Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

- Mullighan Inquiry SA
- Murder of Dr. George Duncan
- The Disappearance of Daniel Shepherd
- The Disappearance of James Crocker
- SBS - OUT OF SIGHT Adelaide's gay-hate murders
- Colin Manock as Chief Forensic Pathologist SA

 

[Bits]

It’s been a huge couple of days Charlie. A couple of long standing discrepancies (Mr B, Alan’s clothes) have been sorted out. We’re all on the same side in the end.

 

[Bits]

New case file podcast on the family out today

I haven’t listened yet. This site is one of the most up to date and comprehensive sources available but we aren’t a source for this podcast. Will be interesting listening to this.

 

[Dell43]

I popped over to see Phil today . He is the same as I remember him just older . I showed him how to get on this site and now has the app . I hope to see him post here and maybe help you all with same of the stuff you want to know about darko .


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Excellent thanks for organising that Charlie. While on the subject of Darko I cannot find any records of Kastelan's living in Queenstown in 1979 only Alberton. Most probably just not listed on the records I have reviewed.

 

[JezMez]

I popped over to see Phil today . He is the same as I remember him just older . I showed him how to get on this site and now has the app . I hope to see him post here and maybe help you all with same of the stuff you want to know about darko .


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Are you talking about Bowsey?

 

[Kurve]

Erm .... according to Casefile there were bite marks on Muir's vertebrae and where his legs were separated from the torso. Has anybody heard this before?

Also of interest and which I hadn't thought about, is that Muir must have had a criminal record or in the least been arrested at some stage, he was identified by his fingerprints.

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[SquiffyRae]

I haven’t listened yet. This site is one of the most up to date and comprehensive sources available but we aren’t a source for this podcast. Will be interesting listening to this.

It also doesn't list the latest book as a source either. And despite Casefile seemingly working very closely with victims' families in previous episodes, Charlie hasn't mentioned being approached at all despite him being the most public member of any of the families involved in this case.

Erm .... according to Casefile there were bite marks on Muir's vertebrae and where his legs were separated from the torso. Has anybody heard this before?

Muir must have had a criminal record, he was identified by his fingerprints.

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Wasn't there a big debate over the degree of precision that was used to cut Muir's body up? As in whether or not he was cut up cleanly or roughly which would leave marks? Could it just be some weird misinterpretation of that? I don't remember any mention at all of bite marks. I'd love to know exactly which of their listed sources mentions that

 

[Macka_321]

Heard years ago that a former girls home in Norwood that had a wine cellar that was apparently linked to the family murders again only heard this from someone else. Anyone else heard this?

 

[Kurve]

Wasn't there a big debate over the degree of precision that was used to cut Muir's body up? As in whether or not he was cut up cleanly or roughly which would leave marks? Could it just be some weird misinterpretation of that? I don't remember any mention at all of bite marks. I'd love to know exactly which of their listed sources mentions that

Casefile usually doesn't leap like that, I would tend to think there's 'bite marks' somewhere but I'd be real interested to see their source for it as well. Investigators according to the pod, also speculated Muir's missing bits were eaten and which might be a theory that sprang from bite marks evidence.

That he could have been cannabalised doesn't surprise me though.

 

[Bits]

Wild guess here with no basis for it other than speculation. Do Case File seed their work with things like this so they can tell if it is being used by someone else without proper acknowledgement?

 

[Kurve]

Here's Casefile's resources.

RESOURCES


ONLINE ARTICLES
Family murder truth may never be known – Adelaide Now

Doctor with alleged links to The Family identified as Stephen George Woodards – Adelaide Now

Revealed: the double life of a magistrate who sought young men – Adelaide Now

Von Einem supplied sex drug in jail – The Advertiser


WEBSITES
Family Murders Home

Adelaide Population

Adelaide – Wikipedia

Mandrax

Peter Millhouse


NEWSPAPER ARCHIVES
Hacked bodies found in bags – The Advertiser

Killing may be a warning on drugs – The Advertiser

Wounds may link deaths – The Advertiser

Man, 45, in court over body in bag – The Advertiser

Body ‘may have been cleaned,’ Pathologist tells hearing – The Advertiser

Injuries inflicted while man alive: pathologist – The Advertiser

Skill used to cut body, court told – The Advertiser

Nighmare after murder: mother – The Advertiser

Many theories, few clues in string of Adelaide Murders – The Canberra Times

Von Einem is Kelvin killer – jury decides after 7.5 hours – The News

Sex death inquests re-opened – The News

Langley inquest terms broadened – The News

Sex slayings ‘similar’ – The News

Kelvin link in teen killings – The News

Von Einem Breaks Silence – The Advertiser

Von Einem’s new bid for freedom – The Advertiser

The legal team that works for nothing – new appeal for von Einem – The Advertiser

