Unsolved The Family Murders

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Kurve

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Of interest: Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

 
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Kurve

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He is, should I say was, one of the peripheral suspects. Not a main player (bve, mrs r, mrs b, rdb, sgw) but known to be participant.

He was investigated I'm sure but so were many others. I have to ask again, how do you know he was involved in giving stupefying drugs to unwitting young men so he could rape them?
 

Loony Juice

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He was investigated I'm sure but so were many others. I have to ask again, how do you know he was involved in giving stupefying drugs to unwitting young men so he could rape them?
If I had any shred of evidence on any of these maggots, the cops would get it.
It is known that for periods of time bve and dsd rented units/flats/townhouses/houses, in addition to their primary places of residence for the express purpose of using for their nefarious activities.
Even drawing a long bow, and suggesting dsd wasn't involved is a stretch in my opinion.
And even in the remote possibility that were the case, that dsd wasn't involved in vile acts with bve, that makes him akin to a priest who has not committed sexual abuse, but has sheltered those that did/do. And I'm hypothesizing here, as it's pretty clear they were close friends who enjoyed 'rough trade'
 

Kurve

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Have forensic methods updated? Apparently worked for Kuklinski until he got sloppy.



One of the victims Kuklinski shot, was found 15 months later. It seems the only reason they realised he'd been kept on ice was because he was found before he thawed out.
 

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Loony Juice

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Don't think that was going to be enough. He's a depraved piece of filth too. He most definitely participated with bve in drugging and abusing victims, maybe not cruising with the trans and picking the victims up, but participating no doubt in their vile acts.
FTFY Kurve
 

Kurve

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If I had any shred of evidence on any of these maggots, the cops would get it.
It is known that for periods of time bve and dsd rented units/flats/townhouses/houses, in addition to their primary places of residence for the express purpose of using for their nefarious activities.
Even drawing a long bow, and suggesting dsd wasn't involved is a stretch in my opinion.
And even in the remote possibility that were the case, that dsd wasn't involved in vile acts with bve, that makes him akin to a priest who has not committed sexual abuse, but has sheltered those that did/do. And I'm hypothesizing here, as it's pretty clear they were close friends who enjoyed 'rough trade'

The only independent witness account I've seen that BVE even knew DSD was the retelling of seeing BVE showing DSD abuse images and DSD exclaiming 'ooh that's evil' and that he was a witness at the trial I presume, testifying to BVEs hair appointment.
 

Loony Juice

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The only independent witness account I've seen that BVE even knew DSD was the retelling of seeing BVE showing DSD abuse images and DSD exclaiming 'ooh that's evil' and that he was a witness at the trial I presume, testifying to BVEs hair appointment.
The very same dsd that had been dyeing bve's prematurely greying/whitening hair for many years?
The very same dsd that had been friends with bve for many years?
That dsd.
 

Loony Juice

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The only independent witness account I've seen that BVE even knew DSD was the retelling of seeing BVE showing DSD abuse images and DSD exclaiming 'ooh that's evil' and that he was a witness at the trial I presume, testifying to BVEs hair appointment.
Also in the very same story about the Trevor Peters diary entries, where bve is showing dsd photos, it mentions dsd telling Trevor P that he and bve rented premises, outside of their primary residences, together for 'weekends'
 

Kurve

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Also in the very same story about the Trevor Peters diary entries, where bve is showing dsd photos, it mentions dsd telling Trevor P that he and bve rented premises, outside of their primary residences, together for 'weekends'

Yeh I've read the diary entries. If BVE had access to a shared place with DSD, why would he need to take Richard Kelvin to his own house in Paradise and other drugged victims over time to the share house where Pru and Lewis lived? DSD doesn't make an appearance at these times, the 'businessman' did. I don't recall Mr. B naming DSD either?
 

Kurve

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Anybody know if Denis St Denis was a witness for the defence or the prosecution? I'm thinking with the hair snips found inside Richard's jeans, DSD was probablty secured for the prosecution to support their case that it was consistent with the haircut BVE had the day after Richard was abducted.
 

SquiffyRae

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Also as point of interest to some, I was researching clocks shops in the inner southern suburbs as one does. I noticed a certain clock shop, whose business name includes the name of a person and decided to check it out. There are some goo gle reviews on there which are quite amusing from the last month, and they pertain to........well maybe check it out.

Now this I'm surprised with as usually said owner is extremely quick to jump on anything that might connect him to this case. His shop used to have an entry on either TripAdvisor or Yelp where there was a way to see deleted reviews and there was a single actual review that was kept up and the rest were all similar to what's on Google now.

What's interesting though is that a lot of the accounts posting those reviews do have a history and other reviews left by them seem to be genuine (even if they seem to mostly use google reviews to complain). So it's not just anonymous trolls doing it people seem to have genuinely found out his name despite his best efforts to hide it.

