The Essendon Hamstring

[ant555]

Well put Ant robus. In brief, there is always room for improvement, and there are complexities in our injuries that EFC may or may not be dealing with correctly.

Are you calling our old physios and medicos pig headed and inflexible , or the new ones ?

I think a few of our old guys are a bit set in their ways and views and are reluctant to source help/ideas from other areas.

 

[ant555]

I think the theory is a load of crap. Maybe Brukner should do a little more research over the past few years. I reckon he's forming an opinion only on current events.

Here's players drafted over the past 3 years with soft tissue problems:

2005 - Dempsey, Neagle, Lonergan
2006 - Gumbleton, Jetta
2007 - Myers

If you compare that to other kids that have been drafted then I think we fair poorly.

2005 - Murphy, Thomas, Pendlebury, Higgins, Jones, Hurn, Birchall, etc, etc
2006 - Gibbs, Luey, Hansen, Boak, Selwood, etc, etc
2007 - Kruezer, Masten, Morton, Palmer, Rioli, Ebert

All these guys have been on the park a lot longer than our players.

If you look at our 2005 draft we've had barely any input from them as they've always been injured. FFS its their third year.

Would not have said neagle has a history of soft tissue problems. His biggest issue has been stress fractures in the foot. Lonergan has not had a history of soft tissue injuries either. He has had a lower back problem, a few corkies and a knee problem up until friday.
It is very easy to just single out a few players to make a comparison and your list is not accurate anyway. Kruezer , Masten and Morton all missed time during pre season and the season is not over yet. Leuenberger spent time on the side lines last year. You cant just single out 5 or 6 players and compare them to our blokes. You have to judge over the whole draft for each year.

 

[GoDons]

I think the theory is a load of crap. Maybe Brukner should do a little more research over the past few years. I reckon he's forming an opinion only on current events.

Then what do you put it down to? What are the fitness staff doing wrong?

Brukner's theory lines up. Players like Jetta, Dempsey and Lonergan are taking on fitness loads like nothing they've ever taken on before on the back of four months of training. Conditioning is a very long process, and for these guys to be able to continually run out games from the midfield, they're going to need more than 4 months of it. Injuries were always a possibility given the enormous climb in work rate.

I think our fitness staff didn't taper the load the loads of Welsh, Hocking, Lloyd and McPhee early enough, and they've let us down through that, but there's no basis for suggesting that the fitness staff are directly responsible for the Dempsey, Jetta and Lonergan injuries. Those blokes were in the best shape of their careers, but when you're their age, you're still not in the best shape for being an AFL midfielder and playing there prematurely leaves open the possibility of injury.

There may be a long chain of soft tissue injuries, but training methods have chained too drastically to suggest they're related and there are logical explanations as to why they're occuring.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Would not have said neagle has a history of soft tissue problems. His biggest issue has been stress fractures in the foot. Lonergan has not had a history of soft tissue injuries either. He has had a lower back problem, a few corkies and a knee problem up until friday.
It is very easy to just single out a few players to make a comparison and your list is not accurate anyway. Kruezer , Masten and Morton all missed time during pre season and the season is not over yet. Leuenberger spent time on the side lines last year. You cant just single out 5 or 6 players and compare them to our blokes. You have to judge over the whole draft for each year.

Ant, don't get me started on Neagle again... . I take it he didn't play again today.

The fact that others have had niggles is irrelevant when they are all playing and not missing large chunks of the season.

You could say that more than half of our top 10 picks of the last 3 years have missed significant amounts of the season. That's not good enough and there needs to an investigation coming from people outside the club.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Then what do you put it down to? What are the fitness staff doing wrong?

Brukner's theory lines up. Players like Jetta, Dempsey and Lonergan are taking on fitness loads like nothing they've ever taken on before on the back of four months of training.

I'm not sure what the answer is but when a company is not performing you look at getting external help and reviewing whats gone wrong.

As for Brukeners theory, it's crap because it's been happening for a long long time.

 

[ant555]

Ant, don't get me started on Neagle again... . I take it he didn't play again today.

The fact that others have had niggles is irrelevant when they are all playing and not missing large chunks of the season.

You could say that more than half of our top 10 picks of the last 3 years have missed significant amounts of the season. That's not good enough and there needs to an investigation coming from people outside the club.

