WikiLeaks The enemy within

[OldBlueFan]

Just out of interest (and this in no way affects his right to a legitimate trial process), what are your opinions on Assange taking money from the Kremlin and how this will affect his ability to advocate for a greater democratic proccess and a free press?

Judging him before he's even appeared on RT Reaper? How very fair and balanced of you. How about you wait until he's appeared before you throw insinuations around?

Anyway, last time I checked, the Kremlin was not exactly a cosy pal of western governments, so I don't think their funding of a talk show hosted by Assange will negatively impact "his ability to advocate for a greater democratic proccess (sic) and a free press" in the west at all.

In fact, if you were truly concerned about governments having an adverse affect on this ability, why aren't you railing against the pressure that the US put on Paypal, Visa and Mastercard to prevent the funding of Wikileaks?

Guess you're not as interested in a free press as you'd like to make out.

 

[Admiral Byng]

No, what I'm specifically referring to is your insistence on it. Why aren't we hearing you advocate for the leaders of this country who were explicitly involved in the illegal slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis being investigated for their crimes?

Further, it is actually international law that all governments who signed on to a particular UN treaty (I can't remember which one) have a responsibility to pursue and prosecute war criminals wherever they may be and wherever they may have committed their crimes.

Lastly ... the bolded bit is a joke right? You've got an individual who is the scourge of governments everywhere, who's been accused by the leader of his own country as having acted illegally - when he's done nothing of the sort - who was briefly under investigation while in Sweden, but cleared of any wrongdoing. Then, on the eve of his organisation's biggest release of secret government malfeasance yet, he suddenly becomes the target of a re-investigation of the alleged incident in Sweden ... oh yes, the Swede are acting completely independently.

No seriously, I see Sweden acting independently. It would of course be very convenient for other governments around the world to have him locked up and his credibility ruined, there's no doubting that. But all I can see so far is that it's just a convenient coincidence. The women making the claims, and standing by them, were both former supporters of the work Wikileaks was doing. The case was re-opened because the two women appealed against the decision to drop the charges - I don't know the vagaries of the Swedish legal system very well, but I think that gives an indication where the pressure to re-open the case comes from, not some backroom dealing.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

The women making the claims, and standing by them, were both former supporters of the work Wikileaks was doing.

One of them, a radical femi-nazi, blogged about why women should use false rape accusations against men as revenge

 

[OldBlueFan]

No seriously, I see Sweden acting independently. It would of course be very convenient for other governments around the world to have him locked up and his credibility ruined, there's no doubting that. But all I can see so far is that it's just a convenient coincidence. The women making the claims, and standing by them, were both former supporters of the work Wikileaks was doing. The case was re-opened because the two women appealed against the decision to drop the charges - I don't know the vagaries of the Swedish legal system very well, but I think that gives an indication where the pressure to re-open the case comes from, not some backroom dealing.

In the face of the vast array evidence we have of the lengths that governments will go to in order to cover up their crimes and keep their secrets. Combined with the unprecedented window that we've been granted on these activities with the advent of Wikileaks. And combined with the massive smear campaign that has been instituted against Julian Assange in particular, you prefer believe that there was no political interference in this particular case?

Whatever it takes to help you feel like there's justice in the world I guess ... although it doesn't seem like reality has much of a role to play.

 

[Admiral Byng]

In the face of the vast array evidence we have of the lengths that governments will go to in order to cover up their crimes and keep their secrets. Combined with the unprecedented window that we've been granted on these activities with the advent of Wikileaks. And combined with the massive smear campaign that has been instituted against Julian Assange in particular, you prefer believe that there was no political interference in this particular case?

Whatever it takes to help you feel like there's justice in the world I guess ... although it doesn't seem like reality has much of a role to play.

Not the most flattering way to word it, but essentially, yes.

Even though his activities may be embarrassing or irritating for various governments, I don't think he is so important that it would draw an international conspiracy involving the likes of the USA and fiercely neutral Sweden doing backroom deals to silence him. He is not that important. Would they take advantage of the situation if it happened of it's own accord - probably yes, would they deliberately orchestrate such a situation - I don't think so. I think such a conspiracy theory as his side are putting forward is overstating things, could be the product of an over-inflated ego.

