Unsolved The Family Murders

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Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...
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Truckosaurus said:
"I didn't kill them, I just raped them I swear!"



What's SA's history with a statute of limitations on indictable offences? Even if he confessed he might not be able to be charged.
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There is no statute of limitations on murder
 
EvansHodges77 said:
Can anyone tell me what is going on with Dr Stephen Woodards case?
Last thing I could find is that his suppression order was denied, and he was on bail for the rape of a 14 yr old boy in the 1980s...this was in 2011???
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Good question. The result of these charges against Dr Stephen Woodards seemed to be wiped from the Internet.
 

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GreyCrow said:
Stevenson murdered June 4 1979

Alan Barnes murdered after June 16 (body found June 24 , missing since 17 June) http://netk.net.au/FamilyMurders/FamilyMurders7.asp

I had not heard nor considered this either

Coroners report says Noctec was found in his system.
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This link has a good archive of reports about the case Crow. Do you know what happened in 2008 when they picked up key suspects and acquaintances of von Eimen for DNA testing? Did it not match the DNA they had from the bodies?

Also the surgery that was performed on Barnes is diabolical. Almost seems like it was thought up in Mengele's concentration camps!

However it would have had to be performed by an expert surgeon (and not the Dr that was charged and freed for on of the murders). This should have narrowed the subject pool considerable. Were any of Adelaide's expert surgeons suspected or charged?

The quote strongly suggests von Eimen knew exactly what was going to happen to Barnes, so does von Eimen talk about that in his interview?

In 1989, a key witness - one of von Einem's former close associates - provided detectives with a statement alleging the businessman met von Einem after Alan Barnes had been picked up and drugged. The witness said after von Einem and he had picked Barnes up, von Einem stopped and rang the businessman from a telephone box on Main North Rd. They then drove to the "Number One" gay beat at Jolly's Boathouse, opposite the Torrens Parade Ground. Once there - with an unconscious Barnes in the vehicle - they met the businessman and von Einem chatted with him for a short time. The witness claims von Einem had then asked him if he wanted "to watch him do some surgery on this guy". The witness, who died in Sydney several years ago, said he did not go with the pair because he did not like the businessman.

 
shellyg said:
The Unresolved in the link I posted above researched Woodards as well and couldn't find anything. If they can't find it, I reckon there's nothing there.
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He was on bail and about to face charges for the rape of a 14 year old boy.

However then there is no indication of if he was found guilty, acquitted or something else happened.

Very strange that there is nothing after that 2011 report about being on bail for rape charges that gives an indication what happened in the trial or what happened if the trial didn't go ahead for any reason.
 
BlueE said:
This link has a good archive of reports about the case Crow. Do you know what happened in 2008 when they picked up key suspects and acquaintances of von Eimen for DNA testing? Did it not match the DNA they had from the bodies?

Also the surgery that was performed on Barnes is diabolical. Almost seems like it was thought up in Mengele's concentration camps!

However it would have had to be performed by an expert surgeon (and not the Dr that was charged and freed for on of the murders). This should have narrowed the subject pool considerable. Were any of Adelaide's expert surgeons suspected or charged?

The quote strongly suggests von Eimen knew exactly what was going to happen to Barnes, so does von Eimen talk about that in his interview?

In 1989, a key witness - one of von Einem's former close associates - provided detectives with a statement alleging the businessman met von Einem after Alan Barnes had been picked up and drugged. The witness said after von Einem and he had picked Barnes up, von Einem stopped and rang the businessman from a telephone box on Main North Rd. They then drove to the "Number One" gay beat at Jolly's Boathouse, opposite the Torrens Parade Ground. Once there - with an unconscious Barnes in the vehicle - they met the businessman and von Einem chatted with him for a short time. The witness claims von Einem had then asked him if he wanted "to watch him do some surgery on this guy". The witness, who died in Sydney several years ago, said he did not go with the pair because he did not like the businessman.

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I was not aware of the level of skill required. Yes what happened to Alan was diabolical.

I do see a logic bomb in the quoted passage. Either the witness misheard Von Einem or Von Einem himself performed the surgery. Or alternatively it was a turn of phrase.
 
GreyCrow said:
I was not aware of the level of skill required. Yes what happened to Alan was diabolical.

I do see a logic bomb in the quoted passage. Either the witness misheard Von Einem or Von Einem himself performed the surgery. Or alternatively it was a turn of phrase.
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Worth asking von Eimen more about it then. The surgery as described for Alan Barnes was something well above normal medical Dr training.

There wouldn't have been many specialist surgeons in Adelaide that could have done that and when you add sicko, pedo to that ... ?
 
