Unsolved The Family Murders

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Kurve

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Dec 27, 2016
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Western Bulldogs
Use this thread to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

 
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AdelaideGT

Senior List
Sep 1, 2020
286
488
AFL Club
Adelaide
Players in Grenfell St was built on the site of the old Sturt Arcade Hotel (where I worked briefly).

Then when I worked in Wyatt House, across the road, I used to like having a post-work beer poured for me by Sean Rehn at Players.
 

susurrar

Team Captain
Apr 30, 2018
524
1,570
AFL Club
North Melbourne
after reading the O'Brien book and this thread (great work everyone), im mostly interested in three people: Mr R, MGL, Clocker.

MGL is a confusing one. i cant find out what he did for a living. was he the second doctor? there's very little on him in here, but ive seen it suggested that he was a major player. is this only coming from the "Dissected" ebook? how credible is that book, by the way? i got the impression that it wasnt a very good book but posters were being polite about it because one of the authors briefly showed up in this thread.

are MGL and Mr R still together? someone earlier in the thread was saying that Mr R is with a much younger partner now.

i wonder what Mr R is like. hes often described as skinny in here, but i could have sworn i saw one poster say that he was fat (can't find the post now). google says his shop is open tomorrow. if a normal looking person wanting to take a look at the clocks just rolled up there at 11:00 and knocked on the door, he'd ignore them? earlier in the thread, i think someone said Mr R would only need to sell one clock a week and he'd be doing very well. im not really in the clock scene, but ive got serious doubts that he'd even be selling that much. i know that his likely reasons for keeping the shop have been covered.

it seems like people know who Clocker is. hes named in here and on another website. not sure if his name is suppressed. hes pretty online compared to the others. seems very happy. he would be relatively young today, even quite a bit younger than Mr B? he isnt named in the O'Brien book but there is a passage about him. O'Brien says he interviewed him for four hours and didnt learn anything new. thats it. maybe thats him again in the final scene of the O'Brien book. it sounds like the "Dissected" book implies that he was much more involved. maybe i should read it.

what kind of lives do you think these people have gone on to live? in his interview with Debi Marshall, didnt Turtur say he hadnt thought about any of this in 20 years?

sorry about the scattered thoughts and questions.
 
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Bits

Team Captain
Oct 31, 2019
375
1,656
AFL Club
Adelaide
MGL isn’t/wasn’t a doctor. He is mysterious indeed. I think some sort of public service/admin role is the best guess so far. He and Mr R still live together. Whether this is a matter of convenience, or still a romantic partnership, possibly with extra people coming and going, is not certain.

Dissected needs a good proof reader and editor. It professes to be the book that will explain everything, even to those unfamiliar with the case. It doesn’t. It assumes prior knowledge, repeats itself, spells names differently - Lewis Turtur is variously Louie, Lewy, Louis, Lewis. It was written with the best of intentions but is certainly not the definitive work on the case.

Mr R is skinny. There’s a photo of him hidden away online if you know where to look. As for the clock shop, my understanding is that you can call the phone number on the shop door and he will come over and open up for you. His home is only minutes away.

Clocker surely has much more info than he is saying, be it fact or rumour or hearsay. He worked at the shop for years, and was trusted to drive the fancy cars and be a delivery driver for young men. No way he knows nothing. But he has settled down with his husband/partner and they run a business together, and he seems happy enough. And I’m not condoning it for a single second, but he would have been a teen or in his early 20s back then. If the older, successful, doctor/lawyer/teacher/business types around him were behaving in a particular way, and it was just accepted in those circles, it would have been easy for him to just go along with it.
 

johnymac1

Team Captain
Nov 6, 2019
437
593
AFL Club
Adelaide
after reading the O'Brien book and this thread (great work everyone), im mostly interested in three people: Mr R, MGL, Clocker.

