Peptides! The *Essendrug Dopers: come smell the bull****! -PART 2

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TylerDurden

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If you get pick 7 for a injury prone hack why wouldn't you expect Fantisa to be worth pick 1, 2 and 3.

The whole afl system is a farcical corrupt joke. We know it. The clubs know it. Yet we are stupid enough to put up with it, year in year out, like it doesn't matter.
What can you do? Gil will do Gil.

We can only do what we can within the so called rules.
 

Leather Poisoning

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They did imo. Getting Pick seven for a bloke that has not played for two years is a dream result despite not getting two firsts last year. Geelong kept Kelly and it paid off.

Consider the we lost one of the best forwards ever on a massive deal for pick 19 at the top of his powers. It continues to sting every time the AFL pull sh*te like this our of their corrupt behinds.
They kept a guy for a year that didn't want to be there
They had the opportnity for a decent trade last year and decided to dick around with it

That's a talented kid they could have 'developed' for 12 months instead of trying to turn around this sinking ship.

They'll claim victory here but it's such a dumb move to keep players that want to leave.

Now they've got Sheedy around again you can expect lots of "sizzle but no steak" moves from the club. Lots of showmanship of ruthlessness and club loyalty. The reality will be decisions made from emotion and nostalgia in an increasingly professional industry.
 

LMGjr

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What can you do? Gil will do Gil.

We can only do what we can within the so called rules.
This is the problem, I keep waiting for the straw that breaks the camels back, but it seems the camels can carry any amount of BS.

On top of this the afl commission have 2 votes forevermore in GWS and GC, without the subsidy clubs who will never go against them, so yeah, nothing we can do except vote by not giving up our hard earned, but they've gotten around this by making us loyal to a fault, by implying that if we don't cough up our club isn't independent or going to survive.

It's probably the greatest monopoly of marketing and corruption in world sport.

Anyways, no point worrying over it.
 

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TylerDurden

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This is the problem, I keep waiting for the straw that breaks the camels back, but it seems the camels can carry any amount of BS.

On top of this the afl commission have 2 votes forevermore in GWS and GC, without the subsidy clubs who will never go against them, so yeah, nothing we can do except vote by not giving up our hard earned, but they've gotten around this by making us loyal to a fault, by implying that if we don't cough up our club isn't independent or going to survive.

It's probably the greatest monopoly of marketing and corruption in world sport.

Anyways, no point worrying over it.
You only have to look at Gil when he steps in re GWS. Cameron and Cogs. Say no more.

Then Dodo gets pick 7 for Joe coz he needs a strong Essendon.

I've given up. You just have to kick back and watch it unfold.
 

Books

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This is the problem, I keep waiting for the straw that breaks the camels back, but it seems the camels can carry any amount of BS.

On top of this the afl commission have 2 votes forevermore in GWS and GC, without the subsidy clubs who will never go against them, so yeah, nothing we can do except vote by not giving up our hard earned, but they've gotten around this by making us loyal to a fault, by implying that if we don't cough up our club isn't independent or going to survive.

It's probably the greatest monopoly of marketing and corruption in world sport.

Anyways, no point worrying over it.

Plus a tightly controlled media. All the hallmarks of a dictatorship.
 

Leather Poisoning

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Jesus we're a bit doom and gloomy in here.

I know it's been a shitty year and the AFL rule book reads like a set of Tarot cards - but if the AFL was actually conspiring for GWS, GC and Essendon that hard then at least one of them would have been successful by now.

Chin up - we've got Wrighty and Clarko around to focus on rule breaking and creative solutions. Every industry has it's corrupt overlords, and the industry leaders either get in bed with them or win despite them.

Or in Essendon's case - just hover middle of the road for a couple of decades.
 

eldorado

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If they are going to keep the stupid compensation rule, with it's ridiculous '11 secret herbs and spices' formula, they need to modify it.

I would rather they scrapped it totally, but at the very least:-

End of 3rd round pick for every UFA lost, regardless of the contract length, money etc. Just a very low level, mid 50s pick to get another draftee

NO COMPENSATION for a RFA if you decide not to match. The right to match is the safety net that the clubs wanted, to either keep a RFA, or get market value in a trade.