BlueE said:
There wouldn't have been many specialist surgeons in Adelaide that could have done that and when you add sicko, pedo to that ... ?
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There were two doctors, a chiropractor (bone guy) and a bookmaker as associates who back then probably had contacts in the abbattoirs. IMO any boner could have done it.

Who knows how much practice whoever did it had and how many weren't found? It's my understanding the dissected were only located because whoever threw them into the water was sloppy, missing the current in the deep hitting the bank shallows. It's a contradiction, the package so efficient where disposal was very untidy.
 
BlueE said:
Worth asking von Eimen more about it then. The surgery as described for Alan Barnes was something well above normal medical Dr training.

There wouldn't have been many specialist surgeons in Adelaide that could have done that and when you add sicko, pedo to that ... ?
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Alan Barnes? are you confusing with Mark Langley?
or am I getting it confused?
Whilst specialist surgeons may be few, the 'procedure', whatever it was akin to a bowel resection, may not necessarily have been performed specifically by a specialist ... thinking outside of that square, in any theatre there are professional staff aplenty with varying degrees of qualification who regularly observe and assist such surgeries ... I would go as far as to say there are some who'd be more than capable, or who would at least consider themselves (in dire circumstances) to be capable of either finishing up, or replicating an entire procedure that they had previously witnessed
(eg. student doctors, anesthetists, AND nursing staff ... perhaps even paramedics in much rarer situations)


imho
 
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BlueE said:
He was on bail and about to face charges for the rape of a 14 year old boy.

However then there is no indication of if he was found guilty, acquitted or something else happened.

Very strange that there is nothing after that 2011 report about being on bail for rape charges that gives an indication what happened in the trial or what happened if the trial didn't go ahead for any reason.
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Considering He still practices as a Doctor in Maroubra NSW, He probably wasn't found guilty.
 
shellyg said:
There were two doctors, a chiropractor (bone guy) and a bookmaker as associates who back then probably had contacts in the abbattoirs. IMO any boner could have done it.

Who knows how much practice whoever did it had and how many weren't found? It's my understanding the dissected were only located because whoever threw them into the water was sloppy, missing the current in the deep hitting the bank shallows. It's a contradiction, the package so efficient where disposal was very untidy.
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While the different bodies were cut up they involved different levels of skill from difficult and neat disarticultions and dissections to a chainsaw being used. In the trial for Dr Peter Millhouse for the murder of Neil Muir. Millhouse said the skill required in cutting up Muir's body was well beyond him and I believe him. An expert surgeon gave evidence and with his description this is an expert and experienced surgeon's work. If there ever was a reason to be an expert at hands, arms and legs to be dis articulated, I can't think of any.

Robert Britten-Jones, surgeon, of North Adelaide, said a number of sections of the body had been extremely neatly dissected. The disarticulation of the hands, which was a particularly difficult procedure because of the numerous ligaments in close proximity supporting the joints, indicated a definite knowledge of anatomy. It would have required skill in some degree to deal with such small joints in a compressed situation

Further anatomical knowledge had been indicated in the dissection of the hip joints. A noticeable feature in the dismemberment of the hip joints had been the absence of any score marks on the surface of the balls of the thigh bones. This was significant because it indicated a neatness, skill and anatomical knowledge in freeing the balls of the thigh bones from their sockets without producing score marks or cutting the surfaces.


Not a contradiction if someone else was disposing of the bodies by throwing them over a bridge.
 
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imho said:
Alan Barnes? are you confusing with Mark Langley?
or am I getting it confused?
Whilst specialist surgeons may be few, the 'procedure', whatever it was akin to a bowel resection, may not necessarily have been performed specifically by a specialist ... thinking outside of that square, in any theatre there are professional staff aplenty with varying degrees of qualification who regularly observe and assist such surgeries ... I would go as far as to say there are some who'd be more than capable, or who would at least consider themselves (in dire circumstances) to be capable of either finishing up, or replicating an entire procedure that they had previously witnessed
(eg. student doctors, anesthetists, AND nursing staff ... perhaps even paramedics in much rarer situations)


imho
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To be honest it's a while since I read through an account of all the injuries and of the way the bodies were cut up so I could easily have got confused between the men. I don't particulary want to go and read them again!

It may have been Neil Muir's body that was the most expertly cut up, not sure.
 

