Unsolved The Family Murders

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ElizabethG

Draftee
Aug 18, 2021
16
22
AFL Club
Adelaide
I don’t have the Banquet book - it got recalled before I could get a copy!
I haven’t tried to access any of the Court documents either. I think you can apply to the registry to do so though. I’m not sure what State Archives have that the Courts don’t have, or vice versa.
Have you found anything out in your own research ElizabethG? What research have you been doing and what have you been focusing on?
Thankfully I preordered the book and got it on my kindle now...is there a way to share it without the need of a flash drive? The book certainly gives some insights into BVE's background. (Side note: Apparently he and Harry Phipps knew each other!)
I contacted both the State Archives and also the Supreme Court. I was told a judge has to give his approval first, before the files can be retrieved from the archive. Since I'm not from SA and not able to visit the Research Centre in person, I asked the court if they could provide the documents online. They said they can copy and email them to me - but guess what - the price per page is 8.85 $, so with the entire trial documents containing approx. 10000 pages, hardly anyone can afford that... Apparently Debi wasn't able to obtain them for the same reasons.

Well, I feel that I've reached some kind of a "dead end" with my own research at the moment.. As I want to rely on facts as much as possible without drifting off into speculation too fast, my big goal was to get access to those court documents. But now without them and little chance that either BVE or DR or DK or one of the others involved who are still alive will talk, getting facts is tough.
So, at the moment I'm focusing mostly on piecing together all the names and addresses (+ finding out JBL's full name as I don't know it yet).
I have my own views and theories based on everything I've read, but feel like I and a lot of others have almost reached the point where researching is used to capacity and finally statements from those involved are needed to gain new insights.
What are you currently focusing on, squawk?
 

HK_Hawk

Team Captain
Jun 18, 2011
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Does anyone remember a Lawrence Tan being acquainted with Vivian Vidulich?
(She was living with him in Wollongong in around 1987.)
This is interesting on a personal level... such a small world.

I've followed this thread and case for years and always fascinated with the case. Having moved to, and lived in Adelaide around 82-84 in my early-mid teens, I remember the rumours, news stories and fear at the time. I happened to live in Brighton during that period and coincidently was a member of the Brighton SLSC. It wasn't until the last decade that I learned of Liddy and his story. I was at the club during those days when he was preying on nippers. I was extremely lucky to be just a touch older and out of the nipper category in those days. Anyway, I digress.

Back to your initial question... I was born in and grew up in Wollongong. I also happened to have gone to W'Gong Uni and studied art during the late 80s and Tan was indeed one of my lecturers. TBH, I have a vague recollection of a female connection with Tan in those days, but really cannot confirm who it was. I recall Tan tending to keep that aspect of his life private. I do remember he drove an Audi and I also recall he was a lecturer I admired and quite liked personally. He is still around, though not in the Gong anymore. And BTW, his first name is spelt differently.

I'm not up to speed with this recent interest in "Vivian Vidulich" having been away from this thread for quite a few months... what is the interest and where does it come from? Is this to do with the pulled publication by Marshall?
 

GreyCrow

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Mar 21, 2016
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This is interesting on a personal level... such a small world.

I've followed this thread and case for years and always fascinated with the case. Having moved to, and lived in Adelaide around 82-84 in my early-mid teens, I remember the rumours, news stories and fear at the time. I happened to live in Brighton during that period and coincidently was a member of the Brighton SLSC. It wasn't until the last decade that I learned of Liddy and his story. I was at the club during those days when he was preying on nippers. I was extremely lucky to be just a touch older and out of the nipper category in those days. Anyway, I digress.

Back to your initial question... I was born in and grew up in Wollongong. I also happened to have gone to W'Gong Uni and studied art during the late 80s and Tan was indeed one of my lecturers. TBH, I have a vague recollection of a female connection with Tan in those days, but really cannot confirm who it was. I recall Tan tending to keep that aspect of his life private. I do remember he drove an Audi and I also recall he was a lecturer I admired and quite liked personally. He is still around, though not in the Gong anymore. And BTW, his first name is spelt differently.

I'm not up to speed with this recent interest in "Vivian Vidulich" having been away from this thread for quite a few months... what is the interest and where does it come from? Is this to do with the pulled publication by Marshall?
Would it be spelt Laurens Tan?

*nobody is suggesting Tan is in any way associated with this thread but as a peripheral interest
 

squawk

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Sep 22, 2008
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Pine Needles and Neil Muir

The e book mentioned that Pine needles were found with the remains of Neil Muir's body.

It speculates that the pine needles could have come from a pine tree located in the grounds of the Calvary Hospital in North Adelaide.
The e book also talks about "Colin" being exploited on an autopsy table in a major hospital by a medico with after hours access. This would have to be the RAH. I'm not aware of any pine trees there - plus the mortuary was in the basement there.
Further, it mentions the old quarantine station at Torrens Island. Again, I'm not sure if there were pine trees there or not.
Posters on here have also discussed a possible pine tree in or near to Prince St, Alberton. However, it doesn't seem that the TG house there was in use until a year or two after the death of NM.
Was there a suggestion that there was a pine tree near/at Mr R's house? If so, I don't think the needles came from there either. You'll see why shortly.
I've also wondered if facilities could have been used at the Adelaide University School of Medicine? Again, I'm not about any pine trees nearby there either.