MGL is a confusing one. i cant find out what he did for a living. was he the second doctor? there's very little on him in here, but ive seen it suggested that he was a major player. is this only coming from the "Dissected" ebook? how credible is that book, by the way? i got the impression that it wasnt a very good book but posters were being polite about it because one of the authors briefly showed up in this thread.

are MGL and Mr R still together? someone earlier in the thread was saying that Mr R is with a much younger partner now.

i wonder what Mr R is like. hes often described as skinny in here, but i could have sworn i saw one poster say that he was fat (can't find the post now). google says his shop is open tomorrow. if a normal looking person wanting to take a look at the clocks just rolled up there at 11:00 and knocked on the door, he'd ignore them? earlier in the thread, i think someone said Mr R would only need to sell one clock a week and he'd be doing very well. im not really in the clock scene, but ive got serious doubts that he'd even be selling that much. i know that his likely reasons for keeping the shop have been covered.

it seems like people know who Clocker is. hes named in here and on another website. not sure if his name is suppressed. hes pretty online compared to the others. seems very happy. he would be relatively young today, even quite a bit younger than Mr B? he isnt named in the O'Brien book but there is a passage about him. O'Brien says he interviewed him for four hours and didnt learn anything new. thats it. maybe thats him again in the final scene of the O'Brien book. it sounds like the "Dissected" book implies that he was much more involved. maybe i should read it.

what kind of lives do you think these people have gone on to live? in his interview with Debi Marshall, didnt Turtur say he hadnt thought about any of this in 20 years?

sorry about the scattered thoughts and questions.
Ive encountered two of the family, purely by chance. Mr B at his work places over the years.
Clocker: I went looking to buy an old clock once, and presented to this locked-up shop. wasn't allowed entry, I guess i don't look like "clock type"
My B had worried eyes and slightly nervous disposition.
 

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Bits

Team Captain
Oct 31, 2019
375
1,656
AFL Club
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1641103109658.jpeg
 

Bits

Team Captain
Oct 31, 2019
375
1,656
AFL Club
Adelaide
Ive encountered two of the family, purely by chance. Mr B at his work places over the years.
Clocker: I went looking to buy an old clock once, and presented to this locked-up shop. wasn't allowed entry, I guess i don't look like "clock type"
My B had worried eyes and slightly nervous disposition.

Hi, hope you don’t mind me asking, but how did you know it was Mr B?
 

Dell43

Debutant
Dec 31, 2020
81
89
AFL Club
Collingwood
Police had 4 witnesses, 2 on Ward st. and others on Margaret st. Still unclear exactly where abduction was.

Further to my earlier post (2078) in either February or March 1993 a friend told me his partner was a police witness in the RK case. He told me she heard the abduction and also provided a description of the car used. He told me that police found the car which was sold after the abduction and the boot had been re-painted. Young Blood was published in 2002 and confirms the story about the car but I was expecting the author to expand on the information this witness provided however there was no new information. I assumed is was a case of police keeping information to themselves so they can check future witness statements. I'm still trying to find the address of this witness which I'm hoping will pin-point location of RK abduction.
Further to post No.2099 I have finally tracked down the address of the person who witnessed the car being driven away after the abduction of Richard Kelvin, the witness lived at 23 Margaret St. North Adelaide. This address is confusing as the front of the house is 54 Ward St. and the side 23 Margaret St. I'm assuming the house has been divided, you can see No.23 on the fence in the bin photo.

1641334319445.png



Police reported Richard being abducted near the intersection of Peppertree Lane and Margaret St. The question is how he ended up at this location as it's not the most direct or fastest route to his house. Image below shows the most direct route from the bus stop to Richard's house.

1641253209127.png


When Von Einem was presented with overwhelming evidence that Richard had been at his house Von Einem gave Detectives Kipling & O'Brien the alibi that he was driving along O'Connell St. turned left onto Ward St. and then left on Boulton St. At the intersection of Boulton and Marian St. he almost collided with Richard. He then claimed Richard approached the driver's side window and engaged in a conversation resting his arms and hands on the roof, Richard then voluntarily got into the car which continued to Archer St. and then turned right. Von Einem's alibi was most probably to cover his tracks in case he was seen in Boulton St. so we can assume this interaction happened (but not as he explained) and also to explain why Richards fingerprints may be found on the roof of his car when he was trying to stop himself being dragged in at a different location.

From the information we have my theory is the first abduction attempt was at the intersection of Boulton and Marian St. Richard managed to escape but his path to Ward St. was blocked so he ran into the flats knowing there is a path at the back which allows access to Peppertree Lane, then Margaret St. and then Ward St. Von Einem drives to the end of Boulton St. turns right onto Archer St. and then right onto Margaret St. The second abduction attempt is near the intersection of Peppertree Lane and Margaret St. where Richard is overpowered and dragged into the drivers side of Von Einem's car.

