Unsolved The Family Murders

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binanceSA

Draftee
Sep 13, 2021
2
0
AFL Club
Adelaide
Yeah read all that. Plus the stuff in Debbie’s book.

Seems like he’s got info and might be more keen to talk now he’s already been charged for some historical stuff?

mhmm just a thought

What sort info are you looking for? There is a lot available just by googling his name. Robert William Symonds.
 

Macka_321

Debutant
Jan 25, 2018
106
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It’s definitely the businessman who had the booked pulled for legal reasons. 30 odd years he’s had his name suppressed what a joke.
 

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squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
121
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It’s definitely the businessman who had the booked pulled for legal reasons. 30 odd years he’s had his name suppressed what a joke.
I haven't got the Banquet book but from what I understand there was a brief reference to him that was made in a newspaper article where he spoke to the journalist and was quoted. I can't see how that breaches a suppression order? If you go to the state library it's there for all to see.
 

DropBearess

Debutant
Apr 3, 2019
77
174
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Anyone recognise either of these two, seen leaving one of BVE’s trials?
I've seen that pic before; maybe here. I think l replied at the time. I'm fairly sure l know the guy in the cardi. I've unfortunately misplaced some old pics taken around the same time which would help with ID. He would have been 40 in 1979.
 

Cendrillon

Draftee
Feb 22, 2021
11
18
AFL Club
Collingwood
It’s definitely the businessman who had the booked pulled for legal reasons. 30 odd years he’s had his name suppressed what a joke.
I agree likely but you can't say 'definitely'... there were a handful of other matters raised in the book that could have been potential grounds for injunction, not necessarily suppression-related, there may also be suppression orders on foot we are not even aware of aside from the 'known' identities. Dunstan in a sauna with teenage schoolboys for one...
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
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So have I got it right that the subject has to agree or be dead to have a suppression lifted?
Even if the subject is dead, the subject’s surviving family members can still object.
The DPP can also oppose an application I think.
As I understand it, the suppression’s of alleged perpetrators are all generic - “in the interests of the administration of justice”.
 

squawk

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Sep 22, 2008
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Interesting as to why anyone (or family) would bother saying yes then.
Lewis Turtur did LOL.

At the end of the day a Court makes the decision, based on submissions made. It’s a complex scenario but if the DPP objects then it is a hard(er) task. If they don’t object then in a way they are conceding that justice is never likely to be administered…..
 

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FR0GGY

Press the button
Oct 9, 2004
50,232
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Lewis Turtur did LOL.

At the end of the day a Court makes the decision, based on submissions made. It’s a complex scenario but if the DPP objects then it is a hard(er) task. If they don’t object then in a way they are conceding that justice is never likely to be administered…..
Yeah that’s what got me thinking and then that 4 out of the 5 were dead, so I assumed death meant you didn’t need permission to lift it.
So the other 7 are obviously more high profile and objected?
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
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Yeah that’s what got me thinking and then that 4 out of the 5 were dead, so I assumed death meant you didn’t need permission to lift it.
So the other 7 are obviously more high profile and objected?
I’m just going off the Frozen Lies podcast here - from what I remember it was like this:
Debi said there were about 30 suppression’s all up. (I think there’s more, as discussed below).

Debi Marshall then came up with a list of 12 she wanted to ask to be lifted by the Courts.
The DPP explained it would take a lot of effort to track them all down, or their families - ie the twelve Debi wanted.
Debi then narrowed her list of 12, down to a list of 5. Of that 5, 4 were dead and one was (is) alive.

Lewis Turtur (alive) agreed to have his lifted.
The other four (dead) were lifted - but I don’t know whether families agreed or whether families couldn’t be traced.
They were Brian Gant, Pru Firman, Noel Brook and Martin Smith ( a victim of something along the way).

Brook was adopted and an only child. So that may be a no brainer.
Firman still has family alive and well. Nonetheless it was lifted.
Gant - I don’t know about his family circumstances. Lifted.
Smith - I haven’t a clue why Debi wanted a victim’s name lifted.
Debi’s application was only for five. However, I believe another person did object (the businessman), even though he wasn’t named in the application!