If they decide NOT to match, because they actually want the high compo pick, the easy charity option (Daniher 7 or the #2 pick the Crows wanted) because it's a rort, fu** 'em. They have chosen not to avail themselves of the tool put in place, because the welfare handout is easier...fu** 'em
 

cryptor

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If they are going to keep the stupid compensation rule, with it's ridiculous '11 secret herbs and spices' formula, they need to modify it.

I would rather they scrapped it totally, but at the very least:-

End of 3rd round pick for every UFA lost, regardless of the contract length, money etc. Just a very low level, mid 50s pick to get another draftee

NO COMPENSATION for a RFA if you decide not to match. The right to match is the safety net that the clubs wanted, to either keep a RFA, or get market value in a trade.

If they decide NOT to match, because they actually want the high compo pick, the easy charity option (Daniher 7 or the #2 pick the Crows wanted) because it's a rort, fu** 'em. They have chosen not to avail themselves of the tool put in place, because the welfare handout is easier...fu** 'em
Doesn't make sense that we'd get compo for Smith leaving as a 31 year old but nothing at all for Buddy leaving in his prime because we elected not to match a contract we could technically have matched but didn't because we knew it would end up as poorly as it has for the Swans.

I like the energy of your idea (that clubs shouldn't be able to elect for the charity) but the execution doesn't quite hold up.
 

eldorado

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Doesn't make sense that we'd get compo for Smith leaving as a 31 year old but nothing at all for Buddy leaving in his prime because we elected not to match a contract we could technically have matched but didn't because we knew it would end up as poorly as it has for the Swans.

I like the energy of your idea (that clubs shouldn't be able to elect for the charity) but the execution doesn't quite hold up.
Fair point,

Perhaps the AFL an upper contract limit needs to be stipulated, to ban 'unrealistic' contracts?...but that's very hard to implement. No contracts that take a player past a certain age?

The AFL was happy to step to stop bent deals after our "veale Deal", so that each trade has to represnt market value...there is no reason they couldn't have done the same in the Buddy FA move, but they didn't.


BTW, our compo was Hartung wasn't it? Or was it part of the BB trade? Ultimately we could have easily lived without it...whereas repeated first round picks thrown in as compo are an ongoing blight on a increasingly compromised draft.

But, no, you're right...it didn't help us pick wise that the Swans contract didn't help them...but we got salary relief...how are these things balanced?

I don't see a wholly 'just' and satisfactory solution, arart from the American way ...trade or extend the year before free agency.
 

cryptor

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Fair point,

Perhaps the AFL an upper contract limit needs to be stipulated, to ban 'unrealistic' contracts?...but that's very hard to implement. No contracts that take a player past a certain age?

The AFL was happy to step to stop bent deals after our "veale Deal", so that each trade has to represnt market value...there is no reason they couldn't have done the same in the Buddy FA move, but they didn't.


BTW, our compo was Hartung wasn't it? Or was it part of the BB trade? Ultimately we could have easily lived without it...whereas repeated first round picks thrown in as compo are an ongoing blight on a increasingly compromised draft.

But, no, you're right...it didn't help us pick wise that the Swans contract didn't help them...but we got salary relief...how are these things balanced?

I don't see a wholly 'just' and satisfactory solution, arart from the American way ...trade or extend the year before free agency.
Ideally it should be no compensation for any free agent. And there should be no minimum tenure to reach free agency. Just a matter of once they're out of contract it's on. There would be so many players available to be signed as free agents every off season that there would be very little room for ridiculous deals. You offer 900k a year to a back flanker then you risk losing a star mid or forward, or maybe a couple of really solid best 22 players. If you lose your best player in free agency, you can probably pick up a replacement or two pretty easily with the free cap space.

The salary cap (if even for all clubs) ensures that every club has the same amount of money to work with. If a club wants to drop mega deals on a handful of mega stars and then fill out the rest of their list with honest triers then power to them. If another club wants to attempt to put together a relatively evenly spread list of average to good players who mesh well together but no single player is outstanding then they can do that.