So what other options are there? A veterinary clinic? The Adelaide Zoo - animal treatment facilities? A mortuary at a funeral director's home? Maybe others as well....

Recent research has uncovered the existence of the 'old' City Morgue.
It was at the West Tce cemetery. Forensic autopsies were carried out there until December 1978, when its function was transferred to the new Forensic Science Centre in Divett Place. The new facility included a modern mortuary on the ground floor.

A mere six months after the new building was opened in Divett Place, AB and NM are dead. NM is dissected.
The old city morgue was located just off West Tce, not far south of the buildings at the main entrance. The morgue had its own entrance directly off West Tce.

In the vicinity of the old City Morgue, I found a map showing there are numerous "Aleppo Pine Trees" within the grounds of the cemetery. They are marked as number 11 species on the attached image.

So - what if someone still had access to the 'old' City Morgue, six months after it had closed? Organs could either be buried/dispersed in the cemetery itself, or tissue/organs could have alternatively been disposed of in a hospital or another medical facility? he could have them disposed at his new facility in Divett Place? It would be much easier to carry in a plastic bag with body parts than to bring in a whole body.

It would be easier to dismember a whole body in a place like the old city morgue, than try and get a whole body in to a hospital (or a university or similar) place and then spend hours dismembering it there.

Maybe, NM was taken to the old city morgue (its no more than 10 minutes at most from Millhouse's place in North Adelaide; and 5 minutes from Hindley St or Carrington St, and all of 2 minutes from Chatham St - the first TG house). Then "they" did the dissection. Some of the body was then contaminated by Pine needles at the cemetery - most likely by transfer from the vehicle(s) or a person(s) there as well. Who knows - maybe ML and PS were also cut/dismembered there too?

Images are attached for reference. The morgue and aerial pica are taken around 1975/76; the maps are from a report done in 1988.
I’ve been looking into these pine needles again that the Dissected book says were found with Neil Muir’s remains. I have visited a few locations to have a “look see” for myself. To put what I am about to offer into context, I recommend you go back to page 120 for the original post to see the accompanying images, which showed pictures of the old mortuary at West Terrace Cemetery and a historic map showing the location of pine trees which I uncovered in the State Library. That post is quoted above but the images are on the original post.

Firstly, it is said that Muir was at the residence of Dr Peter Millhouse. I have established that this was at 98 Stanley Street, North Adelaide. Coincidentally, the cottage next door at 98a has just been sold – here’s a link to some photos. https://foxrealestate.com.au/16-98a-stanley-street-north-adelaide-sa-5887056/

In the backyard there is a Plane Tree. Not a pine tree. So it is highly unlikely any pine needles came from this location originally, much less found there way into the bags carrying Muir’s remains. The Dissected book didn’t actually suggest this – I’m just making this point for the sake of completeness.

What the Dissected book did suggest was two locations where the needles could have come from. One was at the Torrens Island Quarantine Station. The other was at Calvary Hospital in North Adelaide.

I haven’t been to inspect Torrens Island – it isn’t readily accessible in any case. I looked for some information online and found a vague reference to Southern Cypress Pine Callitris gracilis. I couldn’t confirm it but if so, it appears to more akin to a standard confider looking tree albeit it grows bigger.

Therefore, the “needles” do not actually look like needles.
CDC85DD9-EA6B-422B-93B4-DAB345BD6F4A.jpeg


6D6304ED-146D-4A87-867E-6E91F0D27B8D.jpeg



This location was suggested as it is opposite Mutton Cove where Muir’s remains were found. I think that it is highly unlikely that the old Quarantine Station was the location where he was mutilated. It is a long way from the CBD and North Adelaide; it would have been difficult to access (especially overnight); and the two bags were found together on across the Port River (ie didn’t separate and were heavy in any case and unlikely to float across the river). That’s all in addition to the fact that the Quarantine Station was still open at the time of Muir’s death - On 9 December 1979, a global commission certified that smallpox had been eradicated, and this certification was officially accepted by the 33rd World Health Assembly in 1980. Following the declaration by the World Health Organisation of the eradication of smallpox in 1979, Torrens Island closed as a human quarantine station.

I’m ruling this location out, personally.
 

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squawk

Debutant
Sep 22, 2008
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Then we get to the old mortuary at Calvary Hospital. The Dissected authors favour this location for the source of the pine needles. Whilst I haven’t been able to ascertain the year this mortuary was decommissioned, it doesn’t look like a good prospect to me either.

