already have because they want the new car to be similar to the old one.

But Holden has gone from offering a decent, if unreliable, European hatch twenty years ago, to a more expensive European hatch fifteen years ago while proceeding to offer cheap s**t on the side, ten years ago transitioning to only offering cheap s**t in the form of the Cruze. Then fifteen years ago, that decent European hatch that Holden used to sell has now appeared again as an Opel, only to suddenly turn into the new Holden Astra again despite Holden only trading in cheap s**t for the past ten years. Nobody who liked the Astra for what it was would have bought a Cruze and nobody who liked the Cruze for what it was would have bought an Astra. And with a ten year gap (or 8 under different badges) between Astras, all of those previous buyers probably went out and bought a 3 or a Golf instead, which they're now happy with.

 

[edgie]

I don't know man, they had a crack with the Epica, the Malibu and then the Insignia and they all flopped hard.

They flopped because they were also competing with the Commodore.

I think you've just got to step back and acknowledge that private buyers just weren't interested in boring, basic sedans anymore and fleet buyers were well and truly enamoured with Hybrid Camrys to consider anything else. It's not just Holden either; the next biggest seller after the Camry & Commodore in the mid or large size sedan department is the Mazda6 which goes at about 200 units per month.

I acknowledge it, but do you think in going with the Opel hatchback they tried to maintain those who were? The people who wanted a full size sedan? The people that like to put a Chev badge on things? The attempt to replace the Commodore with something so different was a real failure of identity.

Nail in the coffin was when Opel/Vauxhall was sold and with it, GM's only source of respectable RHD product. If we're being honest, the Equinox and the Acadia were okay, but Australians just don't do cars that were styled in Detroit and nothing about them was good enough to overcome that.

I beg to differ regarding the Detroit styling, there was also in my experience a bit of a boycott following the Aussie withdrawl of otherwise Holden buyers.

And while we're half on the topic, continually chopping and changing model lines within segments has probably done untold damage to Holden's reputation as it is, ie. the small car segment is the biggest in Australia and how Holden absolutely shat the bed in it.

Let me explain this via excel graph of some small cars on sale here:

View attachment 827808

When I upgrade my phone every 2 or 3 years, I just look whatever the latest Galaxy is and buy it. I used to care about phones and do my research, but I don't bother anymore because I'm used to the operating system of Galaxies, I know they're a decent phone and I know what to expect when I buy one. For some people cars would be the same, they go to trade in their old car for a newer version of what they already have because they want the new car to be similar to the old one.

But Holden has gone from offering a decent, if unreliable, European hatch twenty years ago, to a more expensive European hatch fifteen years ago while proceeding to offer cheap s**t on the side, ten years ago transitioning to only offering cheap s**t in the form of the Cruze. Then fifteen years ago, that decent European hatch that Holden used to sell has now appeared again as an Opel, only to suddenly turn into the new Holden Astra again despite Holden only trading in cheap s**t for the past ten years. Nobody who liked the Astra for what it was would have bought a Cruze and nobody who liked the Cruze for what it was would have bought an Astra. And with a ten year gap (or 8 under different badges) between Astras, all of those previous buyers probably went out and bought a 3 or a Golf instead, which they're now happy with.

Don't disagree with that. But on that note don't you think the people that were going to give the new Commodore a chance would have been pretty alienated by the fact that it was so fundamentally different from the previous models?

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[WCErevival]

Holden put themself into a hole. They relied soley on the Commodore for 30 years but in the end the image they created worked against them. Once sedans started dying in the arse they were left with a small group of die hards and everyone else wanted to distance themself from the brand.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

They flopped because they were also competing with the Commodore.



I acknowledge it, but do you think in going with the Opel hatchback they tried to maintain those who were? The people who wanted a full size sedan? The people that like to put a Chev badge on things? The attempt to replace the Commodore with something so different was a real failure of identity.



I beg to differ regarding the Detroit styling, there was also in my experience a bit of a boycott following the Aussie withdrawl of otherwise Holden buyers.


Don't disagree with that. But on that note don't you think the people that were going to give the new Commodore a chance would have been pretty alienated by the fact that it was so fundamentally different from the previous models?

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The 2000 sales per month difference between the VF and the ZB was that the VF was made in Australia, therefore attracting interest from government fleets and other large corporates who pledge to buy local product, and the VF was available with a V8. It's not the fact the ZB was technically a mid-size sedan because it, like the Camry and Mazda6, are virtually just as big as the last Falcons and Commodores were. GM obviously can't fulfill the first point of difference because they wound up Australian manufacturing, and GM didn't have another architecture that could have been made in right hand drive and could have accommodated a V8. Private buyers weren't buying V6 Commodores anymore; that's why the Commodore finished up selling 1500-2000 cars per month when previously it was 4000.

Having a V8 was huge; the portion of Commodores sold with a V8 in the later stages of its life were between 40 and 60%.

Out of all the cars that Holden could have brought to Australia to replace the Commodore, the Insignia was easily the best option. It was already being built in RHD, it was designed and built in Europe, it was available with a V6 and was the most modern car available. The LHD-only Malibu didn't have a V6 or all wheel drive and the Blimpala was a four year old car at the time.

To me it seems that no matter what Holden were able to replace the Commodore with, it was never going to be close to what the old car used to be for the very reasons in the first paragraph. Compare this to Ford; they basically stopped advertising the Falcon altogether in 2010 and the two facelifts of the FG were clearly done with minimal cost and fuss. Holden were happy to be the Commodore car company until the VF's last moment. Ford completely disassociated themself from their large car long before it expired and as it turns out, they're better for it.