This season is not over yet so how can you put the 2007 draftee's in it. No one has missed any large chunks of the season becasue it is only 4 weeks old. Who's to say that a few you mentioned like Morton ,Kreuzer etc are going to be injury free and play 15 to 18 games?

 

[The Dustbin]

I'm pointing the finger at Quinn. This has been going on far to long and has now hit a all time high for soft tissue injuries. A review has to take place.

 

[ant555]

I'm pointing the finger at Quinn. This has been going on far to long and has now hit a all time high for soft tissue injuries. A review has to take place.

Yes but is Quinn responsable for the hiring and firing of the mediacl staff

 

[stander]

Yes but is Quinn responsable for the hiring and firing of the mediacl staff

Don't be silly Ant robus, you can't hire and fire furniture.

 

[The Dustbin]

Yes but is Quinn responsable for the hiring and firing of the mediacl staff

Quinn is responsible for their fitness programs, is he not?

 

[ant555]

Don't be silly Ant robus, you can't hire and fire furniture.

lol true

 

[GoDons]

I'm not sure what the answer is but when a company is not performing you look at getting external help and reviewing whats gone wrong.

As for Brukeners theory, it's crap because it's been happening for a long long time.

In my opinion, Brukner's theory lines up.

I don't believe injuries from previous years are particularly relevant. The game has advanced in fitness demands remarkably each year over the last few years, and on top of that our training and match preparations are always changing.

Given there's no massive trend in our training regime, the causes of our injuries are not parallel.

I blame our fitness staff for the injuries to McPhee, Lloyd, Welsh and Hocking, but that's it. I think there are valid excuses for the others.

You can think what you like though, it's not a question that can be readily answered.

 

[ant555]

Quinn is responsible for their fitness programs, is he not?

Yes he is. So because you know that the fitness program is the sole problem we have then you have the answer ?
I will give you a tip , the problems lie across a few areas and some of them are out of Quinn's area of command

 

[The Dustbin]

Yes he is. So because you know that the fitness program is the sole problem we have then you have the answer ?
I will give you a tip , the problems lie across a few areas and some of them are out of Quinn's area of command

Why don't you stop being so cocky and smug and just say what the areas are. Otherwise refrain from making such statements.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

In my opinion, Brukner's theory lines up.

I don't believe injuries from previous years are particularly relevant. The game has advanced in fitness demands remarkably each year over the last few years, and on top of that our training and match preparations are always changing.

Given there's no massive trend in our training regime, the causes of our injuries are not parallel.

I blame our fitness staff for the injuries to McPhee, Lloyd, Welsh and Hocking, but that's it. I think there are valid excuses for the others.

You can think what you like though, it's not a question that can be readily answered.

Taken from bomberblitz. Not good. Not sure how it compares to other clubs but I don't any others are worse for soft tissue.