As long as the AFL ensures contracts are honoured and they don't bail out clubs who make poor high cost, high risk decisions then an equilibrium would eventually be reached where there is an acceptable risk appetite from clubs.

Currently clubs can afford to be brazen. Over pay to bring talent in through free agency and if it means someone else gets squeezed out the following year then as long as they can play the system right they can get a pretty decent draft pick back, effectively subsidising the original overpaying.

If there's no compo and a bunch of their players are also free agents why would you over pay for a player when it could result in you haemorrhaging another couple players you'd prefer to keep for nothing?

And ultimately it rewards clubs that treat players well. When everyone has the same amount of salary cap and players can mostly just move freely then it comes down to other factors. Like who treats their players best, who has coaches and game plans they'd enjoy playing with and believe in?
 

Gralin

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How many years does free agency kick in after?
Kill all compo.
Clubs know when players are coming out, if they can't resign them they have a window to trade.
Value will be less than current for players coming out of contraxt but clubs that want the guy now before the bidding war will be willing to pay something.

I see from next year NGA doesn't count if a kid is a top 20 pick. Seriously get rid of the whole ******* system and fund grass roots properly, set up a national academy or state academies and move the fu** on.
 

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Steven Tyler

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I read somewhere a suggestion that instead of draft pick compo, the team losing a free agent gets draft points, making it easier to get their Academy player whenever they are next available
This doesn’t affect the draft order as clubs will use these additional points together with low as possible draft picks to get their kid
 

Dragz

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Seriously get rid of the whole ******* system and fund grass roots properly, set up a national academy or state academies and move the fu** on.
Agree. Set up AFL academies in each state.
Individuals are then coached by AFL staff, with coaches and support staff from the clubs rotating thru to assist.

The individuals could then go and spend a few weeks at both a local club AND at Interstate clubs.(Staying at the local academy most of the time - thus interacting with and meeting more of their peers)

At the Sydney academy? Here’s two weeks at the swans, then a month or so later, here’s a week at Hawthorn. A month later? Here’s a week at the Eagles.

Gets them out there, exposed to the big time and what it’s like in completely different parts of the country. They’ll realise they might have to relocate, but having spent time at the other academies and clubs, they’ll hopefully have at least a small network of individuals who they’ll know.

The academies could also have regular matches against each other.


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tommyk72

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Agree. Set up AFL academies in each state.
Individuals are then coached by AFL staff, with coaches and support staff from the clubs rotating thru to assist.

The individuals could then go and spend a few weeks at both a local club AND at Interstate clubs.(Staying at the local academy most of the time - thus interacting with and meeting more of their peers)

At the Sydney academy? Here’s two weeks at the swans, then a month or so later, here’s a week at Hawthorn. A month later? Here’s a week at the Eagles.

Gets them out there, exposed to the big time and what it’s like in completely different parts of the country. They’ll realise they might have to relocate, but having spent time at the other academies and clubs, they’ll hopefully have at least a small network of individuals who they’ll know.

The academies could also have regular matches against each other.


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Woah woah woah. No one invited you to the party captain logical. Least of all the AFL.
 

Books

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How can they brazenly approach a contracted Dunkley, sell him the world to get him to want to leave and then not be competent enough to get the deal over the line? Bunch of amateurs pretending to be big boys.
There really should be sanctions against clubs who chase contracted players, then refuse to offer anything remotely close to market value.

This is Essendon so of course the AFL will condone it, but a heavy fine would be appropriate. Or maybe the loss of a draft pick.
 

MrPremiership

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There really should be sanctions against clubs who chase contracted players, then refuse to offer anything remotely close to market value.

This is Essendon so of course the AFL will condone it, but a heavy fine would be appropriate. Or maybe the loss of a draft pick.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your post, Pick 7 was fair value for Dunkley. He was never worth 2 first rounders.

Think the comment should be, don't approach contracted players if you're not willing to pay the price required to get them, and it's always going to be overs.
 

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