Like you, I suspect the other 7 on Debi’s list are most likely thought of (by her) as principal co-conspirators. My guess is that these 7 include the doctor, the businessman and his boyfriend, the key witness Mr B (who was given immunity with the exception of immunity from murder), SN, MC and then take your pick as to who the other one is (Number 7 on Debi’s list). It could be any of

the hairdresser (DSD) - dead
the magistrate (RB) - dead
the promoter (DS)
Clocker (CW)
the nurse (JBL)
A number of queens - definitely PJ, and KW. Possibly also Marguerita, SM, BV, CB, GZ, JW, KB.
someone I will call “the link man” - DK
Someone known as “the young lawyer” - but is not so young nowadays.
Another two doctors and someone I will call “the medico“. (One doc is dead).
Someone I will call “the butcher“, GM
Someone I will call “the MC”, MP
Someone I will call “the mechanic”, RC
Someone I will call “the POI” or “person of interest”, BM
Someone I will call “the teacher”, TP


As best I know, other than the top two of this last list, the mechanic and one doctor, the rest are all still alive. But I should say that I don’t actually know who is actually definitely on the suppression list, nor do I know the actual names of PJ or Marguerita. So some are definitely suppressed, others I am just speculating are suppressed.

So out of the Debi Marshall list of 30, (assuming all of the above have suppression orders), there are more than 30 people in total shown above.

You can then add witnesses and victims to the list as well so I guess there are a lot more than 30 given about 12 victims turned up to testify against Von Einem, and however many witnesses on top of that - at least another 25 I’d say….

Debi had one victim’s name lifted from suppression and of course she may want others in that category lifted too (not sure why but prob for storytelling purposes).

Wow, that post took some thinking through….
 
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Raisedeyebrow

Rookie
May 13, 2020
25
29
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
A name not suppressed is Jim Priestly. I don’t know how he fits in but Von Einem knew him and mentioned his name during police questioning. Does anyone know of this person?

Another name was a friend of his “Peter T”. Anyone familiar with that person at all?
Can you share a link to the police questioning. First time that this name has come up that I am aware of. How old would Jim be now would you think? I do know of a man with this name. What more can you share please Squawk
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
121
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Can you share a link to the police questioning. First time that this name has come up that I am aware of. How old would Jim be now would you think? I do know of a man with this name. What more can you share please Squawk
I came across it in the ebook by Roles and McInerney. It is talking about BVE saying he dropped off RK outside the RAH and gave him $20 to get a cab home. BVE said he did the same for “Jim Priestly”. $20 in 1983 is apparently the equivalent of about $100 in 2020.
3EDAE7ED-A62B-4F4C-8F0D-13E50F7C0360.jpeg
 

Attachments

ElizabethG

Draftee
Aug 18, 2021
10
15
AFL Club
Adelaide
I’m just going off the Frozen Lies podcast here - from what I remember it was like this:
Debi said there were about 30 suppression’s all up. (I think there’s more, as discussed below).

Debi Marshall then came up with a list of 12 she wanted to ask to be lifted by the Courts.
The DPP explained it would take a lot of effort to track them all down, or their families - ie the twelve Debi wanted.
Debi then narrowed her list of 12, down to a list of 5. Of that 5, 4 were dead and one was (is) alive.

Lewis Turtur (alive) agreed to have his lifted.
The other four (dead) were lifted - but I don’t know whether families agreed or whether families couldn’t be traced.
They were Brian Gant, Pru Firman, Noel Brook and Martin Smith ( a victim of something along the way).

Brook was adopted and an only child. So that may be a no brainer.
Firman still has family alive and well. Nonetheless it was lifted.
Gant - I don’t know about his family circumstances. Lifted.
Smith - I haven’t a clue why Debi wanted a victim’s name lifted.
Debi’s application was only for five. However, I believe another person did object (the businessman), even though he wasn’t named in the application!

