Opinion The Evolution of Your Best 23 for 2022

[EskimoPAFC]

Finlayson is a strange one for me. Is he competing with Marshall & Georgiades for that 2nd/3rd forward spot, competing with Hayes for that second ruck spot when we need it, or competing with Dixon for the lead tall role?

I'd actually like to get a look at our forward line with talls of Finlayson, Todd and MG. Dix is probably too good to keep out of the side, but I'd at least like to see if we could develop some sort of a functional forward line without him.

 

[PatientMental]

I will take your suggestions and change my Christmas rankings if the club infers they've improved their chances for best 23

 

[EskimoPAFC]

FB Burton Jonas McKenzie
HB Bergman Aliir Bonner
C Duursma Wines (C) Amon
HF Butters Marshall Rozee
FF MG Finlayson OF
R Boak Hayes Drew
INT Sinn Pep Dixon Houston

EMERGENCY Gray, Lycett, Mead, Skinner, Jones

 

[David Puddy]

Do people really think that Lycett won't be the number one ruck at least to start next season?

I get it that we're excited about Hayes, but that seems a bit of a stretch for me.

 

[Wargreymon90]

FB: DBJ Jonas McKenzie
HB: Burton Aliir Houston
C: Amon Wines Duursma
HF: Gray Georgiadis Rozee
FF: Fantasia Dixon Finlayson

Ruck: Lycett Boak Butters

Int: SPP Sinn Bergman Jones

 

[Power Raid]

Late last year, dixon was no longer able to reach up with two hands in the air. I wonder if his shoulders are stuffed and thus Finalyson coming in to replace him and Dixon moving in second ruck.

Thoughts?

 

[jonasshirtfront]

FB	Jonas	Skinner	Burton
HB	Houston	Aliir	Byrne-Jones
C	Bergman	Wines	Duursma
HF	Gray	Finlayson	Rozee
FF	Georgiades	Dixon	Fantasia
RR	Hayes	Drew	Butters
Int	Amon	Boak	Lycett	Jones
Emerg	Powell-Pepper	Motlop	Marshall	Sinn

 

[Janus]

B: Jonas ------------------------ McKenzie
------------------Jones---------------------

I want Jones playing in front of our two best defenders - he has the speed to get across and help either one. I'd also have him pushing up to fill in the hole that any of our half-backs leave when they push up the ground. He can play tall and small as well.

HB: Byrne-Jones ----- Aliir ----- Burton

Need players who are willing to take the game on and also defend well. Also need speed.

C: -------------- Bergman ---------------
-Duursma---------------------------Amon-

Because our wings push forward pretty hard into the forward line, the center midfielder generally has to be more defensive. Ebert played this role pretty well when he was in the midfield. Bergman has the size and the athleticism to do the same.

HF: Rozee ------- Marshall ------ Butters

Pretty self explanatory. I want Marshall dropping into the hole that Bergman playing more defensively leaves.

F: -----Fantasia ---Dixon -------- Georgiades

Fantasia playing off of Dixon's shoulder if we're going slow, with Georgiades one out on the opposite side if we manage to pull our finger out and go fast.

FOL: Lycett - Wines - Boak

No explanation needed.

INT: Gray (gen fwd/mid) --- Finlayson (kpp/ruck) --- Houston (gen def/mid) --- Drew (mid)

Gray is still good enough to go into the midfield and up forward in spurts and create a different look than Georgiades or Fantasia does. Finlayson should be rotating with Marshall for most of the game and then with Lycett when he needs a rest. Houston gets the nod over Bonner because he can go into the midfield as well (eventually Sinn will take over this spot), while Drew gives Boak and Wines a chop out.

MED: Powell-Pepper

What's different from the prelim final? Not much - Jones into defence, Georgiades into the forward line, the 'ruck' on the bench (Finlayson instead of Ladhams). No matter how much we s**t the bed, it WAS a prelim final FFS. People want to throw everything away because we met a team that literally had nothing to lose and had the freedom to play the way they wanted because of it.

 

[PatientMental]

Do people really think that Lycett won't be the number one ruck at least to start next season?

I get it that we're excited about Hayes, but that seems a bit of a stretch for me.

It's almost like the suggestion that marshall is borderline 23 when he hasn't played a game of sanfl since he finished the season in the seniors in 2019 and played the sanfl finals.

Even when marshall forgot to football this year he was still considered first 22.

