Unsolved The Family Murders

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Sewer de Lance

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In regards to possible vehicles used in the abductions, couldn‘t the police just simply run checks through department of roads & transport to cross check what vehicle was registered to suspect at the time?

On another of couple of topics in relation to the crimes;

1) On where the bodies were dumped, has there been any discussion whether these were thought to be random locations, or did the perpetrators have some sort of close affinity to each place?

2) Have the police ever been able to definitively establish where the actual act of killing took place?

- We know the evidence is clear that RK was held captive at BVE residence for a period of time but unlikely murdered there given BVEs mum also living there.

- We know for a fact that individuals were routinely taken to Prince St, Alberton to be raped & abused, but could any of the victims at any point of time be physically linked to that address?

- My instinct tells me that the killers would have chosen a more secluded location to perform the horrific dismembering & rough surgical procedure (ML & Muir in particular)
 

Sewer de Lance

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Neil Muir was also taken on a school or work day, a Monday and he was found on the Tuesday. Given the similarities in the dismemberments of Stogneff and Muir, I'd like to know a bit more about Didi and confirmation of where he was living when Neil Muir was murdered. I'm thinking it might have been the Alberton address.

I haven't heard much about what Didi did for work but my understanding is that most of the TGs worked in the entertainment industry so their busy days and nights would be towards the end of the week and over the weekend. Their free days in the late 70s would more likely be Sunday through to Thursday.
I believe Peter Stogneff was abducted on a Thursday. Do you know if NM disappeared after business hours or before?

Its much easier to rule in/out those involved in the actual act of the abductions if you can confidently verify where they were at the exact time of day. (Weekends are obviously harder)

Hypothetically speaking, if BVE was definitely at his place of employment on the day PS disappeared, it might open doors to confirming & identifying other key players.
 

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Sewer de Lance

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Interestingly the Wikipedia page has been massively cut since a few days ago. All suspects and known associates were listed and now they are not. It only lists the five murder victims.
Even the names where the suppression orders have been lifted? I wonder if Wikipedia is concerned about potential legal ramifications regarding defamation & slander?
 

DaTBird187

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Even the names where the suppression orders have been lifted? I wonder if Wikipedia is concerned about potential legal ramifications regarding defamation & slander?
It mentions BVE obviously, as he is the only one ever charged. No other names are mentioned at all. Two days ago literally everyone associated with the case was listed.
 

John Barnes

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In regards to possible vehicles used in the abductions, couldn‘t the police just simply run checks through department of roads & transport to cross check what vehicle was registered to suspect at the time?

On another of couple of topics in relation to the crimes;

1) On where the bodies were dumped, has there been any discussion whether these were thought to be random locations, or did the perpetrators have some sort of close affinity to each place?

2) Have the police ever been able to definitively establish where the actual act of killing took place?

- We know the evidence is clear that RK was held captive at BVE residence for a period of time but unlikely murdered there given BVEs mum also living there.

- We know for a fact that individuals were routinely taken to Prince St, Alberton to be raped & abused, but could any of the victims at any point of time be physically linked to that address?

- My instinct tells me that the killers would have chosen a more secluded location to perform the horrific dismembering & rough surgical procedure (ML & Muir in particular)
I have been told there was a unit on OG road klemzig used as well . The unit was smashed up by a rape victims friends after he got away . If possible can anyone find out if one of the suspects lived around there please . This was after Alan died .


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Kurve

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I believe Peter Stogneff was abducted on a Thursday. Do you know if NM disappeared after business hours or before?

Its much easier to rule in/out those involved in the actual act of the abductions if you can confidently verify where they were at the exact time of day.

Hypothetically speaking, if BVE was definitely at his place of employment on the day PS disappeared, it might open doors to confirming & identifying other key players.
Neil Muir was last seen on Monday afternoon, 27th August 1979 according to the ebook, crime stoppers has his last movements as 'unclear' and he was found Tuesday morning.

Charlie confirmed a bit further back that in relation to Alan's disappearance at least, the police had BVEs work attendance record for the relevant dates so I assume they would have thought to check where he was when the other victims disappeared.

How great would it be to have access to their files?
 