Odd that they'd be up there for over a month without either him or his legal team stepping in. Is mr businessman indisposed perhaps? He is older than BvE after all and BvE isn't exactly a spring chicken. Or has just been too lazy or forgetful to check google lately?
 

Loony Juice

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Yeh I've read the diary entries. If BVE had access to a shared place with DSD, why would he need to take Richard Kelvin to his own house in Paradise and other drugged victims over time to the share house where Pru and Lewis lived? DSD doesn't make an appearance at these times, the 'businessman' did. I don't recall Mr. B naming DSD either?
If I could answer that question, I'd be on the way to claiming the reward money on offer for these unsolved crimes.
Many times it is mentioned in the various sources of information available on this vile series of crimes, of the way in which bve socialised in different circles. In the sense of having multiple groups of friends/associates that whilst known to each other didn't interact.
The sharing of units/townhouses between dsd & bve may have been intermittent. But it happened.
Dsd is (was) one of bve's oldest and dearest friends, right up there with mr r.
 
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Loony Juice

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Now this I'm surprised with as usually said owner is extremely quick to jump on anything that might connect him to this case. His shop used to have an entry on either TripAdvisor or Yelp where there was a way to see deleted reviews and there was a single actual review that was kept up and the rest were all similar to what's on Google now.

What's interesting though is that a lot of the accounts posting those reviews do have a history and other reviews left by them seem to be genuine (even if they seem to mostly use google reviews to complain). So it's not just anonymous trolls doing it people seem to have genuinely found out his name despite his best efforts to hide it.

Odd that they'd be up there for over a month without either him or his legal team stepping in. Is mr businessman indisposed perhaps? He is older than BvE after all and BvE isn't exactly a spring chicken. Or has just been too lazy or forgetful to check google lately?
Yes, that's an interesting one. Could be one of a number of scenarios as you said. Sickness/ill health is a realistic possibility.
It may well be that he's accepted that people (and there's plenty of true crime buffs out there) know his name and the associated suspicions, shall we say, and he has long known himself he and his partner among others have gotten away with it, despite police knowing mostly who and what for decades.
 

Loony Juice

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Yeh I've read the diary entries. If BVE had access to a shared place with DSD, why would he need to take Richard Kelvin to his own house in Paradise and other drugged victims over time to the share house where Pru and Lewis lived? DSD doesn't make an appearance at these times, the 'businessman' did. I don't recall Mr. B naming DSD either?
Bve grew up (up to mid/late teens) in the suburb of Mile End.
Dsd Grew up in nearby Allenby Gardens.
They have been friends since they were early teenagers, if not earlier.
This is widely known and no breaking news.
As I stated dsd is right up there in bve friends, apart from only mr r and had known bve longer than mr r.
Again no breaking news there, pretty standard stuff for this gruesome series of crimes.
 

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DropBearess

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As we are all aware, the person known as "the businessman" has his name suppressed. This order is current and will continue until the suppression order is lifted.

I am guessing many of us know his name and business. There is a good laugh to be had should one happen to google recent reviews for the said name and business.

I won't post the link. I know it's funny, but please don't post it either.
 

Loony Juice

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The only independent witness account I've seen that BVE even knew DSD was the retelling of seeing BVE showing DSD abuse images and DSD exclaiming 'ooh that's evil' and that he was a witness at the trial I presume, testifying to BVEs hair appointment.
Denis St Denis
  • BVE's hairdresser friend
  • Had a salon in Hazelwood Park




  • His nickname was "Pussy"
  • BVE went to his salon and had his dyed the day after Kelvin went missing
  • Allegedly rented a unit with BVE in the inner eastern suburbs - maybe Norwood, Kent Town or Dulwich. Both lived with their mothers and needed a place to take young men/boys.
  • Diaries of one of his friends (Trevor Peters) were found that document suspicious discussions between BVE and St Denis, as well as the witnessing of photos of an unconscious Alan Barnes
  • Kelvin was in captivity for 5 weeks and in that time his hair had been cut. SAPOL believe this was St Denis
  • https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...y/news-story/eaf66c4823f20f55981177c02d2bb657
From post#411, November 4th 2019
 

Kurve

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Kelvin was in captivity for 5 weeks and in that time his hair had been cut. SAPOL believe this was St Denis

Back to the same question I've had that I haven't found answer to.

How did they know Richard's hair was cut?

Was it an assumption that it must have been cut because it hadn't grown the expected and approximate 2cm to an inch in the time he was missing? Or was it FAR shorter than it was when he was abducted?

The other question I have is, was his hair length raised at the trial?

I'm not asking you directly, I'm not sure anybody in here knows the answers.
 