As for the second point. What is this justice thing you speak of? I live only in the real world.

 

[blackcat]

Irrelevant.

Commit a crime overseas you have to face their court system. You don't get let off and flown home back to Australia. Didn't happen for that Corby girl, didn't happen for that kid in Bali, didn't happen for that guy in jail in Romania. Why should Assange be any different? He needs to go to Sweden and face their court.

Jock Palfreyman from Syd North Shore? He is in jail in Sofia Belaris

an anarchist wielding a blade will always find refuge in cntreal or eastern euro gulag this time in belarus. Dad is deluded

 

[blackcat]

They were caught with Narcotics red handed, they got consular assistance and saturation media coverage.

Relate that again to Assange?

Assange has committed the crime of being a prat with a profile. Not uncommon crime. Infact more common than not.

Plus the fact he has asbergers or some other high functioning autistic spectrum, and his bloody white hair, makes him look like an albino villain out of the Davinci Code. Just saying the "The Davinci Code" should make you get 100 whippings from a Malaysian court, not the Richard Wolstencroft Hellfire variety. If you look like a villain, send him to Abu Dahbi, and castrate him.

 

[blackcat]

One of them, a radical femi-nazi, blogged about why women should use false rape accusations against men as revenge

yeah I liked that. She was jette snug, very cute in Svenske, but had very thin lips but gret cheekbones both like the actress Dunst

 

[Admiral Byng]

Jock Palfreyman from Syd North Shore? He is in jail in Sofia Belaris

an anarchist wielding a blade will always find refuge in cntreal or eastern euro gulag this time in belarus. Dad is deluded

Ah - Bulgaria. Thanks for the correction.

 

[blackcat]

ahh yeah, just looking for a director who's from Sofia, brain spasm

 

[OldBlueFan]

As for the second point. What is this justice thing you speak of? I live only in the real world.

I'm sorry, I thought it was you who said this:

Irrelevant.

Commit a crime overseas you have to face their court system. You don't get let off and flown home back to Australia. Didn't happen for that Corby girl, didn't happen for that kid in Bali, didn't happen for that guy in jail in Romania. Why should Assange be any different? He needs to go to Sweden and face their court.

If not a call for justice, on what basis do you insist that he "needs to go face a court"?

You insist that he go back to Sweden, you claim you don't believe this is politically motivated, ergo, you think it's just part of some mythical even-handed justice system.

Or, is that you truly don't believe there's justice in the world, as you now claim, and just want to see justice administered upon this particular person?

 

[Admiral Byng]

I'm sorry, I thought it was you who said this:



If not a call for justice, on what basis do you insist that he "needs to go face a court"?

You insist that he go back to Sweden, you claim you don't believe this is politically motivated, ergo, you think it's just part of some mythical even-handed justice system.

Or, is that you truly don't believe there's justice in the world, as you now claim, and just want to see justice administered upon this particular person?

I think we need a special sarcasm font.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

Plus the fact he has asbergers or some other high functioning autistic spectrum.

And you don't?

 

[blackcat]

And you don't?

sans svenske minge tho. I prefer his lot.

 

[Upton Sinclair]

Ah I dunno, those svenskes have some strange ideas about feminism, I don't think we'd get along tbh

 

[rayven]

Apparantly after some crime Assange has apparantly commited that has led to over 400 days of house arrest as the US introduce laws that could see him extridited, one of the victims was reccomending him....

Stolkholme syndrome anyone? well stolkholme is pretty near by?

 

[blackcat]

Apparantly after some crime Assange has apparantly commited that has led to over 400 days of house arrest as the US introduce laws that could see him extridited, one of the victims was reccomending him....

Stolkholme syndrome anyone? well stolkholme is pretty near by?

the older one in Stockholm? Would not buy any conspiracies there, but she was a trot or someone on the scale where she found a footing in militant feminism. She was the more aggressive allegation, but the prosecutor finds this instance the less severe case, if any case, only a harassment in the rape laws. There were some morsels she had ties to US foreign operators, I tended to dismiss these as mere muddying the waters and trying to smear her.