Past injuries

Dempsey, Courtenay
2008 - hamstring (Round 2)
2007 - hamstring x 5
2007 pre-season - elbow, groin
2006 - ankle, groin, leg
Dyson, Ricky
2007 pre-season - wrist surgery, hamstring
2006 pre-season - quad strain
2005 - OP
Fletcher, Dustin
2008 - knee (ongoing)
2007 - calf, ribs x 2, knee, groin
2007 pre-season - leg
2006 - knee soreness, dislocated finger, leg/groin, ribs, back, hamstring
2005 - ankle, hamstring
Gumbleton, Scott
2008 pre-season - hamstringx2
2007 - hamstring
2007 pre-season - knee
Hille, David
2008 - neck (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - knock to shoulder
2007 - chest, hamstring, shins
2006 - dislocated finger
2006 pre-season - back soreness
2005 - ankle, calf
Hislop, Tom
2008 - wrist & surgery (Round 2)
2008 pre-season - knee corkie
2007 - shoulder, stress fractures in ankle, shoulder surgery
2007 pre-season - foot, calf
Hocking, Heath
2008 - adductor release for OP (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - groin (OP)
2007 - nose, hamstring
2007 pre-season - ankle, quad
2006 - foot
2006 pre-season- quad strain
2005 - broken arm
Jetta, Leroy
2008 - hamstring (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - nose
2007 - groin, shoulder, quad, adductor release for OP
2007 pre-season - leg
Johns, Courtney
2008 - quad (Round 2)
2008 pre-season - shoulder surgery, corked buttock
2007 - concussion, shoulder x 2, knee
2007 pre-season - bruised hip
2006 - broken rib, leg/groin, broken ribs
2006 pre-season - hamstring, shoulder, ankle
2005 - hamstring
2003-2005 - hip
Johnson, Jason
2007 - groin, groin surgery
2007 pre-season - foot (toe) & surgery
2006 pre-season - foot surgery
2005 - hip, cheekbone
Laycock, Jason
2008 - facial injury (Round 4)
2007 - mouth, arm, shins, eye, calf
2007 pre-season - leg, hamstring
2006 - quad, knee arthroscope, shoulder surgery
2006 pre-season - shoulder surgery, knee arthroscope, ankle surgery
2005 - calf, shoulder, knee
Lee, Andrew
2008 - shoulder (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - calf
2007 - shoulder
2007 pre-season - foot fracture
2006 - eye, ankle
2006 pre-season - ankle
2005 - OP
Lloyd, Matthew
2008 - calf (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 - thigh, hamstring
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 - hamstring
2006 pre-season - leg soreness
2005 - ankle, broken arm, calf
Lonergan, Sam
2008 - hamstring (Round 4)
2007 - hand, knee
2007 pre-season - ankle
2006 - back, groin
Lovett-Murray, Nathan
2008 - finger & groin (Round 2)
2007 - groin x 2
2005 - hamstring
Lucas, Scott
2008 - knee (PCL) (Round 1)
2008 pre-season - ankle surgery
2007 - groin
2007 pre-season - hip arthroscope, mumps
2006 pre-season - thumb surgery, foot surgery
McPhee, Adam
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 pre-season - shoulder
2006 - shoulder
2006 pre-season - adductor release, knee, stitches to face injury
2005 - knee tendonitis, OP
McVeigh, Mark
2008 - hamstring (Round 4)
2006 - back spasms
2005 - hamstring
Michael, Mal
2008 pre-season - hamstring tightness
Monfries, Angus
2008 - virus (Round 4)
2006 - knock to head, calf
2006 pre-season - shoulder surgery
2005 - shoulder
Myers, David
2008 - hamstring (Round 1)
2008 pre-season - hamstring twinge
Nash, Jay
2007 - shins, concussion
2007 pre-season - foot surgery
2006 - foot
2006 pre-season - broken thumb
2005 - shoulder
Neagle, Jay
2008 foot (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - ankle surgery (stress fractures), knock to ankle
2007 - stress fractures, hamstring
2006 - leg, ankle surgery
2006 pre-season - thigh
Peverill, Damien
2008 - stitches to face injury (Round 3)
2007 - ribs
2005 - shin splints
Ramanauskas, Adam
2008 - corked hip (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - shoulder
2007 - adductor, back
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 pre-season - recurrence of fibromatosis
2005 - hamstring, knee reconstruction
Reimers, Kyle
2008 pre-season - leg, twisted ankle
2007 - calf/ankle, groin
2007 pre-season - quad, bruised ribs
Ryder, Patrick
2007 - achilles
2007 pre-season - ankle surgery
2006 - hamstring, ankle
Slattery, Henry
2007 - hamstring
2007 pre-season - hip arthroscope
2006 - hamstring, quad x3
2006 pre-season - knee surgery, ankle
2005 - calf, knee
Stanton, Brent
2007 - ankle/calf, hamstring
2007 pre-season - groin
2006 - shoulder
2006 pre-season - leg
2005- hernia
Watson, Jobe
2008 - stitches to face injury (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - quad
2007 - foot
2006 - corked knee
2006 pre-season - ankle
2005 - quads
Welsh, Andrew
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 - hamstring x 2
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 - leg (stress fractures)
2005 - shoulder
Winderlich, Jason
2008 - hamstring twinge (Round 3), groin? (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - back/leg
2007 - hamstring x 2
2007 pre-season - calf
2006 - fractured fibula, concussion
2005 - knee

 

[The Dustbin]

Taken from bomberblitz. Not good. Not sure how it compares to other clubs but I don't any others are worse for soft tissue.