Two things GM could have done differently to save Holden were building the Camaro in RHD and building the NA-spec Colorado in Thailand for our market, but I guess they were just not that serious about saving Holden.

 

[The Speaker]

Two things GM could have done differently to save Holden were building the Camaro in RHD and building the NA-spec Colorado in Thailand for our market, but I guess they were just not that serious about saving Holden.

Or being serious about exporting the Commodore, but I suspect their obsession with Chevrolet being the king of their little castle meant that was also impossible.

 

[edgie]

Or being serious about exporting the Commodore, but I suspect their obsession with Chevrolet being the king of their little castle meant that was also impossible.

In an alternate timeline the HQ gets left hand drive and who knows from there. Half a million made and success with exports across Indonesia and Africa (badged as Chev), who knows what might have happened with a go in LHD markets.

Also GM don't tank it by having some Yank head production that believes cars should handle like tanks and don't wait another seven years before implementing RTS.

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[edgie]

Or being serious about exporting the Commodore, but I suspect their obsession with Chevrolet being the king of their little castle meant that was also impossible.

Also in fairness there was some exporting going on and plans for more but the financial crisis broke GM. That and the Arab countries exploding with wealth and moving more up market than Holden.

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[The Speaker]

The end of Pontiac (which went with Bob Lutz) was really the end of Holden - the only way they were going to survive was if they became a unique exporter, and with the Monaro/GTO and then the Commodore/G8 they were on the way to doing that. But with Lutz out, Holden no longer had a champion for exports to the US. It was pretty clear that GM only exported the Commodore as the Chev SS because they had to.

It's another example of the tyranny of distance. The cars we made were perfect for the American market, which has similar tastes to ours, but few Americans pay attention to cars in Australia, because it's so far away and we drive on the 'wrong' side of the road. The few that got to drive our Commodores and Falcons loved them and recognised their quality - but that wasn't enough.

 

[Scotland]

The GM HFV6 was also tied in. If you are already making them in Michigan and Mexico it makes no sense to import them from Australia.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

The end of Pontiac (which went with Bob Lutz) was really the end of Holden - the only way they were going to survive was if they became a unique exporter, and with the Monaro/GTO and then the Commodore/G8 they were on the way to doing that. But with Lutz out, Holden no longer had a champion for exports to the US. It was pretty clear that GM only exported the Commodore as the Chev SS because they had to.

It's another example of the tyranny of distance. The cars we made were perfect for the American market, which has similar tastes to ours, but few Americans pay attention to cars in Australia, because it's so far away and we drive on the 'wrong' side of the road. The few that got to drive our Commodores and Falcons loved them and recognised their quality - but that wasn't enough.

Don't think it was just the Lutz departure; Pontiac as a brand was a casualty of the wider calamity that was GM during the GFC. Virtually every plan for expansion GM had drawn up prior to 2007 was binned and the company reverted to focusing on pick ups and full-size SUVs; Holden provided neither so all of future plans for the Zeta platform were scrapped as well.

In a lot of ways, GM are still paying for the GFC now. In a normal car company, the Commodore would have never lasted on a stand-alone platform for as long as it did and would have been twinned with some other American, RWD car but GM wasn't a normal car company. Economies of scale never meant anything to the big 3 and it nearly killed them as a result.

 

[The Speaker]

Don't think it was just the Lutz departure; Pontiac as a brand was a casualty of the wider calamity that was GM during the GFC. Virtually every plan for expansion GM had drawn up prior to 2007 was binned and the company reverted to focusing on pick ups and full-size SUVs; Holden provided neither so all of future plans for the Zeta platform were scrapped as well.

In a lot of ways, GM are still paying for the GFC now. In a normal car company, the Commodore would have never lasted on a stand-alone platform for as long as it did and would have been twinned with some other American, RWD car but GM wasn't a normal car company. Economies of scale never meant anything to the big 3 and it nearly killed them as a result.

Yes, but Lutz indicated that the G8 was too good not to keep using, even after Pontiac went. He was gone not long after he said that, though.

 

[edgie]

GM should have had a crack at exporting the ute. Yanks haven't had utes since the 80s.

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[Syd]

From my childhood, at least footy and meat pies are still around.

Four'N'Twenty has gone plant-based with meat free pies
Ripping into a Four'N'Twenty meat pie from the servo is about as Aussie as it gets and now vegetarians can ...

www.9news.com.au

 

[craigos]

Four'N'Twenty has gone plant-based with meat free pies
Ripping into a Four'N'Twenty meat pie from the servo is about as Aussie as it gets and now vegetarians can ...

www.9news.com.au

I just assumed it had always been meat free.

 

[Scotland]

GM should have had a crack at exporting the ute. Yanks haven't had utes since the 80s.

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They sold the Clubsport and Maloo as Vaxhaul VXR8s in England but no one wanted them.

US car sales are similar to ours except they have more 'pick-ups' and bigger versions of them. The ute was planned as a Pontiac variant but died before it got off the ground. I don't think it would have been a big seller. Your average 'murican would rather have a Dodge Ram or Ford F Series than a sedan with a tray.

 

[Hawk Dork]

I just assumed it had always been meat free.

Im sure it mainly was
Ive avoided them for decades I might try one now
It will be nice to have a no gristle variety