JezMez

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Neil Muir was also taken on a school or work day, a Monday and he was found on the Tuesday. Given the similarities in the dismemberments of Stogneff and Muir, I'd like to know a bit more about Didi and confirmation of where he was living when Neil Muir was murdered. I'm thinking it might have been the Alberton address.

I haven't heard much about what Didi did for work but my understanding is that most of the TGs worked in the entertainment industry so their busy days and nights would be towards the end of the week and over the weekend. Their free days in the late 70s would more likely be Sunday through to Thursday.
I don't think DiDi ever lived there. The ebook says he lived at Chatham and in Hope Valley where Stogneff lived. I think at Prince St it was Pru, Kerry, and Lewis.
 

Sewer de Lance

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Hi Charlie, if you don’t mind me asking you a question.

Have you ever had a discussion with any of the prominent Investigators of the case where they have disclosed to you in private the names they know with absolute certainty, played a pivotal role in the murders?
 
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JezMez

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In regards to possible vehicles used in the abductions, couldn‘t the police just simply run checks through department of roads & transport to cross check what vehicle was registered to suspect at the time?

On another of couple of topics in relation to the crimes;

1) On where the bodies were dumped, has there been any discussion whether these were thought to be random locations, or did the perpetrators have some sort of close affinity to each place?

2) Have the police ever been able to definitively establish where the actual act of killing took place?

- We know the evidence is clear that RK was held captive at BVE residence for a period of time but unlikely murdered there given BVEs mum also living there.

- We know for a fact that individuals were routinely taken to Prince St, Alberton to be raped & abused, but could any of the victims at any point of time be physically linked to that address?

- My instinct tells me that the killers would have chosen a more secluded location to perform the horrific dismembering & rough surgical procedure (ML & Muir in particular)
Police tracked BVE's cars. One he painted the boot and sold it soon after one of the murders (IIRC)

1. ebook speculates Langley was dumped at that location because it was a short drive from Mr R's.
2. Not with any of the crimes. This is the critical evidence they could never find.

No murder victims linked to Prince St. Personally, I don't think any of them were taken there.
 

JezMez

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I have been told there was a unit on OG road klemzig used as well . The unit was smashed up by a rape victims friends after he got away . If possible can anyone find out if one of the suspects lived around there please . This was after Alan died .


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lol "O G" Rd. Thought it might be short for Old Greenhill Rd or something, but I looked it up and it's called O G Rd. Who ever named it that was the Original Gangster.
 

Sewer de Lance

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Neil Muir was last seen on Monday afternoon, 27th August 1979 according to the ebook, crime stoppers has his last movements as 'unclear' and he was found Tuesday morning.

Charlie confirmed a bit further back that in relation to Alan's disappearance at least, the police had BVEs work attendance record for the relevant dates so I assume they would have thought to check where he was when the other victims disappeared.

How great would it be to have access to their files?
These unspeakable crimes are just mind boggling. I don’t think I can recall on top of my head another Serial murder case where there are so many different actors involved.

The majority of Serial Killings are normally carried out by one perpetrator, maybe two at most (as in case of the Truro Murders), which makes the Family Murders somewhat unique.
 
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Sewer de Lance

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Police tracked BVE's cars. One he painted the boot and sold it soon after one of the murders (IIRC)

1. ebook speculates Langley was dumped at that location because it was a short drive from Mr R's.
2. Not with any of the crimes. This is the critical evidence they could never find.

No murder victims linked to Prince St. Personally, I don't think any of them were taken there.
Did the police ever subpoena the rental, mortgage, & company lease records of all the persons of interest which have so far been named?

Obviously it didn’t occur in a public place, which leaves us with three likely remaining suitable locations:

1) One of their own residences
2) A place of business
3) An untenated rental property (either commercial or residential).

Remember they are either moving an incapacitated or deceased person from vehicle to abuse/murder site on multiple occasions.

You are definitely not attempting this during daylight hours in a populated region, & you would even have extreme reservations of undertaking this task at night.

So therefore, they must of had access to a place with a roller door garage to facilitate the movement of the bodies. It would take at least two fit & abled men to move a body from point A to B.
 
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SquiffyRae

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Speaking of locations victims were dumped, I found one very weird detail in the Canberra Times article listed in Casefile's sources.