Like you, I suspect the other 7 on Debi’s list are most likely thought of (by her) as principal co-conspirators. My guess is that these 7 include the doctor, the businessman and his boyfriend, the key witness Mr B (who was given immunity with the exception of immunity from murder), SN, MC and then take your pick as to who the other one is (Number 7 on Debi’s list). It could be any of

the hairdresser (DSD) - dead
the magistrate (RB) - dead
the promoter (DS)
Clocker (CW)
the nurse (JBL)
A number of queens - definitely PJ, and KW. Possibly also Marguerita, SM, BV, CB, GZ, JW, KB.
someone I will call “the link man” - DK
Someone known as “the young lawyer” - but is not so young nowadays.
Another two doctors and someone I will call “the medico“. (One doc is dead).
Someone I will call “the butcher“, GM
Someone I will call “the MC”, MP
Someone I will call “the mechanic”, RC
Someone I will call “the POI” or “person of interest”, BM
Someone I will call “the teacher”, TP


As best I know, other than the top two of this last list, the mechanic and one doctor, the rest are all still alive. But I should say that I don’t actually know who is actually definitely on the suppression list, nor do I know the actual names of PJ or Marguerita. So some are definitely suppressed, others I am just speculating are suppressed.

So out of the Debi Marshall list of 30, (assuming all of the above have suppression orders), there are more than 30 people in total shown above.

You can then add witnesses and victims to the list as well so I guess there are a lot more than 30 given about 12 victims turned up to testify against Von Einem, and however many witnesses on top of that - at least another 25 I’d say….

Debi had one victim’s name lifted from suppression and of course she may want others in that category lifted too (not sure why but prob for storytelling purposes).

Wow, that post took some thinking through….
That's a very good summary. As you quote the initials of the nurse as JBL, I suppose you know her full name? I only know her as "Jacquie", but haven't come across her full name yet...
What urge must a woman have to participate in all this? I mean, sexual desire can be ruled out obviously. The only thing I can think of is heavy drug addiction...
 

ElizabethG

Draftee
Aug 18, 2021
10
15
AFL Club
Adelaide
I came across it in the ebook by Roles and McInerney. It is talking about BVE saying he dropped off RK outside the RAH and gave him $20 to get a cab home. BVE said he did the same for “Jim Priestly”. $20 in 1983 is apparently the equivalent of about $100 in 2020.View attachment 1241401
Maybe he made the name up...or at least the money story...as I recall he sometimes did that (e.g. "Mostyn"?)
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
121
925
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Norwood Football Club
That's a very good summary. As you quote the initials of the nurse as JBL, I suppose you know her full name? I only know her as "Jacquie", but haven't come across her full name yet...
What urge must a woman have to participate in all this? I mean, sexual desire can be ruled out obviously. The only thing I can think of is heavy drug addiction...
All names of the above are known except for PJ and Marguerita. It requires extensive and comprehensive research - the names won’t just be happened upon. (Nor have any names been identified from access to court documents). The known names are all genuine, verified people.

There is also someone I will call “the chemist” - CR. (Dead).
And someone I will call “the muscle” - possibly PK.
A number of pedophile rings also had members that overlapped (ie were associates of) the family members.
It all seemingly started with an underground porn network. That likely included (over time) DS, RC, RS, GG, RM, CR and possibly JB.
There were some genuine links to “people in high places” but it is unlikely that it was anything more than members associating socially with those people.
There was probably also an illicit drug network that overlapped - ie not pharma but actual drugs. And obviously the pharma suppliers too.
There are a lot of moving parts - it’s a bit like a bicycle in many ways with wheels, pedals, handlebars, a seat, a bell, lights etc!

Why was JBL involved? Drugs is very likely. But in the network, everyone wanted something and everyone could get what they wanted as long as they worked together. It was a bit like a cartel - kingpins and bottom feeders and everyone in between, all relying on one another.
 