Image 1 - Richards movement in RED and Von Einem's in BLACK.
Image 2 - Intersection of Peppertree and Margaret St. 2007.
Image 3 - O'Brien & Kipling 1983, intersection of Peppertree & Margaret St. in the background


1641254262126.png


1641254327317.png


1641254356399.png


Most people seem to think Von Einem saw Richard walking to the bus stop or noticed him at the bus stop on O'Connell St. and the abduction was a spur of the moment decision, if that was the case consider the following;

- Von Einem's MO was to persuade victims into his car and then offer them a spiked drink. Why the sudden change of MO and escalation to abduction?
- If the abduction was a spur of the moment decision how did Von Einem convince the others in the car to participate in such a serious offence?
- After the failed abduction at Marian & Boulton St. why didn't Von Einem leave the area? How did he know Richard would be at the intersection of Peppertree and Margaret St?

Rather than the abduction being a spur of the moment decision maybe it was a planned event! Maybe Von Einem had noticed Richard earlier that day or on a previous occasion and was stalking him, remembering Von Einem was a frequent visitor to the area. Von Einem seemed to have knowledge of the area and the route Richard would take to get home. He had other willing participants in the car, maybe one to help him overpower Richard and the second as a driver. There was evidence Richard was struck over the head, was Von Einem deliberately carrying a weapon to assault Richard?
 
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Steve The Dude

Left Right Out
Feb 9, 2021
57
112
AFL Club
Adelaide
Further to post No.2099 I have finally tracked down the address of the person who witnessed the car being driven away after the abduction of Richard Kelvin, the witness lived at 23 Margaret St. North Adelaide. This address is confusing as the front of the house is 54 Ward St. and the side 23 Margaret St. I'm assuming the house has been divided, you can see No.23 on the fence in the bin photo.

View attachment 1305387


Police reported Richard being abducted near the intersection of Peppertree Lane and Margaret St. The question is how he ended up at this location as it's not the most direct or fastest route to his house. Image below shows the most direct route from the bus stop to Richard's house.

View attachment 1305369

When Von Einem was presented with overwhelming evidence that Richard had been at his house Von Einem gave Detectives Kipling & O'Brien the alibi that he was driving along O'Connell St. turned left onto Ward St. and then left on Boulton St. At the intersection of Boulton and Marian St. he almost collided with Richard. He then claimed Richard approached the driver's side window and engaged in a conversation resting his arms and hands on the roof, Richard then voluntarily got into the car which continued to Archer St. and then turned right. Von Einem's alibi was most probably to cover his tracks in case he was seen in Boulton St. so we can assume this interaction happened and also to explain why Richards fingerprints may be found on the roof of his car when he was trying to stop himself being dragged in at a different location.

From the information we have my theory is the first abduction attempt was at the intersection of Boulton and Marian St. Richard managed to escape but his path to Ward St. was blocked so he ran into the flats knowing there is a path at the back which allows access to Peppertree Lane, then Margaret St. and then Ward St. Von Einem drives to the end of Boulton St. turns right onto Archer St. and then right onto Margaret St. The second abduction attempt is near the intersection of Peppertree Lane and Margaret St. where Richard is overpowered and dragged into the drivers side of Von Einem's car.

Image 1 - Richards movement in RED and Von Einem's in BLACK.
Image 2 - Intersection of Peppertree and Margaret St. 2007.
Image 3 - O'Brien & Kipling 1983, intersection of Peppertree & Margaret St. in the background


View attachment 1305372

View attachment 1305374

View attachment 1305375

Most people seem to think Von Einem saw Richard walking to the bus stop or noticed him at the bus stop on O'Connell St. and the abduction was a spur of the moment decision, if that was the case consider the following;

- Von Einem's MO was to persuade victims into his car and then offer them a spiked drink. Why the sudden change of MO and escalation to abduction?
- If the abduction was a spur of the moment decision how did Von Einem convince the others in the car to participate in such a serious offence?
- After the failed abduction at Marian & Boulton St. why didn't Von Einem leave the area? How did he know Richard would be at the intersection of Peppertree and Margaret St?