‘Lies’ claim in von Einem Appeal – The Advertiser

My friend von Einem – The Sunday Mail

DNA tests for Family murder suspects – The Sunday Mail

Police seek Von Einem Associate – The Sunday Mail

Lost diary gives South Australia police new lead into Alan Barnes murder by The Family – The Advertiser

Von Einem boys left my house alive – The Advertiser

Witness feared threats to his life – The Sydney Morning Herald

Death of boy, 15, baffles police – The Age

The Beaumonts, Kirste and Joanne: the mystery may be over – The Sydney Morning Herald

Family killing murder charge dropped – The Sydney Morning Herald

Man in court over 1979 murder – The Sydney Morning Herald

Court told rape victim thought he would die – The Age

Murderer quizzed on death of youth – The Sydney Morning Herald

Teenager’s death: Man sent for trial – The Sydney Morning Herald

Tales from the dark side – The Age

Family murders shadowy clique preyed on young – The Sunday Mail

Notorious Killer von Einem never to be released – Adelaide APP

Overseas links to family witnesses tracked down – The Sunday Mail

No rape charge for von Einem – The Sunday Mail

Alan’s killer will be caught – The Sunday Mail

Inadequate as surgeon: Doctor’s plea – The Sydney Morning Herald

Macabre Adelaide – The Sydney Morning Herald


BOOKS
Young Blood: The Story of the Family Murders – Bob O’Brien


VIDEOS
The Butchered Boys

The Family ‘the most serious, outrageous series of crimes’

Retracing final steps of Richard Kelvin

Hope for Justice


COURT DOCUMENTS
Retrieved from Austlii Database:

The Queen V. Bevan Spencer von Einem – Admissibility of evidence [1991] SASC 2741 (6 March 1991)

R v Von Einem – [2009] SASC 247 (21 August 2009)

 

[SquiffyRae]

Wild guess here with no basis for it other than speculation. Do Case File seed their work with things like this so they can tell if it is being used by someone else without proper acknowledgement?

They're usually pretty on the nose when it comes to accuracy. In other episodes where I was familiar with the case I can't recall another instance where they inserted something true-sounding but false like that. Everything's usually just facts that can be independently verified.

This is the first time I've ever heard a detail in a Casefile episode that's made me prick my ears up and doubt its authenticity. I'd consider this thread to be on top of just about every detail of this case so to have something like that that's actually a pretty big claim (bite marks and investigators suspecting cannibalism) never be mentioned on here until now...I'm not exactly calling bull but if we could track down which of those sources that came from that would be awesome.

While we're at it, question for Charlie when he catches up: has anyone you've talked to in the 40 years you've been living this ever mentioned the possibility Neil Muir was cannibalised or that there were bite marks on his bones?

 

[Kurve]

This is the first time I've ever heard a detail in a Casefile episode that's made me prick my ears up and doubt its authenticity. I'd consider this thread to be on top of just about every detail of this case so to have something like that that's actually a pretty big claim (bite marks and investigators suspecting cannibalism) never be mentioned on here until now...I'm not exactly calling bull but if we could track down which of those sources that came from that would be awesome.

I've mentioned cannabalism before in regards Neil Muir but it was a private conversation. I had nothing but a suspicion/intuition and wondering now if I saw something about bite marks years ago then forgot I saw it. We can try and find their source, or we could ask them.

 

[Bits]

The ebook mentions a butcher several times but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I've seen mention elsewhere of a butcher selling human meat for consumption. (Somewhere in the McIntyre saga maybe?).

But it's a huge leap from that scenario to biting chunks of raw flesh straight off a corpse. I think we'd all remember that if we'd read it before.

 

[JezMez]

They're usually pretty on the nose when it comes to accuracy.

It's almost impossible for them to be more accurate that what is on here. Case Files spread thin over 100s of cases and don't have the same time in the game to really understand what is legit and what is fluff. They have limited time period due to their commercial model.

What's common in cases like this (this happened in the CSK thread) is these part-timers go and dig up all the articles around the time it happened. When big cases break there is a scramble for media outlets to be the one who breaks new developments, and because of this often mistruths are reported. A rule of thumb is, if you go back to early news articles and a journalist says something that never gets repeated - it's because it was found out it was inaccurate and they dropped it like a hot potato and moved on. It's standard in every large breaking news story.

Things like Case Files usually seem accurate because in most cases of theirs that you watch, you're none the wiser because you haven't had a really deep look into the case. I think these guys did a CSK podcast and they were well behind the 8-ball on what was known on BF, WS, and other forums.

 

[Punk Rooster 16]

The ebook mentions a butcher several times but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I've seen mention elsewhere of a butcher selling human meat for consumption. (Somewhere in the McIntyre saga maybe?).

