Unsolved The Family Murders

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JezMez

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What theory's mental? If there's bite marks anywhere along the edges of skin breaks or in raw flesh the cops would probably have to note the missing parts might have been eaten. Tip, if they raid anybody's house to check the fridge/freezer.

Unfortunately, Rachel will probably rob and distort the cops cannibal theory when she sees it, to support her story that eating abducted people and selling whatever's left to the local butcher was routine. Urgh.
1. I'm talking about R&M's Stogneff theory.
2. When I say mental - I mean out there, but probably close to the truth.

Who is Rachel? Someone from Case Files?

I listened to the first 10 minutes of the podcast. This is where this thread as in 2013-ish. A lot of that stuff was all over the internet back then and has since been debunked (or been all but ruled out) in this very thread.
 

Kurve

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1. I'm talking about R&M's Stogneff theory.
2. When I say mental - I mean out there, but probably close to the truth.
Okay, got it.

Who is Rachel? Someone from Case Files?
Rachel Vaughan from clan McIntyre.

I listened to the first 10 minutes of the podcast. This is where this thread as in 2013-ish. A lot of that stuff was all over the internet back then and has since been debunked (or been all but ruled out) in this very thread.
I'll have a look see if I can find out how long their researcher/writer Jessica Forsayeth has been with Casefile, it's changed a couple of times.

Edit: They're mixing it up now, she researches and writes but doesn't always contribute writing as she did on this pod.
 
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JezMez

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Edit: They're mixing it up now, she researches and writes but doesn't always contribute writing as she did on this pod.
Some of the inaccuracies are from articles from around the time it happened (which always have inaccuracies), and some come from Chinese whispers either from these articles, or from new articles with flawed interpretations.
 

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John Barnes

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I want to give you all a little in-site into how Alan being murder changed everyone who knew him lives . The closest people to him !!!! Preacher: preacher needed a place to live and was on the streets . Mom was one to take in trouble kids and even tho there was 7 of us kids ( 6 living there) mom took in other kids . Preacher was Alan’s friend and needed a place to stay . Alan and preacher meet at the cricket and they had a fight over one taking the others soft drink . The next time they meet the same thing happened and afterwards shook hands and became friends . This was 3 years before Alan died and 6 mth later preacher moved in . Alan said to mom that it was only going to be for a week or 2 , moms reply was look at Roger he was ment to stay a week and 2 years later married Mandy . Alan’s reply to that was he won’t be marring Cherie. Preacher can not talk about it without loosing it to this day . I have already told you all about Phil’s feelings about it all and we who knew Alan best all feel this way . Myself I was a loose cannon for a long time and everyone thought I would have killed and been locked up by now . The things we feel over what happened we could not express to people as they have no understanding so all of us kept it inside us and it still to this day comes out as anger .


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Kurve

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Casefile quotes Charlie following on from Detective Superintendent Grant Moyle's appeal to those with knowledge of the murders. Beginning at around 96.10.

It was a sentiment echoed by Alan Barnes's brother Charlie, who said of those responsible 'I would like them to shed the guilt and remorse they must be carrying around and come forward and bring this to a conclusion. I know the police are like bulldogs and will not let go of this. They may well tap you on the shoulder one day.'
 

Sewer de Lance

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Does anyone know whether the police questioned BVE in regards to PS disappearance?

The fact he was abducted on a school day would of allowed the Police to establish if BVE was present at his work that day.

Surely the Police would have sought alibis from all the high profile names linked to this case, or had the horse already bolted by this stage?
 

SquiffyRae

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Does anyone know whether the police questioned BVE in regards to PS disappearance?

The fact he was abducted on a school day would of allowed the Police to establish if BVE was present at his work that day.

Surely the Police would have sought alibis from all the high profile names linked to this case, or had the horse already bolted by this stage?
I wonder how that would fit in with Noel Brook supposedly being the abductor if the witness statement was correct and it was PS she saw in the coffee shop. Was Brook building trust with PS so he could take him outside where BVE was waiting? In which case were BVE, Brook and possibly others driving looking for victims and saw Peter walking to Tea Tree Plaza? Or was BVE possibly not even aware of it and Brook instead "went rogue" and took Peter back to his house of his own accord, assuming BVE would be pleased and give him some of his drugs as a reward? In which case BVE could have a solid alibi and still be responsible.

The gone rogue angle raises an interesting possibility to explain why PS was killed, too. Brook lived close to PS so let's just assume he's out and sees PS wagging school going to the shops. He decides he's gonna get in BVE's good books and lure him back to his house and call BVE saying he's got someone. BVE's usual party angle isn't gonna work, especially without BVE being there but if Brook could gain PS's trust he might stand a chance (which could explain why he went to a cafe). So what happens happens and Brook comes back with PS, possibly gives him some pills he had on hand to knock him out and calls BVE. BVE comes over after work and some variation of the following takes place:

BVE: where'd you find him?
NB: at Tea Tree Plaza. I managed to convince him to come back to my place
BVE: you do realise he's in a school uniform right?
NB: ...yes?
BVE: so he knows what you look like, he knows where you live and potentially hundreds of people saw you walking around the shops with this kid in uniform. What do you think is gonna happen when he goes home tomorrow after a night being missing and tells his parents he wagged school and some guy took him from Tea Tree Plaza? You don't think somebody who saw the kid in school uniform in the middle of the day might be able to connect the dots?
NB: oh
BVE: well now we've gotta kill him don't we
 

JezMez

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Does anyone know whether the police questioned BVE in regards to PS disappearance?