Rather than the abduction being a spur of the moment decision maybe it was a planned event! Maybe Von Einem had noticed Richard earlier that day or on a previous occasion and was stalking him, remembering Von Einem was a frequent visitor to the area. Von Einem seemed to have knowledge of the area and the route Richard would take to get home. He had other willing participants in the car, maybe one to help him overpower Richard and the second as a driver. There was evidence Richard was struck over the head, was Von Einem deliberately carrying a weapon to assault Richard?

(1) I agree with you as to the likely pre-meditation of the Richard Kelvin abduction, and wonder whether BSvE was 'fulfilling a pre-order' for Richard Kelvin, either for 'turdburglary' purposes, or to get at Richard's father by traumatising him with the heinous murder of his son Richard, or for both reasons.
(2) I am curious as to these so-called 'witnesses'. Did any of them immediately dial 000 to report a violent altercation between a pedestrian teenage boy
and a carload of violent homosexual turdburglars which resulted in a violent abduction of the teenage boy? .... or did they become 'witnesses' after the cops did a neighbourhood doorknock campaign and they said something along the lines of "... oi yeah, now that you mention it, I did see/hear a violent altercation between a teenage boy and a carload of weirdoes who then violently abducted the teenage boy, but did'nt think anything of it and forgot all about it until the police came knocking on my door ....."
 
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binanceSA

Draftee
Sep 13, 2021
2
2
AFL Club
Adelaide
SA court orders pedophile Robert William Symonds be placed under an extended supervision order but not electronically monitored

A paroled pedophile who claims he was framed by the so-called “Family” murderers will be strictly supervised for two more years – but has been spared electronic monitoring.

On Tuesday, the Supreme Court declared Robert William Symonds – known as “Mother Goose” due to his distinctive walk – liable to an extended supervision order.

Symonds has twice stood trial over child sex offending – once being acquitted, and once being convicted.

In both trials, Symonds claimed an accomplice of murderer Bevan Spencer von Einem had framed him for the alleged offending.

Between trials, he was named as a suspected child sex predator during the Mullighan Inquiry, prompting a state government bid to have him placed on an extended supervision order.

Despite Symonds having completed both his prison term and his non-parole period, the court on Tuesday ordered he be subject to parole-like conditions until December 2023.

Justice David Peek warned Symonds that any breach of the conditions could see him jailed, but noted he had not imposed every restriction sought by the State Government.

Notably, the government’s request that Symonds be subject to 24-hour electronic monitoring was not included in the conditions.

“You are not to contact, communicate with or associate with anyone under the age of 18 years (or) offer accommodation to them,” Justice Peek told Symonds.

“You are not to loiter, without reasonable excuse, at or within the vicinity of schools, public toilets or playgrounds.

“If a member of the Parole Board or a police officer suspects you have disobeyed your conditions … you may be brought back to this court and detained in custody.”
 

Ivanovich

Draftee
Nov 26, 2021
3
13
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I told my story to Debi Marshall as I was pretty angry that Chief Justice John Bray recommended to my mother that Gino Gambardella was the chiropractor I should see for sore back only to be sexually assaulted by him one month before Alan Barnes was murdered. I was 22 at the time.
 
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Dell43

Debutant
Dec 31, 2020
81
89
AFL Club
Collingwood
(1) I agree with you as to the likely pre-meditation of the Richard Kelvin abduction, and wonder whether BSvE was 'fulfilling a pre-order' for Richard Kelvin, either for 'turdburglary' purposes, or to get at Richard's father by traumatising him with the heinous murder of his son Richard, or for both reasons.
(2) I am curious as to these so-called 'witnesses'. Did any of them immediately dial 000 to report a violent altercation between a pedestrian teenage boy
and a carload of violent homosexual turdburglars which resulted in a violent abduction of the teenage boy? .... or did they become 'witnesses' after the cops did a neighbourhood doorknock campaign and they said something along the lines of "... oi yeah, now that you mention it, I did see/hear a violent altercation between a teenage boy and a carload of weirdoes who then violently abducted the teenage boy, but did'nt think anything of it and forgot all about it until the police came knocking on my door ....."
Steve
In response to your second point the attached article may provide more clarity. In relation to the person I spoke to I'm not sure if they contacted police but they were very traumatised about what they witnessed and that was 10 years after the event.

Court Image.PNG
 

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