Kurve

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Kelvin was in captivity for 5 weeks and in that time his hair had been cut. SAPOL believe this was St Denis

Also from Nigel Hunt at the Advertiser 2 April, 2008. We now know this last line isn't true as he's referring to Mr. B and it's been confirmed by Charlie and others that Mr. B didn't die. Who knows where the idea to kill Mr. B off came from. :rolleyes:


In 1989, a key witness – one of von Einem's former close associates – provided detectives with a statement alleging the businessman met von Einem after Alan Barnes had been picked up and drugged. The witness said after von Einem and he had picked Barnes up, von Einem stopped and rang the businessman from a telephone box on Main North Rd. They then drove to the "Number One" gay beat at Jolly's Boathouse, opposite the Torrens Parade Ground. Once there – with an unconscious Barnes in the vehicle – they met the businessman and von Einem chatted with him for a short time. The witness claims von Einem had then asked him if he wanted "to watch him do some surgery on this guy".

The witness, who died in Sydney several years ago, said he did not go with the pair because he did not like the businessman.
 

DropBearess

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Back to the same question I've had that I haven't found answer to.

How did they know Richard's hair was cut?

Was it an assumption that it must have been cut because it hadn't grown the expected and approximate 2cm to an inch in the time he was missing? Or was it FAR shorter than it was when he was abducted?

The other question I have is, was his hair length raised at the trial?

I'm not asking you directly, I'm not sure anybody in here knows the answers.

As far as l know, Richard's hair length wasn't raised at the trial. I can't find any references to it at all before 2014. I would think this evidence would have been quite sensational if it occurred during the trial but I could be absolutely wrong.

The first l heard of this was in February 2014, when Trevor Peter's diary was handed to police by a relative.

The hair issue is an interesting one. Studies have shown that a person's hair can fail to grow during extreme stress or illness. Or, as suggested, Richard's body could have been frozen for weeks. We need to remember who the S.A. Chief Forensic Pathologist was at this time.
 

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Kurve

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From post#411, November 4th 2019

Having just gone right through the article linked and checked post #411, I can't find anything that confirms SAPOL also believe Denis St Denis cut Richard's hair. It only refers to the diary entry.

The length of his hair at the time of autopsy is something they might have looked in to following up on the diary entries.

Peters states in the diary that a woman, whom he named and who was questioned by detectives during investigations, "said that she had been told Richard Kelvin had been held in a unit and that Denis St Denis had cut Kelvin's hair during that time. She said that several people had visited the unit while Kelvin was there''.
 

acermark

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As far as l know, Richard's hair length wasn't raised at the trial. I can't find any references to it at all before 2014. I would think this evidence would have been quite sensational if it occurred during the trial but I could be absolutely wrong.

The first l heard of this was in February 2014, when Trevor Peter's diary was handed to police by a relative.

The hair issue is an interesting one. Studies have shown that a person's hair can fail to grow during extreme stress or illness. Or, as suggested, Richard's body could have been frozen for weeks. We need to remember who the S.A. Chief Forensic Pathologist was at this time.
The 2014 article on Trevor Peters' diaries was the first time for me too that I had heard anything about Richard's hair being cut while being held captive. The most often published photo of Richard was taken about four weeks prior to him getting abducted, not sure if it would been long enough to have cut between then and 5/6/1983?

Also Trevor Holmes described Richard's hair as greasy on the Crime & Investigation Australia documentary when he recalled finding his body, perhaps it had some length?
 

Loony Juice

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Now this I'm surprised with as usually said owner is extremely quick to jump on anything that might connect him to this case. His shop used to have an entry on either TripAdvisor or Yelp where there was a way to see deleted reviews and there was a single actual review that was kept up and the rest were all similar to what's on Google now.

What's interesting though is that a lot of the accounts posting those reviews do have a history and other reviews left by them seem to be genuine (even if they seem to mostly use google reviews to complain). So it's not just anonymous trolls doing it people seem to have genuinely found out his name despite his best efforts to hide it.

Odd that they'd be up there for over a month without either him or his legal team stepping in. Is mr businessman indisposed perhaps? He is older than BvE after all and BvE isn't exactly a spring chicken. Or has just been too lazy or forgetful to check google lately?

I just noticed one of the reviews had been taken down, the one that mentions someone says hello.

One has been modified too. Not sure if that is the businessman himself, but I can't see how an online review with a name could be getting into legal territory?
 

GreyCrow

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You can play around as much as you want but this site wont allow any grey areas in regards to this person

Its been done to death and bringing it up again is only smart arsery

Lets drop this pretence nobody knows him and move on
 

DropBearess

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I just noticed one of the reviews had been taken down, the one that mentions someone says hello.

One has been modified too. Not sure if that is the businessman himself, but I can't see how an online review with a name could be getting into legal territory?

Saw that. Tehe. The family business remains unscathed.
 

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