It mentions during the time everyone was searching for him, an anonymous caller kept calling in to the same radio show and saying police should look into the Mount Crawford area. They also suggested they should search for a caravan 8 miles east or south-east from where Richard Kelvin could be found. Police actually found evidence a caravan had been parked at that spot but had since been moved.

Given the apparent timing of these calls (before RK's body had been dumped) it seems most likely this was just a crank caller who with the benefit of hindsight got lucky. Maybe he had a weird vendetta against some guy living in a caravan in the Mount Crawford Forest who knows. Still very creepy though.

1) On where the bodies were dumped, has there been any discussion whether these were thought to be random locations, or did the perpetrators have some sort of close affinity to each place?
Not that there's any relation at all but I noticed the location Peter Stogneff was dumped (on a farm adjacent to Middle Beach Road at Two Wells) isn't that far from Lower Light where 11 years later Bunting, Wagner and Barry Lane buried the first of the Snowtown victims Clinton Tresize. That area due north of Adelaide seems to be pretty popular for serial killers leaving their victims on farms.

Evidently it's pretty effective. Peter Stogneff had the longest gap between his disappearance and his remains being located and even then it was largely by chance that a farmer decided to clear some land. Had he not done that, it could've been much longer between his murder and the discovery of his remains. Similarly, it took about 2 years for Clinton Tresize's remains to be found.

The thing that strikes me is there was never much of an attempt made to conceal the bodies. Alan was meant to end up in the water at the reservoir but they quite clearly just threw him and didn't stick around to be certain he was in the water. Neil Muir was dumped at a known fishing spot. Peter Stogneff was left in bushes on a farmer's property. Mark Langley and Richard Kelvin were in bushland in the Adelaide hills but were both found relatively quickly. They seemed pretty damn confident that they couldn't be found cause they really didn't care if their victims' bodies were discovered
 

John Barnes

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lol "O G" Rd. Thought it might be short for Old Greenhill Rd or something, but I looked it up and it's called O G Rd. Who ever named it that was the Original Gangster.
Lol that is were I was when we had a chat the other day .


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Sewer de Lance

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Speaking of locations victims were dumped, I found one very weird detail in the Canberra Times article listed in Casefile's sources.

It mentions during the time everyone was searching for him, an anonymous caller kept calling in to the same radio show and saying police should look into the Mount Crawford area. They also suggested they should search for a caravan 8 miles east or south-east from where Richard Kelvin could be found. Police actually found evidence a caravan had been parked at that spot but had since been moved.

Given the apparent timing of these calls (before RK's body had been dumped) it seems most likely this was just a crank caller who with the benefit of hindsight got lucky. Maybe he had a weird vendetta against some guy living in a caravan in the Mount Crawford Forest who knows. Still very creepy though.



Not that there's any relation at all but I noticed the location Peter Stogneff was dumped (on a farm adjacent to Middle Beach Road at Two Wells) isn't that far from Lower Light where 11 years later Bunting, Wagner and Barry Lane buried the first of the Snowtown victims Clinton Tresize. That area due north of Adelaide seems to be pretty popular for serial killers leaving their victims on farms.

Evidently it's pretty effective. Peter Stogneff had the longest gap between his disappearance and his remains being located and even then it was largely by chance that a farmer decided to clear some land. Had he not done that, it could've been much longer between his murder and the discovery of his remains. Similarly, it took about 2 years for Clinton Tresize's remains to be found.

The thing that strikes me is there was never much of an attempt made to conceal the bodies. Alan was meant to end up in the water at the reservoir but they quite clearly just threw him and didn't stick around to be certain he was in the water. Neil Muir was dumped at a known fishing spot. Peter Stogneff was left in bushes on a farmer's property. Mark Langley and Richard Kelvin were in bushland in the Adelaide hills but were both found relatively quickly. They seemed pretty damn confident that they couldn't be found cause they really didn't care if their victims' bodies were discovered
Was the location public land at the time & easily accessible? If it was private land there might be some merit to the story.
It’s strange that the anonymous caller rang in on multiple occasion, but like you said it is more then likely he had some sort of personal gripe with the caravan being there.

However, It would be interesting to actually hear the callers tone of voice & delivery mannerisms...maybe there was a sense of fear & urgency In his voice?.
 