 

[Power Raid]

FB	Jonas	Skinner	Burton
HB	Houston	Aliir	Byrne-Jones
C	Bergman	Wines	Duursma
HF	Gray	Finlayson	Rozee
FF	Georgiades	Dixon	Fantasia
RR	Hayes	Drew	Butters
Int	Amon	Boak	Lycett	Jones
Emerg	Powell-Pepper	Motlop	Marshall	Sinn

how nice it would be to have a full back taller than my knees. Perhaps Skinner offers that.

we just need a full forward who can raise both arms above his head. Hopefully Dixon gets his body right or Marshall, Finlayson or Georgie can step up.

 

[Andre]

Do people really think that Lycett won't be the number one ruck at least to start next season?

I get it that we're excited about Hayes, but that seems a bit of a stretch for me.

Do we think Lycett will be? Definitely, since he and Ken 'made up', he's been a mainstay. He gets spanked regularly by top shelf rucks and has had numerous What Happen Power? worthy performances against average and downright spud rucks the last couple of years. He in no way deserves a walk up start. Hayes would be worse in the short term, but there's at least a chance he could become a top ruck. Lycett is never going to get beyond average and as noted often not even that. We're on track for a classic Ken 7 - 10 finish though, so 'safe choices' like Lycett, rather than risk losing some games for the long term benefit of the club (but not Ken's contract), are the likely go to, for more frustration in 2022.

 

[TeeKray]

Periodic reminder that Lycett was lead ruck for a premiership team 3 years ago.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

Do we think Lycett will be? Definitely, since he and Ken 'made up', he's been a mainstay. He gets spanked regularly by top shelf rucks and has had numerous What Happen Power? worthy performances against average and downright spud rucks the last couple of years. He in no way deserves a walk up start. Hayes would be worse in the short term, but there's at least a chance he could become a top ruck. Lycett is never going to get beyond average and as noted often not even that. We're on track for a classic Ken 7 - 10 finish though, so 'safe choices' like Lycett, rather than risk losing some games for the long term benefit of the club (but not Ken's contract), are the likely go to, for more frustration in 2022.

There's very few good rucks around. It's not easy to find a ruckman better than Lycett and I'd be shocked if Hayes is anywhere near his level yet.

Out of interest where would you ruck Lycett amongst the competions rucks? And where do you expect Hayes to fall on that ranking?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Periodic reminder that Lycett was lead ruck for a premiership team 3 years ago.

And he could've been a two time premiership player if he hadn't totally and utterly s**t the bed against Nankervis last year too.

 

[Powerage]

Late last year, dixon was no longer able to reach up with two hands in the air. I wonder if his shoulders are stuffed and thus Finalyson coming in to replace him and Dixon moving in second ruck.

Thoughts?

I don't know about Dixon's shoulders. I'm not aware of any surgery he had post season on them to even clean them out. Google can't find anything either.

Finlayson is not really a contested beast type of player, although he has the frame for it. He gets a lot of his goals from lead up marks and snaps at goal. I'd be surprised if Finlayson becomes a contested focal point in the way Charlie has been. I am hoping we are going to see a change in forward line strategy in the future as Charlie gets phased out to a more dynamic forward line with leading forwards, forwards getting free and ideally contested marking situations being the option of last resort.

The idea of Charlie moving into second ruck is interesting but I think his ruck duties will remain in the forward line, or he may even ruck less now that Finlayson and Marshall can shoulder some of that responsibility.

I'd like to see all of our veteran players better managed than they are. Dixon and Boak come immediately to mind and it would be interesting to see how our forward line operates without Charlie in it.

 

[Power Raid]

I don't know about Dixon's shoulders. I'm not aware of any surgery he had post season on them to even clean them out. Google can't find anything either.

Finlayson is not really a contested beast type of player, although he has the frame for it. He gets a lot of his goals from lead up marks and snaps at goal. I'd be surprised if Finlayson becomes a contested focal point in the way Charlie has been. I am hoping we are going to see a change in forward line strategy in the future as Charlie gets phased out to a more dynamic forward line with leading forwards, forwards getting free and ideally contested marking situations being the option of last resort.

The idea of Charlie moving into second ruck is interesting but I think his ruck duties will remain in the forward line, or he may even ruck less now that Finlayson and Marshall can shoulder some of that responsibility.

I'd like to see all of our veteran players better managed than they are. Dixon and Boak come immediately to mind and it would be interesting to see how our forward line operates without Charlie in it.