Rachel McIntyre has made those claims

 

[Punk Rooster 16]

Earlier a woman witness told how she saw a youth resembling Stogneff walk into a Tea Tree Plaza coffee shop with a man on the day he disappeared. Glenise Richardson of Fairview Park said she was in the shop called the Coffee Spot with a friend, Julie Cullen, on 27 August 1981, probably about noon. She said they thought the situation looked “very odd”. She described the man as about 26, tanned, dark hair, abhout 181cm (5ft 11in) and wearing a bomber jacket and light coloured shoes of a style that would be worn by a model type. The man was broad framed but not over weight. He was carrying a brown purse with a loop handle. The inquest is proceeding.

Any theories who the person may have been?

 

[JezMez]

Earlier a woman witness told how she saw a youth resembling Stogneff walk into a Tea Tree Plaza coffee shop with a man on the day he disappeared. Glenise Richardson of Fairview Park said she was in the shop called the Coffee Spot with a friend, Julie Cullen, on 27 August 1981, probably about noon. She said they thought the situation looked “very odd”. She described the man as about 26, tanned, dark hair, abhout 181cm (5ft 11in) and wearing a bomber jacket and light coloured shoes of a style that would be worn by a model type. The man was broad framed but not over weight. He was carrying a brown purse with a loop handle. The inquest is proceeding.

Any theories who the person may have been?

Noel Brook. It's in the ebook. The theory is mental but at this stage some variation of the theory is the most likely option.

I'd read before about reports of someone witnessing Stogneff with an unknown person matching BVE. Ebook says the description is incorrect and that person matches Noel Brook (was the possible BVE a separate sighting).

 

[John Barnes]

They're usually pretty on the nose when it comes to accuracy. In other episodes where I was familiar with the case I can't recall another instance where they inserted something true-sounding but false like that. Everything's usually just facts that can be independently verified.

This is the first time I've ever heard a detail in a Casefile episode that's made me prick my ears up and doubt its authenticity. I'd consider this thread to be on top of just about every detail of this case so to have something like that that's actually a pretty big claim (bite marks and investigators suspecting cannibalism) never be mentioned on here until now...I'm not exactly calling bull but if we could track down which of those sources that came from that would be awesome.

While we're at it, question for Charlie when he catches up: has anyone you've talked to in the 40 years you've been living this ever mentioned the possibility Neil Muir was cannibalised or that there were bite marks on his bones?

I remember something about bit marks but I was not told anything about cannibalism . I will ask the cops from Majer crime for you to verify it . I believe it was in the paper about the bit marks


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[John Barnes]

Are you talking about Bowsey?

The one talked about in the ebook who ran away from Darko


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[JezMez]

The one talked about in the ebook who ran away from Darko

Interesting that R+M (Roles and McInerney) looked him up and spoke to him. You should ask him if he spoke to Alan or Preacher about that incident.

 

[John Barnes]

Interesting that R+M (Roles and McInerney) looked him up and spoke to him. You should ask him if he spoke to Alan or Preacher about that incident.

He did but both Alan and preacher dismissed what he was saying . As soon as he starts posting you can ask him about it . With the clothes Alan was found in he did not have dress clothes and that is why we his family did not know who’s they were . Please remember as I have said I go by 2 things , what I have seen and heard I don’t read about this (books exta ) .


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[JezMez]

He did but both Alan and preacher dismissed what he was saying . As soon as he starts posting you can ask him about it . With the clothes Alan was found in he did not have dress clothes and that is why we his family did not know who’s they were . Please remember as I have said I go by 2 things , what I have seen and heard I don’t read about this (books exta ) .


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Did he drift away from Alan and Preacher after that?

 

[John Barnes]

Did he drift away from Alan and Preacher after that?

He would stay over a lot but preacher said he stopped popping over as much . Phil’s girlfriend was best mates with Alan’s ex so I would say so but they would go to the pjs hotel a lot . Phil said he kept up the relationship until then end


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[John Barnes]

Did he drift away from Alan and Preacher after that?

Phil is riddled with guilt and has a hard time with this even tho he had nothing to do with it . He became a very heavy drinker and had a very trouble life after this . He has put his life back together and I hope he is moving forward and not letting this distort him from the path he is now on . He has agreed to came on here and has started to read same of the posts . I ask that you all take it easy on him please


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[Kurve]

The theory is mental but at this stage some variation of the theory is the most likely option.

What theory's mental? If there's bite marks anywhere along the edges of skin breaks or in raw flesh the cops would probably have to note the missing parts might have been eaten. Tip, if they raid anybody's house to check the fridge/freezer.

Unfortunately, Rachel will probably rob and distort the cops cannibal theory when she sees it, to support her story that eating abducted people and selling whatever's left to the local butcher was routine. Urgh.