John Barnes

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Hi Charlie, if you don’t mind me asking you a question.

Have you ever had a discussion with any of the prominent Investigators of the case where they have disclosed to you in private the names they know with assurance played a pivotal role in the abductions & murders?
No police officer has ever told anyone the names besides bve . In 1988 I had tk and pv at moms house and I asked about a list of names we had put together . Tk said I can not tell you yes or no . But when I said all the names one by one his face went red , bright red and did not know where to look . After I finished he asked “ how the hell did you get those names “ I just smiled back . That was the closest any copper ever got to telling us . The list was about 12 names and I have found out that same were not involved in the killings but most were in the raping of boys . About 3 were not in on it at all but knew the people who were . Brown, Woodard , dr , bve , pf , LT , Storn , dsd were all on there 3 were not in on it and one is still a 50/50 . Non of us had b on the list back then .


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John Barnes

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You all should know at the time I dropped the names I was one crazy person . The cops hatted me as I was a lose cannon and wanted to lock me up to try to control me . After the committal and after I went to the shop they would put 5 officers in the box with bve in the preliminary hearing when ever I walked in . I was removed from the committal once and the preliminary hearing 3 times all together for looking at bve. They were never going to give me any names nor mom or even one of the other victims families just in case They gave them to me . If any of you have photos or footage from news reports you will see me or parts of me next to mom and Cherie . About 10 years ago I started a fb page called justices . On it a said all I knew at the time . I have removed the fb account but I believe that the page is still up . It was a close page as I only want people I knew involved but others did get in . The funny thing is that the cops started babysitting me again after I did that . The minute I closed my old fb account they stopped .


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Cendrillon

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If you have a look at way back machine, you can see the previous entries for the wiki page. Definitely has been amended in the last 48 hours

If you click the "View History" link at the top of the primary Wikipedia page, you can see a list of all IP addresses and usernames of contributors who have made the edits... interesting reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_Murders

You can also click the revision history links for each edit to see what was changed/removed/added.
 
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Kurve

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Bevan Spencer von Einem
  • Born 1946
  • Age in 1979 - 33
  • Convicted of murder of Richard Kelvin
  • Lived in Paradise with his Mum during the time at 13/3 Rowney Ave and 7 Day St.
  • Worked as an accountant at Pipeline Supplies of Australia which was on South Rd in Regency Park
  • In 1991 he was charged with the murders of Alan Barnes and Mark Langley on the basis of evidence provided by co-suspect Mr B. Police dropped the charges because Mr B's credibility became more and more into question - he was saying BVE was responsible for the Beaumonts and the Adelaide Oval abductions.
  • Had a sexual relationship with victim Neil Muir approximately four years before Muir's death
  • According to Mr B, BVE's favoured place to cruise for hitchhikers was from the corner of King William St and North Terrace, over the City Bridge, through North Adelaide where King William changes into O'Connell St, and then a right turn up Main North Rd to The Big Scotsman Motel on the corner of Nottage Terrace. He would cruise that route up and down, looking for victims.
Mr R
  • His name is currently under suppression
  • Age in 1979 - approx 33
  • Often referred to as "the business man"
  • Still runs his business in an inner city money suburb.
  • Was living with co-suspect Stephen George Woodards at the time
  • SAPOL believe he was heavily involved
  • Would arrive at the Alberton transgender house to abuse young men and boys that BVE had already drugged and raped.
  • SAPOL believe he was in the car when Kelvin was abducted and was in the car shortly after Barnes was picked up
  • Mr B testified in 1990 that he was in BVE's car when they by chance saw and picked up Alan Barnes hitch-hiking. BVE gave Barnes some alcohol and sedatives and then went and called Mr R who arrived shortly after. Mr B conveniently claimed he then left BVE and Mr R with a now unconscious Barnes, but not before BVE invited him to come along and "do some surgery".
Mr B
  • His name is currently under suppression
  • Age in 1979 - 23
  • Born in the UK in 1956
  • Former child prostitute
  • He met Bevan von Einem in 1979 (possibly earlier)
  • He currently lives in Adelaide
  • Has lived in Melbourne, Sydney, and Brisbane. At some stage between 1983 and 1985 he spent time in Brisbane.
  • SAPOL believe he was heavily involved
  • Two days after Alan Barnes was found he called police and told them it was BVE.
  • Mr B made a lot of statements about BVE from day one. He told police in the original investigation about how he and BVE were picking up hitchhikers, drugging them, and raping them. He's a dodgy guy but police believe his information to be true. He told them stuff that over time matched up with what they discovered about BVE.
  • Testified against BVE in 1990 (in case re Barnes and Langley) and claimed he was in BVE's car when they picked up Barnes. He then testified that BVE drugged Barnes then called Mr R who arrived shortly after to join in. He conveniently claimed he then left BVE and Mr R with a now unconscious Barnes, but not before BVE invited him to come along and "do some surgery". SAPOL believe otherwise.
  • Mr B always claimed he left just before BVE murdered people. "I was there, didn't like it, left, then met up with BVE two weeks later to pick up and rape some more dudes". Police think he was a lot more involved than he made out. One police officer thinks this guy has serial killer like qualities.
  • In 1990 (State v BVE re Barnes and Langley) Mr B testified;
o On a number of occasions he was present when the accused had picked up young men who were hitchhiking and given them alcohol and tablets.