The fact he was abducted on a school day would of allowed the Police to establish if BVE was present at his work that day.

Surely the Police would have sought alibis from all the high profile names linked to this case, or had the horse already bolted by this stage?
So many questions we don't have the answer to but I've got a strong inkling many things were missed.

Once they learned who BVE's network was, did they go back and interview Brook?
Millhouse was acquitted. A few years later BVE was in the gun for 5 murders. Did they go test the grey head hairs to see if they matched Bevans?
And like you say - 2-3 years later they finally had a suspect for PS, did they go and check BVE's work attendance records.

The public may never know this stuff.
 

John Barnes

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Casefile quotes Charlie following on from Detective Superintendent Grant Moyle's appeal to those with knowledge of the murders. Beginning at around 96.10.

It was a sentiment echoed by Alan Barnes's brother Charlie, who said of those responsible 'I would like them to shed the guilt and remorse they must be carrying around and come forward and bring this to a conclusion. I know the police are like bulldogs and will not let go of this. They may well tap you on the shoulder one day.'
Yes I remember that
Add note : we were asked to do the interview by the police . I have not been asked to work with anyone from case files at all .


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SquiffyRae

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A Crimestoppers media release from 2019 has this at the bottom of the page:

"Information received during the investigation indicated that Peter may have been seen with a male adult at Tea Tree Plaza on the day of his disappearance. That male has never been identified."

I'd love to know what definition of "never been identified" they're using. Do they mean the legal sense that they've never been able to prove who it was or are they using it in the literal sense that they have no clue who it is?

It seems almost impossible to me that once they started uncovering BVE's social circle not one person investigating noticed the similarities in the witness statement to Brook yet 40 years later 2 authors just happened to notice. Surely someone at the time had to notice that and interview Brook, even if he denied it was him
 

JezMez

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It seems almost impossible to me that once they started uncovering BVE's social circle not one person investigating noticed the similarities in the witness statement to Brook yet 40 years later 2 authors just happened to notice. Surely someone at the time had to notice that and interview Brook, even if he denied it was him
Don't under estimate the incompetence of Govt Departments.
 

Raisedeyebrow

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The ebook mentions a butcher several times but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I've seen mention elsewhere of a butcher selling human meat for consumption. (Somewhere in the McIntyre saga maybe?).

But it's a huge leap from that scenario to biting chunks of raw flesh straight off a corpse. I think we'd all remember that if we'd read it before.
Are we just assuming human bite marks? Possibly it may be that Neil’s body parts and other missing organs were fed to an animal. Dog perhaps?
 

Bits

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Are we just assuming human bite marks? Possibly it may be that Neil’s body parts and other missing organs were fed to an animal. Dog perhaps?
Fair point, but pathologists would know the difference (hopefully) and it should have been specified in whatever source they used.

Given that a lot of us are all over the public details of these crimes, surely if this info was available we would have heard of it. I’d love to know the source.
 

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John Barnes

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Fair point, but pathologists would know the difference (hopefully) and it should have been specified in whatever source they used.

Given that a lot of us are all over the public details of these crimes, surely if this info was available we would have heard of it. I’d love to know the source.
I am going to ask major crime about this . I do think there was something in a paper years ago but it may have been one of Peter harons stories and I think you all know what same of his stories were like .


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John Barnes

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Do you think you could get the 60 minutes video?
No the one the cops used and showed . It was a ht square tail lights . That is why I said ht before . They only said a white Holden kingswood when talking about it in the voice over but used a ht not a hq . This was back before any of the murders were connected. Very early 80s . I think it was before RK was found but just after he went missing. They knew by then that there was a connection between them all.


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Kurve

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On the bitemarks, Jessica Forsayeth isn't hard to find but Casefile is on facebook, twitter and instagram.
 

Bits

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That 60 minutes episode is very elusive. Some of us have been trying to find it for years. If anyone has it, please post a link - doesn’t matter how bad the quality is.
 

Kurve

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Does anyone know whether the police questioned BVE in regards to PS disappearance?

The fact he was abducted on a school day would of allowed the Police to establish if BVE was present at his work that day.

Surely the Police would have sought alibis from all the high profile names linked to this case, or had the horse already bolted by this stage?
Neil Muir was also taken on a school or work day, a Monday and he was found on the Tuesday. Given the similarities in the dismemberments of Stogneff and Muir, I'd like to know a bit more about Didi and confirmation of where he was living when Neil Muir was murdered. I'm thinking it might have been the Alberton address.

I haven't heard much about what Didi did for work but my understanding is that most of the TGs worked in the entertainment industry so their busy days and nights would be towards the end of the week and over the weekend. Their free days in the late 70s would more likely be Sunday through to Thursday.
 

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