A picture of the old mortuary is shown here -


If you look at the attached pictures, you will see that today there is only one pine tree there. It is near the Chapel Gate (for pedestrians) on Barnard Street, which is on the north perimeter of the hospital. The tree is between the fence and the Chapel – almost landlocked. The old mortuary is situated adjacent the western entrance to the rear car park. This is about 100m from the pine tree.

08FE18D8-5791-48A4-B23E-74523D781E3B.jpeg


The Dissected authors discuss Millhouse’s car being found in Barnard Street a few days later. They say it was seen at his house for a day or two after Muir disappeared, and then turned up “out of fuel” about 3-4 days later in Barnard St. It was parked outside Prof Jepson’s house and opposite Gary Weir Sampson’s house (the Derrance Stevenson case witness who worked next door to Stevenson). If this is the case, why would Millhouse move his car close to where they purportedly used the Calvary mortuary? Also, the location of the mortuary is in a ‘high traffic’ place.

One of these attachments is marked up – M is for mortuary, J is for Jepson’s house (I think), W for Weir’s house (I’m guessing) and P is for pine tree.

3558A859-D623-46C0-8AFE-F130F6C49840.jpeg


CA7FE0E6-AD81-462A-9679-685C2B6DAF40.jpeg


Finally, I looked for pine needles. I found only two examples on the Barnard St footpath. They are not needles as you might think. Rather, they are very small leaves bound together. See photo attached. I really cant see that when I only found two examples within 10m of the tree, that they would easily find themselves 100m away adjacent the mortuary.

44953EA0-C9C7-4FA4-A2D8-3508211DAF88.jpeg


So none of this adds up to me either.
 
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squawk

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Sep 22, 2008
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Next stop – West Tce cemetery.

As per my previous post showing the old map, I arrived to find that there are indeed a plethora of pine trees within 50m of the old mortuary at West Tce cemetery. What’s more, the trees (Aleppo pines and one other species) drop needles and cones prodigiously. And they are genuine pine needles.

The site of the old mortuary had its own gate for entry and exit. And to top it off, it was decommissioned that about the time of Neil’s murder. And one more thing. It was directly opposite the Elephant and Castle Hotel. This hotel was bought and owned by Abe Saffron. Saffron also owned Patches, the Mars Bar and the Australia Hotel. He was a prolific importer of porn and made his financial way in sex and vice. He was known to blackmail people by filming them in compromising situations. He was also allegedly connected to Lionel Murphy, who is alleged to have visited Derrance Stevenson’s house on the night of his murder.

This picture shows the site of the old mortuary. The pine trees are behind the photographer, about 50m away.

The other pic shows an example of the needles on these trees.

B8CDDFFF-692D-408E-B2EE-2441BEF11CE2.jpeg


131A75AF-FCF9-4F3D-9673-F1BD1F679E3F.jpeg
 

Malbrown

Draftee
Mar 22, 2016
1
7
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Can’t see how he has a case. If he wrote to the paper using his own name, and this was just quoted in the book, where is the problem? I thought Debi was very careful not to link the letter writer with “the businessman”.

Glad I bought the ebook & downloaded it!

View attachment 1226016
Hi, just thought i'd let you know i just bought a paperback of it from Kimberley Bookshop in Western Australia. $34.99
 

PenfoldsFan

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Mar 4, 2015
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Next stop – West Tce cemetery.

As per my previous post showing the old map, I arrived to find that there are indeed a plethora of pine trees within 50m of the old mortuary at West Tce cemetery. What’s more, the trees (Aleppo pines and one other species) drop needles and cones prodigiously. And they are genuine pine needles.

The site of the old mortuary had its own gate for entry and exit. And to top it off, it was decommissioned that about the time of Neil’s murder. And one more thing. It was directly opposite the Elephant and Castle Hotel. This hotel was bought and owned by Abe Saffron. Saffron also owned Patches, the Mars Bar and the Australia Hotel. He was a prolific importer of porn and made his financial way in sex and vice. He was known to blackmail people by filming them in compromising situations. He was also allegedly connected to Lionel Murphy, who is alleged to have visited Derrance Stevenson’s house on the night of his murder.

This picture shows the site of the old mortuary. The pine trees are behind the photographer, about 50m away.

The other pic shows an example of the needles on these trees.

View attachment 1246772

View attachment 1246773
Awesome work Squawk!

I tell ya what, if you haven't hit the nail on the head with this post then you sure could be excused for it as thats a hell of a lot of coincidence.
 

Punk Rooster 16

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Jul 16, 2017
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Is there a way we could have all of the photos in this thread linked to one area?
im not sure how this would be done, but would be great to see images, without scrolling through every page (or maybe there’s a way to do this I don’t know about?)
 

Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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Is there a way we could have all of the photos in this thread linked to one area?
im not sure how this would be done, but would be great to see images, without scrolling through every page (or maybe there’s a way to do this I don’t know about?)
Yes, I've been devising something over the last week albeit rather loosely. A 'no discussion' media thread I think might work for now.
 

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