o On one occasion he had seen the accused with a naked youth in the bedroom of a home to which the youth had been taken. The youth had a torch and an instrument similar to a large stainless steel crochet hook in his anus.

o He had been with the accused when the accused had given Barnes a lift in his car. He said that the incident took place while Barnes was hitchhiking near the northern parklands. Barnes said he wanted a lift to Salisbury. While in the car Barnes was given some drinks and tablets. He was asked if he wanted to go to a party and he said "Yes". The accused (BVE) drove back towards North Adelaide and stopped at a cafe. Later he stopped and made a telephone call. He told Mr B. that he had rung a man named Mr R and that he had arranged to meet Mr R near the toilets on the River Torrens bank, adjacent to the City bridge. Mr B. said the accused met and spoke to Mr R at this location. When the accused returned to the car he said to Mr B. "Do you want to come with us and do some surgery on this guy?" In response to a question from Mr B. the accused said that Mr R was going to come along. Mr B. said he left at this stage and walked up to the city. Throughout the time that they were in the vicinity of the toilets Barnes appeared to be unconscious in the rear seat of the vehicle.

  • A statement from Mr B's sister, which was read to the court, said he had admitted to her that he was present when Barnes was killed.
  • The glaring hole in Mr B's story: Alan Barnes was abducted on the Sunday afternoon on Grand Junction Rd. Mr B claims in was on the Friday night on Main North Rd. It's speculated he changed the date and time to give himself an alibi - the nightclub on North Terrace.
Dr Stephen George Woodards
  • Born 1949
  • Age in 1979 - 29
  • A doctor that specialises in Physiotherapy
  • Mark Langley had been cut open with surgical instrument and part of his bowel missing. SAPOL speculate his captors had to remove something they had placed and lost in his rectum. SAPOL suspect Woodards did the work.
  • Now living in Bondi and working as a doctor in Maroubra, Sydney.
  • His lover was Richard Brown
  • Lived on Second Ave, St Peters
  • He was known as "Dr Steve" and had a reputation for drugging young men at pubs and then "helping the drunk person leave the premises and give them a lift home".
  • He was charged in 2011 on 5 counts of raping a male under 17. The charges didn't stick because it couldn't be proven that the victims were under 17 at the time.
Richard Dutton Brown
  • Age in 1979 - 30
  • Died in 2010 aged 62
  • He was appointed to the Magistrate's Bench in 1979 as a 30 year old
  • Often referred to as "the high profile lawyer"
  • At the time he was in a relationship with co-suspect Stephen Woodards
Denis Edward St Denis
  • Age in 1979 - 35
  • Born 1944
  • Died 30/11/2002 aged 58
  • BVE's hairdresser friend
  • Had a salon at 60 Knightsbridge Rd, Hazelwood Park. He and his Mum Dot lived at the back.
  • His nickname was "Pussy"
  • He was born Dennis Ronald Edwards and was aka Tucker or Frank Denis
  • BVE went to his salon and had his hair dyed the day after Kelvin went missing
  • Allegedly rented a unit with BVE in Lambert St, Joslin. Both lived with their mothers and needed a place to take young men/boys. There was also one in Tenyson St, Medindie
  • Diaries of one of his friends (Trevor Peters) were found that document suspicious discussions between BVE and St Denis, as well as the witnessing of photos of an unconscious Alan Barnes
  • Kelvin was in captivity for 5 weeks and in that time his car had been cut. SAPOL believe this was St Denis
Mr L
  • Born circa 1947
  • Boyfriend of Mr R
  • Purchase his upmarket house in 1972. Mr R lived there with him during the time of the murders
  • Mr R and Mr L still live together in the same house
Donald John Storen
  • Born 1949