Past injuries

Dempsey, Courtenay
2008 - hamstring (Round 2)
2007 - hamstring x 5
2007 pre-season - elbow, groin
2006 - ankle, groin, leg
Dyson, Ricky
2007 pre-season - wrist surgery, hamstring
2006 pre-season - quad strain
2005 - OP
Fletcher, Dustin
2008 - knee (ongoing)
2007 - calf, ribs x 2, knee, groin
2007 pre-season - leg
2006 - knee soreness, dislocated finger, leg/groin, ribs, back, hamstring
2005 - ankle, hamstring
Gumbleton, Scott
2008 pre-season - hamstringx2
2007 - hamstring
2007 pre-season - knee
Hille, David
2008 - neck (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - knock to shoulder
2007 - chest, hamstring, shins
2006 - dislocated finger
2006 pre-season - back soreness
2005 - ankle, calf
Hislop, Tom
2008 - wrist & surgery (Round 2)
2008 pre-season - knee corkie
2007 - shoulder, stress fractures in ankle, shoulder surgery
2007 pre-season - foot, calf
Hocking, Heath
2008 - adductor release for OP (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - groin (OP)
2007 - nose, hamstring
2007 pre-season - ankle, quad
2006 - foot
2006 pre-season- quad strain
2005 - broken arm
Jetta, Leroy
2008 - hamstring (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - nose
2007 - groin, shoulder, quad, adductor release for OP
2007 pre-season - leg
Johns, Courtney
2008 - quad (Round 2)
2008 pre-season - shoulder surgery, corked buttock
2007 - concussion, shoulder x 2, knee
2007 pre-season - bruised hip
2006 - broken rib, leg/groin, broken ribs
2006 pre-season - hamstring, shoulder, ankle
2005 - hamstring
2003-2005 - hip
Johnson, Jason
2007 - groin, groin surgery
2007 pre-season - foot (toe) & surgery
2006 pre-season - foot surgery
2005 - hip, cheekbone
Laycock, Jason
2008 - facial injury (Round 4)
2007 - mouth, arm, shins, eye, calf
2007 pre-season - leg, hamstring
2006 - quad, knee arthroscope, shoulder surgery
2006 pre-season - shoulder surgery, knee arthroscope, ankle surgery
2005 - calf, shoulder, knee
Lee, Andrew
2008 - shoulder (Round 3)
2008 pre-season - calf
2007 - shoulder
2007 pre-season - foot fracture
2006 - eye, ankle
2006 pre-season - ankle
2005 - OP
Lloyd, Matthew
2008 - calf (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 - thigh, hamstring
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 - hamstring
2006 pre-season - leg soreness
2005 - ankle, broken arm, calf
Lonergan, Sam
2008 - hamstring (Round 4)
2007 - hand, knee
2007 pre-season - ankle
2006 - back, groin
Lovett-Murray, Nathan
2008 - finger & groin (Round 2)
2007 - groin x 2
2005 - hamstring
Lucas, Scott
2008 - knee (PCL) (Round 1)
2008 pre-season - ankle surgery
2007 - groin
2007 pre-season - hip arthroscope, mumps
2006 pre-season - thumb surgery, foot surgery
McPhee, Adam
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 pre-season - shoulder
2006 - shoulder
2006 pre-season - adductor release, knee, stitches to face injury
2005 - knee tendonitis, OP
McVeigh, Mark
2008 - hamstring (Round 4)
2006 - back spasms
2005 - hamstring
Michael, Mal
2008 pre-season - hamstring tightness
Monfries, Angus
2008 - virus (Round 4)
2006 - knock to head, calf
2006 pre-season - shoulder surgery
2005 - shoulder
Myers, David
2008 - hamstring (Round 1)
2008 pre-season - hamstring twinge
Nash, Jay
2007 - shins, concussion
2007 pre-season - foot surgery
2006 - foot
2006 pre-season - broken thumb
2005 - shoulder
Neagle, Jay
2008 foot (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - ankle surgery (stress fractures), knock to ankle
2007 - stress fractures, hamstring
2006 - leg, ankle surgery
2006 pre-season - thigh
Peverill, Damien
2008 - stitches to face injury (Round 3)
2007 - ribs
2005 - shin splints
Ramanauskas, Adam
2008 - corked hip (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - shoulder
2007 - adductor, back
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 pre-season - recurrence of fibromatosis
2005 - hamstring, knee reconstruction
Reimers, Kyle
2008 pre-season - leg, twisted ankle
2007 - calf/ankle, groin
2007 pre-season - quad, bruised ribs
Ryder, Patrick
2007 - achilles
2007 pre-season - ankle surgery
2006 - hamstring, ankle
Slattery, Henry
2007 - hamstring
2007 pre-season - hip arthroscope
2006 - hamstring, quad x3
2006 pre-season - knee surgery, ankle
2005 - calf, knee
Stanton, Brent
2007 - ankle/calf, hamstring
2007 pre-season - groin
2006 - shoulder
2006 pre-season - leg
2005- hernia
Watson, Jobe
2008 - stitches to face injury (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - quad
2007 - foot
2006 - corked knee
2006 pre-season - ankle
2005 - quads
Welsh, Andrew
2008 pre-season - hamstring
2007 - hamstring x 2
2007 pre-season - hamstring
2006 - leg (stress fractures)
2005 - shoulder
Winderlich, Jason
2008 - hamstring twinge (Round 3), groin? (Round 4)
2008 pre-season - back/leg
2007 - hamstring x 2
2007 pre-season - calf
2006 - fractured fibula, concussion
2005 - knee