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squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
121
925
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Maybe he made the name up...or at least the money story...as I recall he sometimes did that (e.g. "Mostyn"?)
That is certainly a possibility. Short of asking him and getting a truthful answer, the only alternative is to look into it further! The ebook doesn’t say “police looked in to this and it went nowhere so it was dismissed as a fabrication”. Rather, the authors chose for some reason to put that paragraph in and chose to stay silent in relation to the context for it being included in the book. That implies there is more to it. In the case of “Mostyn”, the ebook made it very clear that he was deemed by police to be fictitious. This wasn’t so when it came to mentioning Jim Priestly.
 

ElizabethG

Draftee
Aug 18, 2021
10
15
AFL Club
Adelaide
All names of the above are known except for PJ and Marguerita. It requires extensive and comprehensive research - the names won’t just be happened upon. (Nor have any names been identified from access to court documents). The known names are all genuine, verified people.

There is also someone I will call “the chemist” - CR. (Dead).
And someone I will call “the muscle” - possibly PK.
A number of pedophile rings also had members that overlapped (ie were associates of) the family members.
It all seemingly started with an underground porn network. That likely included (over time) DS, RC, RS, GG, RM, CR and possibly JB.
There were some genuine links to “people in high places” but it is unlikely that it was anything more than members associating socially with those people.
There was probably also an illicit drug network that overlapped - ie not pharma but actual drugs. And obviously the pharma suppliers too.
There are a lot of moving parts - it’s a bit like a bicycle in many ways with wheels, pedals, handlebars, a seat, a bell, lights etc!

Why was JBL involved? Drugs is very likely. But in the network, everyone wanted something and everyone could get what they wanted as long as they worked together. It was a bit like a cartel - kingpins and bottom feeders and everyone in between, all relying on one another.
That's right, it really takes a lot of effort...I think I know most of the initials you are mentioning... I'm in the dark about others, but determined to find out. It's so frustrating that even with the names, locations, etc. that are known, you can't do anything about it...

Like you said, there are different overlapping circles and my mind map at home keeps growing and growing...yet it's surprising that with all these people involved only a small minority of them talked (a bit). One would assume that with dozens of people involved someone would spill their guts sooner or later - especially the ones who were related to the murders. I wonder how many of the people you mentioned actually participated in the ordeal of the victims or at least knew were they were held or other details regarding their abductions.

There was speculation about 5 or 6 people ("the inner circle"), but I am sure many more knew at least something or heard von Einem say something as I think he was feeling rather safe in the years before 1983...
 

ElizabethG

Draftee
Aug 18, 2021
10
15
AFL Club
Adelaide
That is certainly a possibility. Short of asking him and getting a truthful answer, the only alternative is to look into it further! The ebook doesn’t say “police looked in to this and it went nowhere so it was dismissed as a fabrication”. Rather, the authors chose for some reason to put that paragraph in and chose to stay silent in relation to the context for it being included in the book. That implies there is more to it. In the case of “Mostyn”, the ebook made it very clear that he was deemed by police to be fictitious. This wasn’t so when it came to mentioning Jim Priestly.

Yes, I am sure there is more to so many things...I wish access to the court documents was easier...I was in contact with the SA State Archives a few weeks ago and tried to obtain the files of 1984, but unfortunately I experienced the same problems Debi stated in her book. It's kind of suspicious that they haven't been transferred to a digital database yet..
 

squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
121
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Yes, I am sure there is more to so many things...I wish access to the court documents was easier...I was in contact with the SA State Archives a few weeks ago and tried to obtain the files of 1984, but unfortunately I experienced the same problems Debi stated in her book. It's kind of suspicious that they haven't been transferred to a digital database yet..
I don’t have the Banquet book - it got recalled before I could get a copy!
I haven’t tried to access any of the Court documents either. I think you can apply to the registry to do so though. I’m not sure what State Archives have that the Courts don’t have, or vice versa.
Have you found anything out in your own research ElizabethG? What research have you been doing and what have you been focusing on?
 

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