  • It's unclear what involvement he had but he has been outed **********
  • Jailed in Lombok, Indonesia from 2006-2010 for underage sex offences with four boys aged 13 - 15.
Lewis Turtur
  • Born 1953
  • Age in 1979 - 26
  • He is a transvestite/drag queen. Uses the name Lana when he cross dresses.
  • Transgender who shared a house in Alberton with Firman and Miss K
  • Often referred to as "the brother of an Olympian"
  • Allowed BVE to use his house to rape drugged victims. BVE supplies Turtur with mandrax for letting him use their house
  • SAPOL believe one or more of the transgenders were in BVE's car when Kelvin was abducted
  • Moved to Sydney soon after. Still lives there.
  • SAPOL don't think he/she was heavily involved but think they may have known where the boys/men were being held
  • In the 1990 court case (State v BVE re Barnes and Langley), Turtur gave evidence that the accused had given one youth an enema and on another occasion he had seen a torch light showing from under the bed clothes when the accused was in bed with a youth.
Prudence Charmaine Firman
  • Age in 1979 - 24
  • Born Gregory Francis Acton, 1955
  • A post-op transgender. Gender reassignment operation completed in 1982
  • Born 5/05/1955
  • Died 10/10/2008 aged 53
  • Lived at the Alberton share house with Turtur and Sarah Novak
  • Moved to Sydney with Turtur and Sarah Novak after the Bevan von Einem trial
  • Returned to Adelaide and lived at 46 Shipsters Rd, Kensington Park with Sarah Novak. Next door to Trevor Peters whose diaries were found by his brother after his death. This diaries spoke about the Family and named the names that are named here. A link to this article can be found under Denis St Denis.
  • She is one of the girls who were used by BVE to lure males into his car.
  • Between Langley and Kelvin she picked up a boy with BVE. He was drugged. Firman had sex with him before he blacked out and the BVE did his thing. She was charged with rape but was acquitted because it couldn't be proven that it wasn't consensual
  • Was living back in Adelaide by 1989 and was convicted of dealing heroin
Sarah Leanne Novak
  • Age in 1979 - 22
  • Born 20/04/1957
  • Died 16/12/2014 aged 57
  • A post-op transgender
  • Birth name was Stephen Stanton
  • Commenced gender reassignment therapy at 15 in 1972
  • Met Neil Muir around this time.
  • Lived next door to Trevor Peters at 46 Shipsters Rd, Kensington Park with Prue Firman
  • Grew up in Mile End
  • Also believed to have lived in Archer St North Adelaide with Pru.
  • Was close with BVE and Neil Muir. Often lured boys for BVE.
Noel Terrence Thomas Brook
  • Age in 1979 - 23
  • Born 1956
  • Died 17/01/1998 aged 42
  • He is a transvestite/drag queen.
  • Known as DiDi
  • Indigenous Australian background
  • Lived in Hope Valley - on direct path between Stogneff's house and Tea Tree Plaza (TTP)
  • Occasionally raped unconscious boys that BVE brought back to the house, after BVE had finished with them

via Wiki.
 

SquiffyRae

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Link to the history of revisions where it looks like Mr. R has been mucking about on the Wiki page.

That's gotta be someone taking the mickey surely. I doubt Mr R would be adding things about his own partner onto the suspect list.

Now if I were to hazard a guess at someone who might be removing a lot of info without a login name...
 

Kurve

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That's gotta be someone taking the mickey surely. I doubt Mr R would be adding things about his own partner onto the suspect list.

Now if I were to hazard a guess at someone who might be removing a lot of info without a login name...
The Beaumont children's wiki seems to be tampered with a bit as well. It's like a Wiki War.
 

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