That's damning.

There are currently 14 players out injured at the moment in the AFL with soft tissue injuries. Half of them are from Ess.

 

[ant555]

Why don't you stop being so cocky and smug and just say what the areas are. Otherwise refrain from making such statements.

Pretty sure i already have
But just for you are you obviously havnt read the whole thread

Yes we do appear to have a problem. Personally i have a couple of question marks over some aspects of our weights program and also about some stories i have heard about our doctors and physio's not always being open to outside ideas. I also have some concerns about the efforts our players put into their preperation at times as i have seen Quinn roasting a few of the players for not doing the correct stretching and warmups before certain training sessions over the last 4 years.
I suspect their are a number of things contributing to what the real problem is and i dont think aiming sole responsabilties on Quinn is the answer as i dont think it is the fitness program alone that is causing the problem.

Also made coment on it in another thread here. Maybe you should stop being so complacent and then you may have read what poeple have had to say

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

On Footy Classifieds last night they had a soft tissue ladder of the past 2 years.

We led it with 21 I think. Next best was 14.

 

[Merv]

On Footy Classifieds last night they had a soft tissue ladder of the past 2 years.

We led it with 21 I think. Next best was 14.

I also believe that if they had stats since 2001 we would lead that clearly also.

 

[Windas_Magic]

Essendon was first and Saints second (both use Telstra Dome a hell of a lot)

 

[The Dustbin]

Pretty sure i already have
But just for you are you obviously havnt read the whole thread



Also made coment on it in another thread here. Maybe you should stop being so complacent and then you may have read what poeple have had to say

So you have diagnosed/guessed the reason why Ess have had so many soft tissue injuries.... Your a genius, why don't you tell PJ.
He might take you more seriously then me.

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

Mcveigh was looking so good and the hamstring must come down to the way the dons are playing. Myers,Mcveigh, Dempsey, Lonergan, Jetta, Gumby with all hammys whilst you missed N.L.M for when he was out and also have Welsh,Lloyd, Lucas all talented forwards out and struggling

 

[ant555]

So you have diagnosed/guessed the reason why Ess have had so many soft tissue injuries.... Your a genius, why don't you tell PJ.
He might take you more seriously then me.

Did you read the HS today champ ?
I give info based on what i see and on some of the stuff people i know at the club tell me. If you choose not to belive then it is no problem to me.

 

[The Dustbin]

Did you read the HS today champ ?
I give info based on what i see and on some of the stuff people i know at the club tell me. If you choose not to belive then it is no problem to me.

You write for the HS?

Yes we do appear to have a problem. Personally i have a couple of question marks over some aspects of our weights program and also about some stories i have heard about our doctors and physio's not always being open to outside ideas. I also have some concerns about the efforts our players put into their preperation at times as i have seen Quinn roasting a few of the players for not doing the correct stretching and warmups before certain training sessions over the last 4 years.
I suspect their are a number of things contributing to what the real problem is and i dont think aiming sole responsabilties on Quinn is the answer as i dont think it is the fitness program alone that is causing the problem.

Dermie would be proud of you.

 

[ant555]

You write for the HS?



Dermie would be proud of you.

Can't admit that there was some element of truth in what i said so once again you start playing the man.