She was the one who tweeted she was hanging round with "interesting people" read: sleeping with the white haired on from Davinci Code.

Ray, I assume you were using some of my fuzzy licence wrt stokholm syndrome, but the prisoner in this instance, Assange, has been militant in defense, and is quite enjoying (by the looks of it) his infamy, and the life of Vaughn Smith's fenced acred estate.

For someone who once talked about time in Kenyan communes saying his activism with WL brought lovers like knighthoods, the emphasis in my reading, knighthoods, and enjoying the old world aristocracy of Vaugh Smith's heritage, he certainly has a few manifest contradictions. But dont think he has been taken by any psychology bounded within a stockholm syndrome definition.

 

[Grin]

Gingrich obviously has scant regard for the intelligence of the average American

Like Abbott, he assumes the people who vote for him are very stupid.

Must be a right wing thing.

 

[cancat]

Being an Australian citizen is not an automatic defence for committing crimes in another country.

"The WikiLeaks guy should be in jail for the rest of his life” said Gingrich.

Presumably he meant an American jail. So Gingrich would apply for Assange to be extradicted and tried in the USA.

i) it would make it a lot easier to extradite him if he was already locked up in Sweden, and it puts pressure on him to stop his Wikileaks activity - which is why many people are suspiscious of the Swedish legal action

ii) the internet muddies the water about committing crimes in another country. The "crimes" Gingrich is talking about were not committed in the USA. Under what circumstances should extradition be approved in these circumstances? We are expected to know Australian law because we live here, and when we travel we are expected to know the laws of the countries we go to. But sitting here in my house using the internet, how can I know that I haven't broken a law in the USA, Pakistan or China by clicking a link, expressing a certain opinion or publishing information that was provided to me?

 

[Admiral Byng]

"The WikiLeaks guy should be in jail for the rest of his life” said Gingrich.

Presumably he meant an American jail. So Gingrich would apply for Assange to be extradicted and tried in the USA.

i) it would make it a lot easier to extradite him if he was already locked up in Sweden, and it puts pressure on him to stop his Wikileaks activity - which is why many people are suspiscious of the Swedish legal action

ii) the internet muddies the water about committing crimes in another country. The "crimes" Gingrich is talking about were not committed in the USA. Under what circumstances should extradition be approved in these circumstances? We are expected to know Australian law because we live here, and when we travel we are expected to know the laws of the countries we go to. But sitting here in my house using the internet, how can I know that I haven't broken a law in the USA, Pakistan or China by clicking a link, expressing a certain opinion or publishing information that was provided to me?

Jesus Christ! It's like banging ones head on a brick wall in this thread. None of this is a valid excuse for avoiding the Swedish legal system. They must be treated separately. If he is suspected of committing a crime under Swedish law they have every right to seek him out for trial.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Jesus Christ! It's like banging ones head on a brick wall in this thread. None of this is a valid excuse for avoiding the Swedish legal system. They must be treated separately. If he is suspected of committing a crime under Swedish law they have every right to seek him out for trial.

Perhaps not, but this might be:

European Convention on Extradition

Article 9 – Non bis in idem

Extradition shall not be granted if final judgment has been passed by the competent authorities of the requested Party upon the person claimed in respect of the offence or offences for which extradition is requested. Extradition may be refused if the competent authorities of the requested Party have decided either not to institute or to terminate proceedings in respect of the same offence or offences.

 

[Max zero]

Not the most flattering way to word it, but essentially, yes.

Even though his activities may be embarrassing or irritating for various governments, I don't think he is so important that it would draw an international conspiracy involving the likes of the USA and fiercely neutral Sweden doing backroom deals to silence him. He is not that important. Would they take advantage of the situation if it happened of it's own accord - probably yes, would they deliberately orchestrate such a situation - I don't think so. I think such a conspiracy theory as his side are putting forward is overstating things, could be the product of an over-inflated ego.

As for the second point. What is this justice thing you speak of? I live only in the real world.

They don't need to, the US government has already done a deal to stop people from being able to donate to wikileaks.

 

[blackcat]

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