I love gray but he'll need to be managed for similar reasons to boak and dixon

 

[Powerage]

It's almost like the suggestion that marshall is borderline 23 when he hasn't played a game of sanfl since he finished the season in the seniors in 2019 and played the sanfl finals.

Even when marshall forgot to football this year he was still considered first 22.

Marshall has no doubt been marginal until 2021. The role that he has played alone until last season as a decoy for Dixon is structurally important and that has no doubt been a factor in him keeping his place over the journey. Unusually, Ken has shown patience in an up and coming tall forward as well which has been nice to see.

In 2021 Marshall had an improved season IMO. A much better kick at goal and certain other areas of his game improved. There is no doubt that he became the third string tall due to the emergence of Georgiades in his first full season who must now be considered our second key tall. There are those who would argue, with some justification, that Marshall did more work up the ground in a Lynch-type link up role. Still, there were performances this year that had the question being raised, would we better off with a two, or two plus resting ruck forward line in Dixon, Georgiades and Ladhams. Injuries to small forwards arguably played a substantial factor in Marshall retaining his spot in all bar one game this year.

So to say he has been considered first 22 for the whole journey is IMO misleading. Its not his consistency or performances that have kept him first 22. Its a combination of his role being structurally important, playing at a time when half the forward line was injured, and being perservered with the way young key forwards should be, but demonstrably in other cases, have not been under the Hinkley regime.

Marshall really has to step up this year with the acquisition of Finlayson. The challenge for Marshall, I believe, will be whether he can establish his spot in the team as that tall link up player in a Lynch-type role.He will need to get more possessions and show more urgency in demanding and moving the ball on to do this successfully. Alternatively he will have to prove himself a better KPF option than Finlayson who has a stronger frame, and, historically, a substantially better goals per game record than Marshall (1.4 to 1) as well as slightly better or similar stats in most other aspects of forward line craft. If he can't do either of these, he will spend time in the AFL this year.

 

[MALTSY]

FB DBJ Skinner Jonas
HB Burton Allir Jones
C Duursma Wines Amon
HF Rozzee Georgiades Marshall
FF Gray Dixon Fantasia
1R Lycett Butters Drew
INT Boak Butters

 

[Kingfish73]

I would be starting Georgiades and Finlayson way ahead of Marshall. He needs to compete for a spot and demonstrate he has the pure tenacity and fight to play early rounds. DBJ 2021 was average at best and him being a walk up starter is a no for me. Start on bench. I would have him under pump to keep his spot. Houston was soft last part of year but leg is a weapon so keeps him best 22. I think Bonner will start to deliver but prefer on wing. Persist with Hayes early on season for rewards 2nd part of year. Butters and Rozee groomed as starting mids.

FB: Burton Jonas McKenzie
HB: Jones Aliir Houston
C: Bonner Wines Duursma
HF: Fanta Georgiadis Rozee
FF: Gray Dixon Finlayson

Ruck: Lycett Boak Butters

Int: DBJ SPP Hayes Amon
Sub Sinn

 

[SureBuddy]

I think Skinner will surprise a lot and be our starting full back come round 1.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Do people really think that Lycett won't be the number one ruck at least to start next season?

I get it that we're excited about Hayes, but that seems a bit of a stretch for me.

Nope, I'm not trying to predict our round 1 team, more just a side I'd like to see together at some point.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I think our prelim final shows Drew needs to start on the ground.

If we aren't able to actually fix our s**t starts we should at the very least have the side on the ground that will cause the least amount of bleeding til we wake up.

 

[David Puddy]

There's very few good rucks around. It's not easy to find a ruckman better than Lycett and I'd be shocked if Hayes is anywhere near his level yet.

Out of interest where would you ruck Lycett amongst the competions rucks? And where do you expect Hayes to fall on that ranking?

I'd have Lycett in the second tier of ruckmen. He's nowhere near the Grundy, Gawn, NicNat tier, but sits somewhere within the ROB, Nankervis, McInerney level.

Hard to tell with Hayes having only seen him at SANFL level - would love to see him get 10-15 games this year to get him up and running.

 

[TeeKray]

From now on posting a team with Skinner at full back instead of the Dulmial Gun is a ban worthy offence.

 

[Joshykins]

Going on unsubstantiated intuition, but I predict DBJ and Clurey won't be in our first 22 by mid season. Kenzie, Jonas and Bonner also potentially slipping. We have a great defensive system and can have all those players replaced by faster, stronger, (taller), more creative kids.