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BlueE said:
While the different bodies were cut up they involved different levels of skill from difficult and neat disarticultions and dissections to a chainsaw being used. In the trial for Dr Peter Millhouse for the murder of Neil Muir. Millhouse said the skill required in cutting up Muir's body was well beyond him and I believe him. An expert surgeon gave evidence and with his description this is an expert and experienced surgeon's work, if there ever was a reason to done this before and I can't think of any.
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A hacksaw was used apparently, it's essentially the same thing as a bone saw. Suspect the above take came from the defence? Would agree though it was one of them but any one of them could have done it. Either of the two doctors but just saying as an example, Katherine Knight skinned her husband in one clean piece no nicks. Apologies if that reads gross.

BlueE said:
dissection of the hip joints.
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Enter the chiropractor, Gino Gambardella? He was at Woodards house the night he was shot in the head.

BlueE said:
Not a contradiction if someone else was disposing of the bodies by throwing them over a bridge.
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Yep. ;)
 
shellyg said:
A hacksaw was used apparently, it's essentially the same thing as a bone saw. Suspect the above take came from the defence? Would agree though it was one of them but any one of them could have done it. Either of the two doctors but just saying as an example, Katherine Knight skinned her husband in one clean piece no nicks. Apologies if that reads gross.



Enter the chiropractor, Gino Gambardella? He was at Woodards house the night he was shot in the head.



Yep. ;)
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Hacksaw in one case I believe. The description in Muir's case was expert level surgery. While the Chiro may have a functional level knowledge of anatomy, I would be very surprised if it involved any training in dissection of limbs or other surgeries. There was no training for Chiros in Australia at all until recently, 15 -20 years ago.

However Gambardella wasn't he only one at Stevenson's place the night he died. Totally baffling and inexcusable that Elliott Johnson QC for the defence didn't think to bring that up as well as challenge any of the flimsy and now discredited forensic evidence.
 
BlueE said:
Hacksaw in one case I believe. The description in Muir's case was expert level surgery. While the Chiro may have a functional level knowledge of anatomy, I would be very surprised if it involved any training in dissection of limbs or other surgeries. There was no training for Chiros in Australia at all until recently, 15 -20 years ago.

However Gambardella wasn't he only one at Stevenson's place the night he died. Totally baffling and inexcusable that Elliott Johnson QC for the defence didn't think to bring that up as well as challenge any of the flimsy and now discredited forensic evidence.
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One of the men was allegedly former Attorney-General and Judge Lionel Murphy

trove.nla.gov.au

Murphy visit to death house alleged - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 14 Apr 1991

ADELAIDE: A man jailed for Adelaide's so-called "body in the freezer" murder in 1979 ...
trove.nla.gov.au trove.nla.gov.au
 
Turtur says He met Von Einem through Brian Grant a mutual acquaintance. Brian Gant was one of the names under suppression. Turtur also says He had sex with Von Einem somewhere in the Adelaide Hills in the 70s , was later told by police it was close to where a body was found and that He gave Evidence against Von Einem around 1999 when Von Einem was trying to get Parole.
 
ameen_ssnp said:
Turtur says He met Von Einem through Brian Grant a mutual acquaintance. Brian Gant was one of the names under suppression. Turtur also says He had sex with Von Einem somewhere in the Adelaide Hills in the 70s , was later told by police it was close to where a body was found and that He gave Evidence against Von Einem around 1999 when Von Einem was trying to get Parole.
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Listened to the latest podcast last night, while Turtur and his little gang of drag queens were doing really bad things I believe him when he says they were considered the lowest of the low, the junkie bottom feeders in the gay scene and that von Einem did not just swing in their circle. That von Einem was essentially a pills dealer with lofty connections, that he was passive in bed and it's Turtur's view von Einem definitely did not act alone.

I don't really want to be seen as sticking up for Turtur but he didn't have to speak out and he is being pretty brave in doing so. His insights are important.
 
shellyg said:
Listened to the latest podcast last night, while Turtur and his little gang of drag queens were doing really bad things I believe him when he says they were considered the lowest of the low, the junkie bottom feeders in the gay scene and that von Einem did not just swing in their circle. That von Einem was essentially a pills dealer with lofty connections, that he was passive in bed and it's Turtur's view von Einem definitely did not act alone.

I don't really want to be seen as sticking up for Turtur but he didn't have to speak out and he is being pretty brave in doing so. His insights are important.
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I agree. He is probably the key to more victims coming forward and it’s the victims who are the missing link between what we know happened and police being able to charge people.

Turtur knows far more than he’s letting on though.
 
BlueE said:
Don't have Foxtel. What did you think?
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Yeah episode 1 was all about the body in the freezer case. Episode 2 goes into the family murders & episode 3. Ive always had the assumption that David Szach was innocent after reading about the case. After watching Episode 1 im not so sure anymore.
 
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